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> This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle Can we stop with this nonsense ? The list of author of the paper is pu

> This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle Can we stop with this nonsense ? The list of author of the paper is public, you can just go look it up. There are ~130 people on the ML team, they have regular ML background just like you would find at any other large ML labs. Their infra cost multiple millions of dollar per month to run, and the salary of such a big team is somewhere in the $20-50M per year (not very au fait of the market rate in china hence the spread). This is not a sideproject. Edit: Apparently my comment is confusing some people. Am not arguing that ML people are good at security. Just that DS is not the side project of a bunch of quant bros.

weird-eye-issue 2y ago
None of that has anything to do with "deploying external client facing applications"
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  You're right. It has nothing to do with the second sentence of the two sentence post it replies to.
islewis 2y ago
A bunch of ML researchers who were initially hired to do quant work published their first ever user facing project. So maybe not a side project, but if you have ever worked with ML researchers before, lack of engineering/security chops shouldn't be that surprising to you.
- spoaceman7777 2y ago
  First ever? Their math, coding, and other models have been making a splash since 2023. The mythologizing around deepseek is just absurd. "Deepseek is the tale of one lowly hedgefund manager overcoming the wicked American AI devils". Every day I hear variations of this, and the vast majority of it is based entirely in "vibes" emanating from some unknown place.
  - quantified 2y ago
    Models and security are very different uses of our synapses. Publishing any number of models is no proof of anything beyond models. Talented mathematicians and programmers though they may be.
  - sho_hn 2y ago
    What I find amusing is that this closely mirrors the breakout moment OpenAI had with ChatGPT. They had been releasing models for quite some time before slapping the chatbot interface on it, and then it blew up within a few days. It's fascinating that a couple of years and a few competitors in, the DeepSeek moment parallels it so closely.
- sailingparrot 2y ago
  > A bunch of ML researchers who were initially hired to do quant work Very interesting! I'm sure you have a source for this claim? This myth of DS being a side project literally started from one tweet. DeepSeek the company is funded by a company whose main business is being a hedge fund, but DeepSeek itself from day 1 has been all about building LLM to reach AGI, completely independent. This is like saying SpaceX is the side-project of a few caremaking bros, just because Elon funded and manages both. They are unrelated. Again, you can easily google the name of the authors and look at their background, you will find people with PhD in LLM/multimodal models, internships at Microsoft Research etc. No trace of background on quant or time series prediction or any of that. From the mouth of the CEO himself 2 years ago: "Our large-model project is unrelated to our quant and financial activities. We’ve established an independent company called DeepSeek, to focus on this." [0] It's really interesting to see how after 10 years debating the mythical 10x engineer, we have now overnight created the mythical 100x Chinese quant bro researcher, that can do 50x better models than the best U.S. people, after 6pm while working on his side project. [0]: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseek-from-hedge-fund-to-frontier https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseek-from-hedge-fund-to-fr...
  - islewis 2y ago
    A valid response to my initial comment which was a bit tongue in cheek. However, i'm not sure that them being LLM researchers compared to quant researchers changes the dynamic of their relaxed security posture.
    - sailingparrot 2y ago
      > However, i'm not sure that them being LLM researchers compared to quant researchers changes the dynamic of their relaxed security posture. It does not indeed, but that's not the part I was commenting on.
  - asdasdsddd 2y ago
    Just to be pedantic, spaceX predates tesla
- tonyhart7 2y ago
  well security isn't their job to begin with
skywhopper 2y ago
?? The point is, the ML researchers aren’t experts at deploying secure infrastructure.
- benatkin 2y ago
  ?????? This wasn't narrow minded folks doing this. Shit happens.
manquer 2y ago
> This is not a sideproject. OP means to say public API and app being a side project, which likely it is, the skills required to do ML have little overlap to skills required to run large complex workloads securely and at scale for public facing app with presumably millions of users. The latter role also typically requires experience not just knowledge to do well which is why experiences SREs have very good salaries.

weird-eye-issue 2y ago

None of that has anything to do with "deploying external client facing applications"

Dylan16807 2y ago
You're right. It has nothing to do with the second sentence of the two sentence post it replies to.

islewis 2y ago

A bunch of ML researchers who were initially hired to do quant work published their first ever user facing project. So maybe not a side project, but if you have ever worked with ML researchers before, lack of engineering/security chops shouldn't be that surprising to you.

spoaceman7777 2y ago
First ever? Their math, coding, and other models have been making a splash since 2023. The mythologizing around deepseek is just absurd. "Deepseek is the tale of one lowly hedgefund manager overcoming the wicked American AI devils". Every day I hear variations of this, and the vast majority of it is based entirely in "vibes" emanating from some unknown place.
- quantified 2y ago
  Models and security are very different uses of our synapses. Publishing any number of models is no proof of anything beyond models. Talented mathematicians and programmers though they may be.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  What I find amusing is that this closely mirrors the breakout moment OpenAI had with ChatGPT. They had been releasing models for quite some time before slapping the chatbot interface on it, and then it blew up within a few days. It's fascinating that a couple of years and a few competitors in, the DeepSeek moment parallels it so closely.
sailingparrot 2y ago
> A bunch of ML researchers who were initially hired to do quant work Very interesting! I'm sure you have a source for this claim? This myth of DS being a side project literally started from one tweet. DeepSeek the company is funded by a company whose main business is being a hedge fund, but DeepSeek itself from day 1 has been all about building LLM to reach AGI, completely independent. This is like saying SpaceX is the side-project of a few caremaking bros, just because Elon funded and manages both. They are unrelated. Again, you can easily google the name of the authors and look at their background, you will find people with PhD in LLM/multimodal models, internships at Microsoft Research etc. No trace of background on quant or time series prediction or any of that. From the mouth of the CEO himself 2 years ago: "Our large-model project is unrelated to our quant and financial activities. We’ve established an independent company called DeepSeek, to focus on this." [0] It's really interesting to see how after 10 years debating the mythical 10x engineer, we have now overnight created the mythical 100x Chinese quant bro researcher, that can do 50x better models than the best U.S. people, after 6pm while working on his side project. [0]: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseek-from-hedge-fund-to-frontier https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseek-from-hedge-fund-to-fr...
- islewis 2y ago
  A valid response to my initial comment which was a bit tongue in cheek. However, i'm not sure that them being LLM researchers compared to quant researchers changes the dynamic of their relaxed security posture.
  - sailingparrot 2y ago
    > However, i'm not sure that them being LLM researchers compared to quant researchers changes the dynamic of their relaxed security posture. It does not indeed, but that's not the part I was commenting on.
- asdasdsddd 2y ago
  Just to be pedantic, spaceX predates tesla
tonyhart7 2y ago
well security isn't their job to begin with

skywhopper 2y ago

?? The point is, the ML researchers aren’t experts at deploying secure infrastructure.

benatkin 2y ago
?????? This wasn't narrow minded folks doing this. Shit happens.

manquer 2y ago

> This is not a sideproject. OP means to say public API and app being a side project, which likely it is, the skills required to do ML have little overlap to skills required to run large complex workloads securely and at scale for public facing app with presumably millions of users. The latter role also typically requires experience not just knowledge to do well which is why experiences SREs have very good salaries.