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GDP isn't the only measure of a country's success. European countries surpass the United States in many metrics relating to the actual wellbeing of their citize
by organsnyder 2y ago
GDP isn't the only measure of a country's success. European countries surpass the United States in many metrics relating to the actual wellbeing of their citizens.
- nradov 2y agoWhich European countries specifically? Europe is a big place. Are you including Moldova? Or just the nice parts of the EU? You can cherry pick measures of success to make one country look better than other countries. So what. For example, the USA does better than almost all European countries in 5-year cancer survival rates.
- organsnyder 2y agoMy wording was sloppy: I should have said "...many European countries..." or just "many countries", for that matter. My point is that the level of GDP in the United States is not required for a thriving society.
- nradov 2y agoWhat is the minimum GDP per capita required for a thriving society?
- organsnyder 2y agoI don't have that answer. But I see no evidence that the United States benefits—as a society—from our high GDP.
- nradov 2y agoWould we be better off with a lower GDP?
- organsnyder 2y agoI don't know. But we certainly would be better off if we optimized for other metrics besides GDP.
- nradov 2y agoWhich other metrics should we optimize for, and how should those metrics be weighted relative to each other?
- bigtex88 2y agoThis is a bad-faith question and you know it.
- nradov 2y agoI know no such thing. A high GDP per capita might not be required to have a thriving society in the modern world but surely there is a lower limit. It should be possible to at least roughly quantify that limit. Could we still have a thriving society if GDP was cut to, let's say, $10000 per person?
- cowfriend 2y agowas Moldavia included in the grandparent's comment on labor laws? re: cancer survival. Are you referring to this work from 2020, showing that the US has more cancer than the EU, even though odds of survival are better? The US Has Higher Incidence, Survival of Rare Cancers Compared With Europe (2020) https://www.ajmc.com/view/the-us-has-higher-incidence-survival-of-rare-cancers-compared-with-europe https://www.ajmc.com/view/the-us-has-higher-incidence-surviv... and shows that Age-adjusted incidence for all rare cancers combined was 17 percentage points higher in the United States than in Europe. The 5-year net survival for all rare cancers was significantly higher in the United States compared with Europe (54% vs 48%). so 17% more likely to have it and a 6% increase in survival. Can we talk about cherry picking?
- nradov 2y agoRight, which was exactly my point. By cherry picking statistics you can make any developed country look better than any other developed country. So what.
- cowfriend 2y agoOr you can dig into the details, as Politico did https://www.politico.eu/article/cancer-europe-america-comparison/ https://www.politico.eu/article/cancer-europe-america-compar... and found: The reason the U.S.’s strong performance on cancer comes as a shock is because access to care in the country is notoriously unequal. But, it turns out, that's far less true of the elderly. Age 65 is when virtually everyone in the U.S. qualifies for Medicare — America’s national, taxpayer-subsidized, government-run (dare we say socialized), comprehensive health insurance program. in other words, the data you are arguing with shows that EU style socialized medicine produced better outcomes.
- ghaff 2y agoAlthough Medicare isn't cheap if you currently (or recently) had a high W-2 income. I pay about what I would for a private plan (or COBRA) for now.
- organsnyder 2y agoPresumably you can afford it if your income is that high. While there are arguments to be made that it shouldn't be means-based at all (it destigmatizes it, for one), it does seem to be working as intended.
- ghaff 2y agoIt's not unreasonable for a plan that the government is always trying to chip away at for financial reasons. But a lot of people look at Medicare and think that it's essentially free which it decidedly is not for anyone with a current or recently high salary. (The add-ons cost a bit too but relatively not.)