3 ms·

I believe official tournaments don't allow any form of proxy? you don't want it causing a complication with prize money or etc if you try to play in a regional

I believe official tournaments don't allow any form of proxy? you don't want it causing a complication with prize money or etc if you try to play in a regional tournament and get dqed by this I assume

josephcsible 2y ago
> I believe official tournaments don't allow any form of proxy? Is there a legitimate reason not to, or is it just a money grab?
- nemomarx 2y ago
  "official" means run by wizards of the Coast, so essentially the money grab. I suppose it has some benefits in terms of not getting anyone who's swapping cards there overpaying for a reproduction too.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Basically two things are driving after market value. Use in tournaments and collectability. And after market value drives the demand for sealed product(one directly from Hasbro via distributors and then stores). I really don't understand why no legislation is targeting this market that is exactly like loot boxes.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  There's no reason not to allow them. You might legitimately prohibit them if unsleeved, but in sleeves there's no difference. Tournaments that aren't run by WotC do allow proxies, though I think Star City Games limits you to 5 proxies, which isn't enough to solve any budget problems. Again, obviously, there's no reason as far as gameplay goes. SCG does traffic in used cards.
  - sleepybrett 2y ago
    The guys who run tourneys are also often guys that participate in the secondary market heavily. Having an 'open to any proxy' tournament would screw their bottom line. The whole point of them running tourneys is to keep excitement in the game and sell more cards on the secondary market.
- tshaddox 2y ago
  Is there a legitimate reason for collectors to value an authentic card more than a counterfeit card?
  - nemomarx 2y ago
    well if you're collecting something, it's age kinda matters? maybe a counterfeit that's also from the 90s would have a similarly interesting story, but one from last week is much less interesting than the possibility of a beta card from the first set of a game inherently, and so less collectible.
- FanaHOVA 2y ago
  Where do you think prize support for tournaments would come from if no one had to buy the cards?
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    Entry fees?
    - kadoban 2y ago
      And sponsorships, and vendors and etc. There's tournaments for _all kinds_ of games that don't require loot-box purchases to compete, it's not exactly an unknown problem.
    - FanaHOVA 2y ago
      The Mtg Pro Tour is free of entry and has a $500,000 prize pool. Tournaments encourage people to buy cards.
      - kadoban 2y ago
        And all it requires is a gross, exploitative business model and lots of grief.
toast0 2y ago
> I believe official tournaments don't allow any form of proxy? It doesn't solve the problem, but I thought I saw something about tournaments allowing proxies for a card that's present but in unplayable condition.
- delecti 2y ago
  Would an example of that be something like "This is my pretend black lotus, and here's my actual black lotus in this graded plastic box"?
  - toast0 2y ago
    If this is authoritative, I don't think so. It's really for the card got damaged in the current tournament so it's a marked card in a deck, or the card is valid, but only available as a foil which would feel different than other cards unless you were playing a foils only deck. https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr3-4/ https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr3-4/
  - plorkyeran 2y ago
    Originally the rule was specifically for cards damaged during the tournament. If a card was in acceptable condition at the start of the tournament but became marked during play you'd be required to substitute it for a proxy, and then acquire a real replacement before the next tournament.
- laurensr 2y ago
  Imagine governments allowing money for gold that's present but locked away. And later for gold they don't have!
  - toast0 2y ago
    Bridge tournaments don't require the players to bring their own royal court to hold. Everyone gets to use cards proxying the various kings, provided by the tournament. MTG tournaments become a test of playing skill, deck building skill, and the skill to have enough money to buy important limited production cards. It is what it is, but sometimes it feels gross.

josephcsible 2y ago

> I believe official tournaments don't allow any form of proxy? Is there a legitimate reason not to, or is it just a money grab?

nemomarx 2y ago
"official" means run by wizards of the Coast, so essentially the money grab. I suppose it has some benefits in terms of not getting anyone who's swapping cards there overpaying for a reproduction too.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Basically two things are driving after market value. Use in tournaments and collectability. And after market value drives the demand for sealed product(one directly from Hasbro via distributors and then stores). I really don't understand why no legislation is targeting this market that is exactly like loot boxes.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
There's no reason not to allow them. You might legitimately prohibit them if unsleeved, but in sleeves there's no difference. Tournaments that aren't run by WotC do allow proxies, though I think Star City Games limits you to 5 proxies, which isn't enough to solve any budget problems. Again, obviously, there's no reason as far as gameplay goes. SCG does traffic in used cards.
- sleepybrett 2y ago
  The guys who run tourneys are also often guys that participate in the secondary market heavily. Having an 'open to any proxy' tournament would screw their bottom line. The whole point of them running tourneys is to keep excitement in the game and sell more cards on the secondary market.
tshaddox 2y ago
Is there a legitimate reason for collectors to value an authentic card more than a counterfeit card?
- nemomarx 2y ago
  well if you're collecting something, it's age kinda matters? maybe a counterfeit that's also from the 90s would have a similarly interesting story, but one from last week is much less interesting than the possibility of a beta card from the first set of a game inherently, and so less collectible.
FanaHOVA 2y ago
Where do you think prize support for tournaments would come from if no one had to buy the cards?
- josephcsible 2y ago
  Entry fees?
  - kadoban 2y ago
    And sponsorships, and vendors and etc. There's tournaments for _all kinds_ of games that don't require loot-box purchases to compete, it's not exactly an unknown problem.
  - FanaHOVA 2y ago
    The Mtg Pro Tour is free of entry and has a $500,000 prize pool. Tournaments encourage people to buy cards.
    - kadoban 2y ago
      And all it requires is a gross, exploitative business model and lots of grief.

toast0 2y ago

> I believe official tournaments don't allow any form of proxy? It doesn't solve the problem, but I thought I saw something about tournaments allowing proxies for a card that's present but in unplayable condition.

delecti 2y ago
Would an example of that be something like "This is my pretend black lotus, and here's my actual black lotus in this graded plastic box"?
- toast0 2y ago
  If this is authoritative, I don't think so. It's really for the card got damaged in the current tournament so it's a marked card in a deck, or the card is valid, but only available as a foil which would feel different than other cards unless you were playing a foils only deck. https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr3-4/ https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr3-4/
- plorkyeran 2y ago
  Originally the rule was specifically for cards damaged during the tournament. If a card was in acceptable condition at the start of the tournament but became marked during play you'd be required to substitute it for a proxy, and then acquire a real replacement before the next tournament.
laurensr 2y ago
Imagine governments allowing money for gold that's present but locked away. And later for gold they don't have!
- toast0 2y ago
  Bridge tournaments don't require the players to bring their own royal court to hold. Everyone gets to use cards proxying the various kings, provided by the tournament. MTG tournaments become a test of playing skill, deck building skill, and the skill to have enough money to buy important limited production cards. It is what it is, but sometimes it feels gross.