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> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ? Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by

> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ? Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. There are many providers hosting the ~700B parameter version that aren't CCP aligned.

runako 2y ago
I'm old enough to remember when the US government did something very similar. For years (decades?), we banned any implementation of public-key cryptography under the guise of the technology being akin to munitions. People made shirts with printouts of the code to RSA under the heading "this shirt is a munition." Apparently such shirts are still for sale, even though they are not classified as munitions anymore. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...
- beepbooptheory 2y ago
  I am not that old, but I did a deep dive on this in the past because it was just so extremely fascinating, especially reading the archives of Cypherpunk. There is a very solid, if rather bendy, line connecting all that to "crypto culture" today.
- maeil 2y ago
  Were these implementations already easily open source accessible at the time, with tens of thousands of people already actively using them on their computers? No, right? Doesn't seem feasible this time around.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    Yes they were. The ban was on exporting the code, not having the code in possession. Furthermore it was only the US who had this ban. I am old enough to remember this and the scoffing that European PGP users had towards their American counterparts
    - maeil 2y ago
      Sounds like it was ineffective then, despite an export ban being easier to uphold than what would amount to an import ban?
      - hnlmorg 2y ago
        I don’t think an import ban would be any harder to enforce than an export ban. In fact if anything, I’d expect an import ban to be easier. Though I’m not suggesting an import ban on DeepSeek would be effective either. Just that the US does have precedence pulling these kinds of stunts. You can also look at the 90s subculture for passing DeCSS code (a tool for breaking DVD encryption) to see another example of how people wilfully skirted these kinds of stupid legal limitations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS So if you were to ask me if a ban on DeepSeek would work, the answer is clearly “no”. But that doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen. And if it does, the only people hurt are legitimate US businesses who might get a benefit from DeepSeek but have to follow the law. Those of us outside of America will be completely unaffected. Just like we were when US tried to limit the distribution of GPG.
seizethecheese 2y ago
> Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. Like music? They banned napster
- Denote6737 2y ago
  Yet I can still download music. Check mate.
- bangaladore 2y ago
  Napster was one of thousands, if not 10s of thousands of similar services for music download. And this analogy isn't particularly good. Napster was the server, not the product. Whether you got XYZ from Napster or wherever else doesn't matter, because its the product that you are after, not the way to get the product.

runako 2y ago

I'm old enough to remember when the US government did something very similar. For years (decades?), we banned any implementation of public-key cryptography under the guise of the technology being akin to munitions. People made shirts with printouts of the code to RSA under the heading "this shirt is a munition." Apparently such shirts are still for sale, even though they are not classified as munitions anymore. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...

beepbooptheory 2y ago
I am not that old, but I did a deep dive on this in the past because it was just so extremely fascinating, especially reading the archives of Cypherpunk. There is a very solid, if rather bendy, line connecting all that to "crypto culture" today.
maeil 2y ago
Were these implementations already easily open source accessible at the time, with tens of thousands of people already actively using them on their computers? No, right? Doesn't seem feasible this time around.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  Yes they were. The ban was on exporting the code, not having the code in possession. Furthermore it was only the US who had this ban. I am old enough to remember this and the scoffing that European PGP users had towards their American counterparts
  - maeil 2y ago
    Sounds like it was ineffective then, despite an export ban being easier to uphold than what would amount to an import ban?
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      I don’t think an import ban would be any harder to enforce than an export ban. In fact if anything, I’d expect an import ban to be easier. Though I’m not suggesting an import ban on DeepSeek would be effective either. Just that the US does have precedence pulling these kinds of stunts. You can also look at the 90s subculture for passing DeCSS code (a tool for breaking DVD encryption) to see another example of how people wilfully skirted these kinds of stupid legal limitations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS So if you were to ask me if a ban on DeepSeek would work, the answer is clearly “no”. But that doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen. And if it does, the only people hurt are legitimate US businesses who might get a benefit from DeepSeek but have to follow the law. Those of us outside of America will be completely unaffected. Just like we were when US tried to limit the distribution of GPG.

seizethecheese 2y ago

> Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. Like music? They banned napster

Denote6737 2y ago
Yet I can still download music. Check mate.
bangaladore 2y ago
Napster was one of thousands, if not 10s of thousands of similar services for music download. And this analogy isn't particularly good. Napster was the server, not the product. Whether you got XYZ from Napster or wherever else doesn't matter, because its the product that you are after, not the way to get the product.