6 ms·

More proof for anyone who needs it about the aims of the TikTok ban - We want proud American censorship, not commie Chinese ones

brookst 2y ago
I despise Facebook, but given a choice of US youth being indoctrinated by Facebook, by TikTok/CCP, or both… the choice is pretty clear. Sure, I’d like a “none of the above” option but that is not on the table. Wake me when it is.
- onetokeoverthe 2y ago
  none of the above is easy. craigslist used to have free personals, and escort ads.
- spencerflem 2y ago
  I'd like neither too, but at least it's nice to be able to pick instead of having the govt decide for me
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  Honestly, the choice is clear: the CCP is clearly not doing as much damage to our youth as our own companies are. Which is more important for U.S. youth to know about, Tienanmen Square or abortion, Winnie the Pooh or jury nullification? And that's just the censorship aspect of this; surveillance remains a bigger factor IMO. Which organization is more likely to be used by an American cop to track the ex-girlfriend they domestically abused: TikTok or Facebook? It seems like your entire argument here is just vague sinophobic hand-waving. Do you have even a single example of TickTock/CCP harming American youth that hasn't been done worse by US social media and government? To be clear, I'm not arguing that China is better than the US in any general way, I'm specifically making the claim that American government and social media harms Americans more than any other government or social media harms Americans.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
  Why is it clear that your life won't suffer more under domestic control than foreign control, other than reflexive jingoism? Domestic control has more direct levers and the gloves are off right now.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Why is it clear that your life won't suffer more under domestic control than foreign control, other than reflexive jingoism? Domestic control has more direct levers and the gloves are off right now. Because foreigners are even less accountable to Americans and even less interested in their well being than any domestic group? It just stands to reason, there's not even the weak ties of being members of the same group. I mean, to be a little outlandish: if there was a conflict, and some foreign adversary could transmit a mind virus to Americans that would cause them to go on murderous rampages and kill everyone, they'd probably do it. It'd be an instant win, and there'd be some sweet, sweet land to colonize afterwards.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > Because foreigners are even less accountable to Americans and even less interested in their well being than any domestic group? That is not necessarily true. The Hitlers and Putins of the world will happily sacrifice their own citizenry and their country's future for more power in the moment. It's entirely possible for some foreigners to hold more goodwill towards a country than its own leadership. > I mean, to be a little outlandish: if there was a conflict, and some foreign adversary could transmit a mind virus to Americans that would cause them to go on murderous rampages and kill everyone, they'd probably do it. It'd be an instant win, and there'd be some sweet, sweet land to colonize afterwards. Several countries are entirely capable of doing this with nukes.
      - tivert 2y ago
        > That is not necessarily true. The Hitlers and Putins of the world will happily sacrifice their own citizenry and their country's future for more power in the moment. Don't you think they'd be even more willing to sacrifice Americans or other foreigners? > Several countries are entirely capable of doing this with nukes. No, and you're kind of missing the point, which was the adversarial leader cares less about foreigners. Also: nukes are somewhat controlled with MAD, and they'd spoil that sweet, sweet land with fallout.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  That's not a choice. I can choose CenturyLink or Comcast, but neither actually gets me good internet at a reasonable price.
  - brookst 2y ago
    We’re not playing “in an ideal world”, we’re playing “in the world we have, do you want a foreign adversary controlling content”.
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      I trust them about as much as the domestic adversary controlling the content. And the Chinese have a harder time sending in the cops if they don't like what they see
- agnosticmantis 2y ago
  False dichotomy, when you could have both, and they can have non-overlapping censorship criteria. What one censors the other doesn't, and you get less censorship when there are more options available.
  - brookst 2y ago
    Great! So some US kids grow up with Chinese propaganda, and some with more milquetoast and fragmented corporate propaganda, and that’s a better world?
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      Yes- they can talk to each other and swap notes. It sounds like you're arguing for a great firewall type thing to make sure there's only approved non-propaganda content
50208 2y ago
There is a clear trajectory for Tik-Tok to be force sold to a Musk type who can bend it to conservative American disinformation, supposedly better than CCP disinformation?

brookst 2y ago

I despise Facebook, but given a choice of US youth being indoctrinated by Facebook, by TikTok/CCP, or both… the choice is pretty clear. Sure, I’d like a “none of the above” option but that is not on the table. Wake me when it is.

onetokeoverthe 2y ago
none of the above is easy. craigslist used to have free personals, and escort ads.
spencerflem 2y ago
I'd like neither too, but at least it's nice to be able to pick instead of having the govt decide for me
kerkeslager 2y ago
Honestly, the choice is clear: the CCP is clearly not doing as much damage to our youth as our own companies are. Which is more important for U.S. youth to know about, Tienanmen Square or abortion, Winnie the Pooh or jury nullification? And that's just the censorship aspect of this; surveillance remains a bigger factor IMO. Which organization is more likely to be used by an American cop to track the ex-girlfriend they domestically abused: TikTok or Facebook? It seems like your entire argument here is just vague sinophobic hand-waving. Do you have even a single example of TickTock/CCP harming American youth that hasn't been done worse by US social media and government? To be clear, I'm not arguing that China is better than the US in any general way, I'm specifically making the claim that American government and social media harms Americans more than any other government or social media harms Americans.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Why is it clear that your life won't suffer more under domestic control than foreign control, other than reflexive jingoism? Domestic control has more direct levers and the gloves are off right now.
- tivert 2y ago
  > Why is it clear that your life won't suffer more under domestic control than foreign control, other than reflexive jingoism? Domestic control has more direct levers and the gloves are off right now. Because foreigners are even less accountable to Americans and even less interested in their well being than any domestic group? It just stands to reason, there's not even the weak ties of being members of the same group. I mean, to be a little outlandish: if there was a conflict, and some foreign adversary could transmit a mind virus to Americans that would cause them to go on murderous rampages and kill everyone, they'd probably do it. It'd be an instant win, and there'd be some sweet, sweet land to colonize afterwards.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > Because foreigners are even less accountable to Americans and even less interested in their well being than any domestic group? That is not necessarily true. The Hitlers and Putins of the world will happily sacrifice their own citizenry and their country's future for more power in the moment. It's entirely possible for some foreigners to hold more goodwill towards a country than its own leadership. > I mean, to be a little outlandish: if there was a conflict, and some foreign adversary could transmit a mind virus to Americans that would cause them to go on murderous rampages and kill everyone, they'd probably do it. It'd be an instant win, and there'd be some sweet, sweet land to colonize afterwards. Several countries are entirely capable of doing this with nukes.
    - tivert 2y ago
      > That is not necessarily true. The Hitlers and Putins of the world will happily sacrifice their own citizenry and their country's future for more power in the moment. Don't you think they'd be even more willing to sacrifice Americans or other foreigners? > Several countries are entirely capable of doing this with nukes. No, and you're kind of missing the point, which was the adversarial leader cares less about foreigners. Also: nukes are somewhat controlled with MAD, and they'd spoil that sweet, sweet land with fallout.
olyjohn 2y ago
That's not a choice. I can choose CenturyLink or Comcast, but neither actually gets me good internet at a reasonable price.
- brookst 2y ago
  We’re not playing “in an ideal world”, we’re playing “in the world we have, do you want a foreign adversary controlling content”.
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    I trust them about as much as the domestic adversary controlling the content. And the Chinese have a harder time sending in the cops if they don't like what they see
agnosticmantis 2y ago
False dichotomy, when you could have both, and they can have non-overlapping censorship criteria. What one censors the other doesn't, and you get less censorship when there are more options available.
- brookst 2y ago
  Great! So some US kids grow up with Chinese propaganda, and some with more milquetoast and fragmented corporate propaganda, and that’s a better world?
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    Yes- they can talk to each other and swap notes. It sounds like you're arguing for a great firewall type thing to make sure there's only approved non-propaganda content

50208 2y ago

There is a clear trajectory for Tik-Tok to be force sold to a Musk type who can bend it to conservative American disinformation, supposedly better than CCP disinformation?