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The amount of vitriol in these comments is the really surprising data. I've seen the same on Twitter. I can only put it down to the financial pain DeepSeek infl

The amount of vitriol in these comments is the really surprising data. I've seen the same on Twitter. I can only put it down to the financial pain DeepSeek inflicted on many US retail investors by wiping almost $700 billion off NVidia's stock price. I think a lot of folks didn't see it coming and it hurt them right where it matters most: In the wallet. The anger out there is very real.

gerdesj 2y ago
"The amount of vitriol in these comments is the really surprising data" No it isn't (well it probably is too). This is the rather naff nation state bollocks in play. You have either or both of "some bigger boys found a more efficient way of doing something I thought I was good at" and "I've wet myself".
- gerdesj 2y ago
  sigh
bobxmax 2y ago
It's also deeply damaging to the western ego, especially one rooted in American exceptionalism. But also one those of us actually working on foundational AI saw coming a mile away when most of the top research of late has been happening in Chinese labs, not American or European ones. Can't wait to see what this boneheaded President's tarrif on TSMC does to this situation.
- hsuduebc2 2y ago
  Well to be honest most of this on start came from US so the general surprise is understendable. But of course it would be foolish and arrogant assume that for whole progress forever. I don't understand the rage. This is good for everyone. Competition is what drives innovation and they even open sourced it! If you want to outdo them, learn from them. Don't just try to cry louder, it's embarrassing for everyone.
- awesomeMilou 2y ago
  > Can't wait to see what this boneheaded President's tarrif on TSMC does to this situation. Can you please provide a source? Genuinely curious as this would be fatal to the US economy. Imagine working 2 years to get out from Covid chip shortages only to hammer progress down with tariffs.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    Just Googled this (from yesterday): https://www.yahoo.com/tech/trump-promises-high-semiconductor-tariffs-182146174.html https://www.yahoo.com/tech/trump-promises-high-semiconductor...
  - bobxmax 2y ago
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taiwan-chip-tariffs-nvidia-stock-tsmc-deepseek-2025-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taiwan-chip-tariffs-nv... Hopefully it's just posturing, but either way it's utterly asinine yet about par for the course what I would have expected from this administration.
karim79 2y ago
+1. I also enjoy the "China be stealin' ur data and personal info" angle. As if the incumbents haven't already done that, and are still doing it, as their core business practices. This whole thing should be an eye-opener to most people. To ask an honest question, who gives a crap if a Chinese company manages to grab data that many of the usual Silicon Valley suspects have had all along and have been incrementally updating? How is this a "threat". To pile on another gripe, why the hell does every single media outlet point out the "Tienanmen Square" question? The whole thing has just become embarrassing. I honestly can't fathom what worse China could do with my personal info than the likes of say, Meta. I'm not saying I would enjoy it, but I just don't see how it could be more harmful than the Silicon Valley status quo.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  > How is this a "threat". Given how closely major US tech companies are now affiliated and partnered with the US Federal government, arguably the direct potential threat from them to US citizens may well be higher than from across a very big pond. People trot out "I'd rather our guys spy on me than them" a lot, but that's putting a lot of faith in your local government. Conversely, who do you think has more to fear from their logged prompts on DeepSeek, US or Chinese citizens?
  - karim79 2y ago
    I think you missed my point, or I wasn't clear enough. Your point is exactly the one I was trying to make. I think I must re-examine my articulation.
    - sho_hn 2y ago
      I wasn't arguing against you, rather extending your argument for further effect. Should've prefixed with "Indeed, ...", sorry.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
m00x 2y ago
The hit on NVidia's stock price makes no sense to me. DeepSeek uses H100s and H800s. They'll likely have reasons to buy more now, and America will want to compete even harder, buying more chips. American companies are still way ahead as well, but they're just getting more competition. This will be healthy.
- jijji 2y ago
  It's probably the lack of understanding the market... Most people thought there was a ban (issued by the US in 2022) against China being able to utilize the H100 Nvidia graphics cards to prevent them from using AI (for the obvious purpose of oppressing their people). If anything, export controls need to be looked at and probably tightened as this is a glaring loop hole.
  - thorncorona 2y ago
    Huawei has B200 competitive inference chips coming.
    - jijji 2y ago
      Nvidia has the Blackwell B200, its latest GPU card. Huawei's offering is called Ascend 910C. Huawei's future offering to compete against the Nvidia Blackwell B200 is called Ascend 920C.
  - teleforce 2y ago
    > export controls need to be looked at and probably tightened as this is a glaring loop hole US is the prominent trade freedom proponent champion until it does not suits them Also US is the prominent democracy proponent champion until it does not suits them And also US is the free speech freedom champion until it does not suits them
    - jijji 2y ago
      I can understand your argument, but I also understand why the US would try to ban an oppressive regime who specifically use technology like AI for ubiquitous surveillance, behavior monitoring and social credit, facial recognition systems that can identify Uyghurs and alert authorities, internet monitoring (they arrest people every day for writing banned words on WeChat for example)... I think it's probably fine if they make the equipment themselves, but US probably shouldn't be supporting this type of activity.
elevatedastalt 2y ago
In whose hands do you think your personal data is more secure? Google or DeepSeek?
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Both can suck.
- worksonmine 2y ago
  Do we have to choose? I'm doing fine without either.
lolinder 2y ago
I'm sure some people did actually get hurt by NVIDIA's stock dropping, but it's also important to keep the size of the effect in perspective: NVIDIA's stock is back to where it was in September of last year, and still up almost 1900% from 5 years ago and up 103% from a year ago. NVIDIA's stock has been super bubbly—all DeepSeek did was set off itchy investor trigger fingers that were already worried about its highly inflated price.
jijji 2y ago
Did you even read the article? It's about the backend of deepseek.com being completely unprotected to the point where all the prompts users typed in are being exposed to the public. The fact that these people are supposed to be competent leads most to believe this is a backend for the CCP to spy on users. Competent or not, I would not use that system for anything. If anything, one might host it locally and use it in that way. Regardless, deepseek.com has serious security issues.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  I'm wary of engaging in false equivalence, but people seem to have really forgotten the revelations of the Snowden episode.
  - khazhoux 2y ago
    which was what?
    - tasty_freeze 2y ago
      If you rat out the government doing unconstitutional things, you lose your citizenship.
      - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
        Did Snowden lose his citizenship? No. The US cannot revoke his citizenship per its laws. He fled to Russia and took an oath of citizenship there in 2022. But he didn’t renounce his US citizenship either.
        TeaBrain 2y ago
        What the above user is thinking of is how Snowden's passport validity was reportedly revoked in 2013, right after he had landed in Moscow.
        2y ago
ninetyninenine 2y ago
Also American pride. China is on track to outpace the US in technical, military and economic dominance. A lot of people want to poke at Chinese weakness wherever it’s exposed because Americans are used to being the best and also unconscious racism. When Japan was about to overtake the US the US pulled some similar moves and that is partly what’s responsible for japans current economic funk. It’s unlikely these moves will work on China.
- fishcrackers 2y ago
  [dead]
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
In my opinion, it is not vitriol as much as unfiltered recognition of the significant issues and risks that have become a part of DeepSeek’s story: the Chinese government injecting propaganda into LLMs, the threat of apps from adversaries in US app stores (like TikTok and DeepSeek), the disregard for user privacy (their database was open to the Internet with no authentication and no encryption of data), the misleading claim of quoting the cost of a single final run (which amounts to market manipulation of nvidia stock), the theft of OpenAI’s assets that they’ve not admitted to, the likely evasion of sanctions, and so on.
to11mtm 2y ago
Every intelligent colleague is an interesting mix of 'sour but intrigued' Personally, I know I've lost a lot of street cred amongst certain work circles in recent history as far as my thoughts of 'shops should pursue local LLM solutions[0]' and the '$6000 4-8 tokens/second local LLM box' post making the rounds [1] hopefully gives orgs a better idea of what LLMs can do if we keep them from being 100% SAASlike in structure. I think a big litmus test for some orgs in near future, is whether they keep 'buying ChatGPT' or instead find a good way to quickly customize or at least properly deploy such models. [0] - I mean, for starters, a locally hosted LLM resolves a LOT of concerns around infosec.... [1] - Very thankful a colleague shared that with me...
blitzar 2y ago
Obviously a lot of people are long Nvidia stock, and based on the comments are in the denial stage of grief. "This is good for Nvidia" is the 2025 version of "this is good for bitcoin"
Kiro 2y ago
I'm not seeing any vitriol or comments that are outside the norm, except people defending DeepSeek and throwing accusations left and right for seemingly no reason at all. That's the actually surprising data.

gerdesj 2y ago

"The amount of vitriol in these comments is the really surprising data" No it isn't (well it probably is too). This is the rather naff nation state bollocks in play. You have either or both of "some bigger boys found a more efficient way of doing something I thought I was good at" and "I've wet myself".

gerdesj 2y ago
sigh

bobxmax 2y ago

It's also deeply damaging to the western ego, especially one rooted in American exceptionalism. But also one those of us actually working on foundational AI saw coming a mile away when most of the top research of late has been happening in Chinese labs, not American or European ones. Can't wait to see what this boneheaded President's tarrif on TSMC does to this situation.

hsuduebc2 2y ago
Well to be honest most of this on start came from US so the general surprise is understendable. But of course it would be foolish and arrogant assume that for whole progress forever. I don't understand the rage. This is good for everyone. Competition is what drives innovation and they even open sourced it! If you want to outdo them, learn from them. Don't just try to cry louder, it's embarrassing for everyone.
awesomeMilou 2y ago
> Can't wait to see what this boneheaded President's tarrif on TSMC does to this situation. Can you please provide a source? Genuinely curious as this would be fatal to the US economy. Imagine working 2 years to get out from Covid chip shortages only to hammer progress down with tariffs.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Just Googled this (from yesterday): https://www.yahoo.com/tech/trump-promises-high-semiconductor-tariffs-182146174.html https://www.yahoo.com/tech/trump-promises-high-semiconductor...
- bobxmax 2y ago
  https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taiwan-chip-tariffs-nvidia-stock-tsmc-deepseek-2025-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taiwan-chip-tariffs-nv... Hopefully it's just posturing, but either way it's utterly asinine yet about par for the course what I would have expected from this administration.

karim79 2y ago

+1. I also enjoy the "China be stealin' ur data and personal info" angle. As if the incumbents haven't already done that, and are still doing it, as their core business practices. This whole thing should be an eye-opener to most people. To ask an honest question, who gives a crap if a Chinese company manages to grab data that many of the usual Silicon Valley suspects have had all along and have been incrementally updating? How is this a "threat". To pile on another gripe, why the hell does every single media outlet point out the "Tienanmen Square" question? The whole thing has just become embarrassing. I honestly can't fathom what worse China could do with my personal info than the likes of say, Meta. I'm not saying I would enjoy it, but I just don't see how it could be more harmful than the Silicon Valley status quo.

sho_hn 2y ago
> How is this a "threat". Given how closely major US tech companies are now affiliated and partnered with the US Federal government, arguably the direct potential threat from them to US citizens may well be higher than from across a very big pond. People trot out "I'd rather our guys spy on me than them" a lot, but that's putting a lot of faith in your local government. Conversely, who do you think has more to fear from their logged prompts on DeepSeek, US or Chinese citizens?
- karim79 2y ago
  I think you missed my point, or I wasn't clear enough. Your point is exactly the one I was trying to make. I think I must re-examine my articulation.
  - sho_hn 2y ago
    I wasn't arguing against you, rather extending your argument for further effect. Should've prefixed with "Indeed, ...", sorry.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

m00x 2y ago

The hit on NVidia's stock price makes no sense to me. DeepSeek uses H100s and H800s. They'll likely have reasons to buy more now, and America will want to compete even harder, buying more chips. American companies are still way ahead as well, but they're just getting more competition. This will be healthy.

jijji 2y ago
It's probably the lack of understanding the market... Most people thought there was a ban (issued by the US in 2022) against China being able to utilize the H100 Nvidia graphics cards to prevent them from using AI (for the obvious purpose of oppressing their people). If anything, export controls need to be looked at and probably tightened as this is a glaring loop hole.
- thorncorona 2y ago
  Huawei has B200 competitive inference chips coming.
  - jijji 2y ago
    Nvidia has the Blackwell B200, its latest GPU card. Huawei's offering is called Ascend 910C. Huawei's future offering to compete against the Nvidia Blackwell B200 is called Ascend 920C.
- teleforce 2y ago
  > export controls need to be looked at and probably tightened as this is a glaring loop hole US is the prominent trade freedom proponent champion until it does not suits them Also US is the prominent democracy proponent champion until it does not suits them And also US is the free speech freedom champion until it does not suits them
  - jijji 2y ago
    I can understand your argument, but I also understand why the US would try to ban an oppressive regime who specifically use technology like AI for ubiquitous surveillance, behavior monitoring and social credit, facial recognition systems that can identify Uyghurs and alert authorities, internet monitoring (they arrest people every day for writing banned words on WeChat for example)... I think it's probably fine if they make the equipment themselves, but US probably shouldn't be supporting this type of activity.

elevatedastalt 2y ago

In whose hands do you think your personal data is more secure? Google or DeepSeek?

JKCalhoun 2y ago
Both can suck.
worksonmine 2y ago
Do we have to choose? I'm doing fine without either.

lolinder 2y ago

I'm sure some people did actually get hurt by NVIDIA's stock dropping, but it's also important to keep the size of the effect in perspective: NVIDIA's stock is back to where it was in September of last year, and still up almost 1900% from 5 years ago and up 103% from a year ago. NVIDIA's stock has been super bubbly—all DeepSeek did was set off itchy investor trigger fingers that were already worried about its highly inflated price.

jijji 2y ago

Did you even read the article? It's about the backend of deepseek.com being completely unprotected to the point where all the prompts users typed in are being exposed to the public. The fact that these people are supposed to be competent leads most to believe this is a backend for the CCP to spy on users. Competent or not, I would not use that system for anything. If anything, one might host it locally and use it in that way. Regardless, deepseek.com has serious security issues.

sho_hn 2y ago
I'm wary of engaging in false equivalence, but people seem to have really forgotten the revelations of the Snowden episode.
- khazhoux 2y ago
  which was what?
  - tasty_freeze 2y ago
    If you rat out the government doing unconstitutional things, you lose your citizenship.
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      Did Snowden lose his citizenship? No. The US cannot revoke his citizenship per its laws. He fled to Russia and took an oath of citizenship there in 2022. But he didn’t renounce his US citizenship either.
      - TeaBrain 2y ago
        What the above user is thinking of is how Snowden's passport validity was reportedly revoked in 2013, right after he had landed in Moscow.
        2y ago

ninetyninenine 2y ago

Also American pride. China is on track to outpace the US in technical, military and economic dominance. A lot of people want to poke at Chinese weakness wherever it’s exposed because Americans are used to being the best and also unconscious racism. When Japan was about to overtake the US the US pulled some similar moves and that is partly what’s responsible for japans current economic funk. It’s unlikely these moves will work on China.

fishcrackers 2y ago
[dead]

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

In my opinion, it is not vitriol as much as unfiltered recognition of the significant issues and risks that have become a part of DeepSeek’s story: the Chinese government injecting propaganda into LLMs, the threat of apps from adversaries in US app stores (like TikTok and DeepSeek), the disregard for user privacy (their database was open to the Internet with no authentication and no encryption of data), the misleading claim of quoting the cost of a single final run (which amounts to market manipulation of nvidia stock), the theft of OpenAI’s assets that they’ve not admitted to, the likely evasion of sanctions, and so on.

to11mtm 2y ago

Every intelligent colleague is an interesting mix of 'sour but intrigued' Personally, I know I've lost a lot of street cred amongst certain work circles in recent history as far as my thoughts of 'shops should pursue local LLM solutions[0]' and the '$6000 4-8 tokens/second local LLM box' post making the rounds [1] hopefully gives orgs a better idea of what LLMs can do if we keep them from being 100% SAASlike in structure. I think a big litmus test for some orgs in near future, is whether they keep 'buying ChatGPT' or instead find a good way to quickly customize or at least properly deploy such models. [0] - I mean, for starters, a locally hosted LLM resolves a LOT of concerns around infosec.... [1] - Very thankful a colleague shared that with me...

blitzar 2y ago

Obviously a lot of people are long Nvidia stock, and based on the comments are in the denial stage of grief. "This is good for Nvidia" is the 2025 version of "this is good for bitcoin"

Kiro 2y ago

I'm not seeing any vitriol or comments that are outside the norm, except people defending DeepSeek and throwing accusations left and right for seemingly no reason at all. That's the actually surprising data.