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It wasn't a police chopper, it was a military VH-60, also known as a "White Hawk" [1]. It's a VIP transport helicopter, the same type that is used to transport

It wasn't a police chopper, it was a military VH-60, also known as a "White Hawk" [1]. It's a VIP transport helicopter, the same type that is used to transport the president. ~The flight track of the helicopter [2] starts at a property in McLean, VA (edited to remove likely inaccurate info)~ The chopper was based out of Fort Belvoir, and based on similar past flight tracks, looks like it probably took off from there too. CNN is reporting that there were 3 soldiers onboard, and no VIPs. 1: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_VH-60N_White_Hawk https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_VH-60N_White_Hawk 2: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d&lat=38.952&lon=-77.182&zoom=13.8&showTrace=2025-01-30 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d&lat=38.952&lon=-...

reaperman 2y ago
[2] shows the helicopter taking off 2 miles away from the old saudi embassy in McLean marked “permanently closed” on google maps. (The current embassy is in DC proper, directly across the river from DCA airport) I don’t think thats strong evidence that it took off from the old Saudi Embassy - thats pretty far away even given your caveat about accuracy. Edit: it looks to me like the black hawk was coming from somewhere else with its ADS-B turned off entirely, and then turned on ADS-B once it reached the potomac to approach DCA. The first two datapoints of that flight already show it going 110mph, which its unlikely to be able to accelerate to in just 0.2miles after take off. Edit 2: The route also looks very similar to this flight from 11 days earlier (but reversed in direction): https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAT25 https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAT25 This shows the Blackhawk at 300 feet passing by DCA on what seems like a routine or training flight? I don't know how to look up historical flights to see if this is a commonly-flown route. On that flight, the Black Hawk flew past DCA at 300 feet of altitude, and the last FlightAware data for the American Eagle passenger flight showed 400 feet of altitude.
- twoparachute45 2y ago
  I didn't say it took off from the old embassy. The flight track starts at the backyard of a house that is currently owned by the embassy. You can see the owner of that property by searching that address here (the site doesn't support a direct link): https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/search/commonsearch.aspx?mode=address https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/search/commonsearch....
  - reaperman 2y ago
    Thank you!
    - twoparachute45 2y ago
      Regarding your edit: that's a good point, but the vertical ascent rate of the chopper at those first few data points shows 400-800 feet per minute, which is consistent with a chopper taking off...' edit: your second edit makes me think you're right though, tonight's flight track was pretty consistent with the past flight track where it looks like it both took off from and landed at Fort Belvoir.
  - dboreham 2y ago
    That house doesn't seem to have enough clearance vs the trees to land a helo. Note that Langley (CIA) is nearby.
  - jijji 2y ago
    811 Lawton St, Mc Lean, VA 22101 Name: SAUDIA ARABIA ROYAL EMBASSY OF, Mailing Address: 8500 HILLTOP RD STE 301 C/O FINANCIAL DIRECTOR FAIRFAX VA 22031 4310
- jetpackjoe 2y ago
  CNN is reporting the helicopter came from Fort Belvoir. https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-washington-dc-01-29-25#cm6isjxla001g3b6mrvjwtdrr https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-was...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - reaperman 2y ago
    The helicopter seems like it is typically stationed at Fort Belvoir. Does "out of Fort Belvoir, Virginia" strictly mean that the helicopter's flight started at Fort Belvoir, or that the helicopter itself is considered to be "out of Fort Belvoir" in a similar manner that LeBron James could be said to be "out of Akron, OH"?
- highcountess 2y ago
  Military flights do not fly ADB hot outside of the DC FRZ. It was also clearly exactly following flight route 4. There are a few locations in that area it could have been coming from. Anything else would have made no sense flying through the FRZ from/to Belvoir.
  - reaperman 2y ago
    What is "flight route 4"?
    - matheweis 2y ago
      The FAA publishes supplemental charts specifically for helicopters in areas with high concentrations of helicopter activity: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/productcatalog/vfrcharts/helicopter/ https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/productc... Specifically the Baltimore-Washington route chart was relevant for these flights: https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/10-31-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/10-31-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Hel... If you find the DCA airport on that chart, you’ll find routes 1 and 4 which roughly correspond to the helicopter’s flight path.
      - Animats 2y ago
        Right. Helicopter was on Helicopter Route 4, per the map, apparently on course. Aircraft was on approach to Runway 33, apparently on course. That helicopter route crosses the approach to runway 33. That's controlled airspace. How did they both have clearance to be there? We'll know more tomorrow as all the audio and radar recordings are examined.
        agsnu 2y ago
        They were almost certainly both cleared to maintain visual separation.
        deepersprout 2y ago
- highcountess 2y ago
  That was clearly a training flight
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - TacticalCoder 2y ago
    [dead]
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    But does that provide any context? Military pilots perform training flights regularly - it's not necessarily indicative of an inexperienced pilot.
    - tcmart14 2y ago
      Not really. I wasn't a pilot, just a lowly ABF in the Navy. But when we deployed, on an LHD, most of our flights were what you could probably "classify" as training. We ran flight ops every day because pilots have to maintain hours. We flew every day for 7 months and only 2-3 of those months were we in the gulf. And even in the gulf, not all flights were missions, I would say less than half were. That also isn't counting 4-6 months prior to deployment of work ups where we would go out to sea for a week and come back, everyday pilots flew training missions off our deck. All in all, all in the military probably spend most of their air time training then actually flying missions. I also recall, even experienced pilots, would rotate out to training units as their "shore" (break from a deploy able unit) duty. This wasn't a Navy aircraft, but I imagine a lot of that is the same regardless of branch.
- lovecg 2y ago
  Note that that track is not ADS-B at all. It’s triangulated from mode S pings (“MLAT”, https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/ https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/). I don’t know how accurate these are.
- i_am_proteus 2y ago
  The current embassy is indeed in DC proper, but it isn't directly across the river from DCA. It's about a mile upriver, near the Watergate.
jballer 2y ago
It's a "Gold Top", callsign PAT25 https://helicoptersofdc.com/helicopters/5-us-army-12th-aviation-battalion/ https://helicoptersofdc.com/helicopters/5-us-army-12th-aviat...
Rantenki 2y ago
BBC is reporting that the Army has confirmed that it was a UH-60, not a VH-60, ie: not a VIP transport: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cy7kxx74yxlt?post=asset%3A62b98ba2-198e-4335-9b2c-8877bf476ed3#post https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cy7kxx74yxlt?post=asset%3A62b9... Although it's early on and these communications are often chaotic/inaccurate.
- twoparachute45 2y ago
  I thought it was a VH-60 given that it was callsign PAT25 (PAT is Priority Air Transport and they use the VH-60 for those flights), but if this was a training flight, they may have still used the PAT callsign while flying a UH-60.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    Both are "Black Hawk" airframes, right? The VH-60 variant is just a UH-60 that was build/configured for VIP transport vs the normal UH-60 utility variant. IE, other than paint, they look the same to a casual observer.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
evil-olive 2y ago
> The flight track of the helicopter starts at a property in McLean, VA that's almost certainly not where the flight started, due to intricacies of how this sort of flight tracking works. if you look at [0] it has tracks of both flights. toggle the right-hand sidebar, if it's not open already, and you'll see a table containing both planes. the helicopter (PAT25) is yellow, the plane (JIA5342) is blue. the legend right below that explains the color-coding - the plane's data came from ADS-B, while the helicopter's data came from multilateration (MLAT). MLAT [1, 2] works by having multiple ADS-B feeder stations cooperate in real-time and deduce an aircraft's position based on timestamps of when the signal is received. it allows tracking aircraft that only broadcast the more limited Mode S data, instead of the newer and more detailed ADS-B. because it requires multiple cooperating receivers, the start of the track in suburban McLean does not mean it took off from there. it just means that was the point in its flight where it became visible to enough receivers that MLAT was able to pin down a position. you can also see this difference just by looking at the tracks - the plane is broadcasting its own position continuously, so its track is nice and smooth. meanwhile the helicopter's flight looks "jagged" in a way that does not match what its actual flight path would have been. this is an artifact of the small errors introduced by MLAT. 0: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d,a97753 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d,a97753 1: https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/ https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/ 2: https://adsbx.discourse.group/t/multilateration-mlat-how-it-works-and-why-you-should-care/325 https://adsbx.discourse.group/t/multilateration-mlat-how-it-...
- amelius 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nemomarx 2y ago
    once you know to look at those two specific flights it probably gets easier, yeah. if you were looking at everything in the air at the time I think less so?
    - amelius 2y ago
      I mean, you can get the data from an API, probably. Then you just write a python script to keep an eye on colliding trajectories.

reaperman 2y ago

[2] shows the helicopter taking off 2 miles away from the old saudi embassy in McLean marked “permanently closed” on google maps. (The current embassy is in DC proper, directly across the river from DCA airport) I don’t think thats strong evidence that it took off from the old Saudi Embassy - thats pretty far away even given your caveat about accuracy. Edit: it looks to me like the black hawk was coming from somewhere else with its ADS-B turned off entirely, and then turned on ADS-B once it reached the potomac to approach DCA. The first two datapoints of that flight already show it going 110mph, which its unlikely to be able to accelerate to in just 0.2miles after take off. Edit 2: The route also looks very similar to this flight from 11 days earlier (but reversed in direction): https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAT25 https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAT25 This shows the Blackhawk at 300 feet passing by DCA on what seems like a routine or training flight? I don't know how to look up historical flights to see if this is a commonly-flown route. On that flight, the Black Hawk flew past DCA at 300 feet of altitude, and the last FlightAware data for the American Eagle passenger flight showed 400 feet of altitude.

twoparachute45 2y ago
I didn't say it took off from the old embassy. The flight track starts at the backyard of a house that is currently owned by the embassy. You can see the owner of that property by searching that address here (the site doesn't support a direct link): https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/search/commonsearch.aspx?mode=address https://icare.fairfaxcounty.gov/ffxcare/search/commonsearch....
- reaperman 2y ago
  Thank you!
  - twoparachute45 2y ago
    Regarding your edit: that's a good point, but the vertical ascent rate of the chopper at those first few data points shows 400-800 feet per minute, which is consistent with a chopper taking off...' edit: your second edit makes me think you're right though, tonight's flight track was pretty consistent with the past flight track where it looks like it both took off from and landed at Fort Belvoir.
- dboreham 2y ago
  That house doesn't seem to have enough clearance vs the trees to land a helo. Note that Langley (CIA) is nearby.
- jijji 2y ago
  811 Lawton St, Mc Lean, VA 22101 Name: SAUDIA ARABIA ROYAL EMBASSY OF, Mailing Address: 8500 HILLTOP RD STE 301 C/O FINANCIAL DIRECTOR FAIRFAX VA 22031 4310
jetpackjoe 2y ago
CNN is reporting the helicopter came from Fort Belvoir. https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-washington-dc-01-29-25#cm6isjxla001g3b6mrvjwtdrr https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-was...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- reaperman 2y ago
  The helicopter seems like it is typically stationed at Fort Belvoir. Does "out of Fort Belvoir, Virginia" strictly mean that the helicopter's flight started at Fort Belvoir, or that the helicopter itself is considered to be "out of Fort Belvoir" in a similar manner that LeBron James could be said to be "out of Akron, OH"?
highcountess 2y ago
Military flights do not fly ADB hot outside of the DC FRZ. It was also clearly exactly following flight route 4. There are a few locations in that area it could have been coming from. Anything else would have made no sense flying through the FRZ from/to Belvoir.
- reaperman 2y ago
  What is "flight route 4"?
  - matheweis 2y ago
    The FAA publishes supplemental charts specifically for helicopters in areas with high concentrations of helicopter activity: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/productcatalog/vfrcharts/helicopter/ https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/productc... Specifically the Baltimore-Washington route chart was relevant for these flights: https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/10-31-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/10-31-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Hel... If you find the DCA airport on that chart, you’ll find routes 1 and 4 which roughly correspond to the helicopter’s flight path.
    - Animats 2y ago
      Right. Helicopter was on Helicopter Route 4, per the map, apparently on course. Aircraft was on approach to Runway 33, apparently on course. That helicopter route crosses the approach to runway 33. That's controlled airspace. How did they both have clearance to be there? We'll know more tomorrow as all the audio and radar recordings are examined.
      - agsnu 2y ago
        They were almost certainly both cleared to maintain visual separation.
        deepersprout 2y ago
highcountess 2y ago
That was clearly a training flight
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  [flagged]
- TacticalCoder 2y ago
  [dead]
- alistairSH 2y ago
  But does that provide any context? Military pilots perform training flights regularly - it's not necessarily indicative of an inexperienced pilot.
  - tcmart14 2y ago
    Not really. I wasn't a pilot, just a lowly ABF in the Navy. But when we deployed, on an LHD, most of our flights were what you could probably "classify" as training. We ran flight ops every day because pilots have to maintain hours. We flew every day for 7 months and only 2-3 of those months were we in the gulf. And even in the gulf, not all flights were missions, I would say less than half were. That also isn't counting 4-6 months prior to deployment of work ups where we would go out to sea for a week and come back, everyday pilots flew training missions off our deck. All in all, all in the military probably spend most of their air time training then actually flying missions. I also recall, even experienced pilots, would rotate out to training units as their "shore" (break from a deploy able unit) duty. This wasn't a Navy aircraft, but I imagine a lot of that is the same regardless of branch.
lovecg 2y ago
Note that that track is not ADS-B at all. It’s triangulated from mode S pings (“MLAT”, https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/ https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/). I don’t know how accurate these are.
i_am_proteus 2y ago
The current embassy is indeed in DC proper, but it isn't directly across the river from DCA. It's about a mile upriver, near the Watergate.

jballer 2y ago

It's a "Gold Top", callsign PAT25 https://helicoptersofdc.com/helicopters/5-us-army-12th-aviation-battalion/ https://helicoptersofdc.com/helicopters/5-us-army-12th-aviat...

Rantenki 2y ago

BBC is reporting that the Army has confirmed that it was a UH-60, not a VH-60, ie: not a VIP transport: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cy7kxx74yxlt?post=asset%3A62b98ba2-198e-4335-9b2c-8877bf476ed3#post https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cy7kxx74yxlt?post=asset%3A62b9... Although it's early on and these communications are often chaotic/inaccurate.

twoparachute45 2y ago
I thought it was a VH-60 given that it was callsign PAT25 (PAT is Priority Air Transport and they use the VH-60 for those flights), but if this was a training flight, they may have still used the PAT callsign while flying a UH-60.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  Both are "Black Hawk" airframes, right? The VH-60 variant is just a UH-60 that was build/configured for VIP transport vs the normal UH-60 utility variant. IE, other than paint, they look the same to a casual observer.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

evil-olive 2y ago

> The flight track of the helicopter starts at a property in McLean, VA that's almost certainly not where the flight started, due to intricacies of how this sort of flight tracking works. if you look at [0] it has tracks of both flights. toggle the right-hand sidebar, if it's not open already, and you'll see a table containing both planes. the helicopter (PAT25) is yellow, the plane (JIA5342) is blue. the legend right below that explains the color-coding - the plane's data came from ADS-B, while the helicopter's data came from multilateration (MLAT). MLAT [1, 2] works by having multiple ADS-B feeder stations cooperate in real-time and deduce an aircraft's position based on timestamps of when the signal is received. it allows tracking aircraft that only broadcast the more limited Mode S data, instead of the newer and more detailed ADS-B. because it requires multiple cooperating receivers, the start of the track in suburban McLean does not mean it took off from there. it just means that was the point in its flight where it became visible to enough receivers that MLAT was able to pin down a position. you can also see this difference just by looking at the tracks - the plane is broadcasting its own position continuously, so its track is nice and smooth. meanwhile the helicopter's flight looks "jagged" in a way that does not match what its actual flight path would have been. this is an artifact of the small errors introduced by MLAT. 0: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d,a97753 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d,a97753 1: https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/ https://www.flightaware.com/adsb/mlat/ 2: https://adsbx.discourse.group/t/multilateration-mlat-how-it-works-and-why-you-should-care/325 https://adsbx.discourse.group/t/multilateration-mlat-how-it-...

amelius 2y ago
[flagged]
- nemomarx 2y ago
  once you know to look at those two specific flights it probably gets easier, yeah. if you were looking at everything in the air at the time I think less so?
  - amelius 2y ago
    I mean, you can get the data from an API, probably. Then you just write a python script to keep an eye on colliding trajectories.