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by worik 2y ago

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sangnoir 2y ago
> Banned in the USA. Only. The US government has the wherewithal to drag Europe along with it, like they did with Huawei's 5G equipment.
- roblabla 2y ago
  So far, a general tiktok ban (as opposed to a tiktok ban on things like government phones) has only been in effect in the USA. I highly doubt Europe would play ball at any attempt at banning imports of DeepSeek. Besides, it's kinda too late for this. The model is freely accessible, so any attempt at banning it would be _completely_ moot. If DeepSeek keeps releasing their future models for free, I don't see how a ban could ever be effective at all. Worse case scenario, big tech can't use those models... but then individuals (and startups willing to go fast and break laws) will be able to use them and instantly get a leg up on the competition.
- HotHotLava 2y ago
  Used to. If they're going to start a trade war, pull out of NATO and invade Greenland instead, there'll not be much soft power left to drag Europe anywhere.
- buyucu 2y ago
  And yet, Huawei is still doing fine.
- realusername 2y ago
  Not really anymore, and I would bet that the way things are going, Twitter will be banned in the EU before Tiktok.
- crote 2y ago
  Perhaps a few years ago, yes. But considering that the US president is now threatening to invade and annex part of a European country, I don't think past results can be extrapolated to the present.
dismalaf 2y ago
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- AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
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  - dismalaf 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Tostino 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 2y ago
        Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - FooBarWidget 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - lukev 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - dang 2y ago
        Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Austiiiiii 2y ago
And we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot to do so. If America is forced to use only the clunky corporate-owned American AI at a fee, we'll very quickly fall behind competitors worldwide who use DeepSeek models to produce better results for much, much cheaper. Not to mention it'd defeat the whole purpose of a "free market" economy. (Not that that means much of anything anymore)
- kelnos 2y ago
  It never meant anything. There's no such thing as a free market economy. We haven't had one of those in modern times, and arguably human civilization has never had one. Markets and their participants have chronically been subject to information asymmetry, coercion/manipulation, and regulation, among other things. I don't think all of that is a bad thing (regulation tends to make it harder to do the first two things), but "free markets" are the economic equivalent to the "point mass" in physics: perhaps useful sometimes to create simple models and explanations of things, but will never exist in the real world.
  - worik 2y ago
    Yes, technically and pedantically you are correct. But restricting the trade in micro chips only because the USA is afraid it will loose a technical and commercial edge is a long long way from a free market. It is too late, too. China has broken out and they are ahead in many fields. Not trading chips with them will make them build their own foundries. In two decades they will be as far ahead there as they are in many other fields. If the USA would trade then the technological capacities of China and the USA would stay matched, as they help each other. China ahead in some areas, the USA ahead in others. That would still (probably) not be a pure Free Market but it would be a freer market, and better for everybody except a few elites (on both sides) Madness is taking root
- iforgot22 2y ago
  The Nvidia export restrictions also might be shooting us in the foot too, or at least Nvidia. They really benefit from CUDA remaining the de facto standard.
buyucu 2y ago
I have a Xiaomi phone, a Huawei Matebook and a BYD car. I guess I am pivoting to China after all :)
greenchair 2y ago
world is pretty small as we see with all nations kissing the ring in the last few weeks. pivot away from chinar will accelerate.
dang 2y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42866072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42866072.

[flagged]

by worik 2y ago

[flagged]

> Banned in the USA. Only. The US government has the wherewithal to drag Europe along with it, like they did with Huawei's 5G equipment.

roblabla 2y ago
So far, a general tiktok ban (as opposed to a tiktok ban on things like government phones) has only been in effect in the USA. I highly doubt Europe would play ball at any attempt at banning imports of DeepSeek. Besides, it's kinda too late for this. The model is freely accessible, so any attempt at banning it would be _completely_ moot. If DeepSeek keeps releasing their future models for free, I don't see how a ban could ever be effective at all. Worse case scenario, big tech can't use those models... but then individuals (and startups willing to go fast and break laws) will be able to use them and instantly get a leg up on the competition.
HotHotLava 2y ago
Used to. If they're going to start a trade war, pull out of NATO and invade Greenland instead, there'll not be much soft power left to drag Europe anywhere.
buyucu 2y ago
And yet, Huawei is still doing fine.
realusername 2y ago
Not really anymore, and I would bet that the way things are going, Twitter will be banned in the EU before Tiktok.
crote 2y ago
Perhaps a few years ago, yes. But considering that the US president is now threatening to invade and annex part of a European country, I don't think past results can be extrapolated to the present.

dismalaf 2y ago

[flagged]

AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
[flagged]
- dismalaf 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Tostino 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 2y ago
      Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - FooBarWidget 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - lukev 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - dang 2y ago
      Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Austiiiiii 2y ago

And we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot to do so. If America is forced to use only the clunky corporate-owned American AI at a fee, we'll very quickly fall behind competitors worldwide who use DeepSeek models to produce better results for much, much cheaper. Not to mention it'd defeat the whole purpose of a "free market" economy. (Not that that means much of anything anymore)

kelnos 2y ago
It never meant anything. There's no such thing as a free market economy. We haven't had one of those in modern times, and arguably human civilization has never had one. Markets and their participants have chronically been subject to information asymmetry, coercion/manipulation, and regulation, among other things. I don't think all of that is a bad thing (regulation tends to make it harder to do the first two things), but "free markets" are the economic equivalent to the "point mass" in physics: perhaps useful sometimes to create simple models and explanations of things, but will never exist in the real world.
- worik 2y ago
  Yes, technically and pedantically you are correct. But restricting the trade in micro chips only because the USA is afraid it will loose a technical and commercial edge is a long long way from a free market. It is too late, too. China has broken out and they are ahead in many fields. Not trading chips with them will make them build their own foundries. In two decades they will be as far ahead there as they are in many other fields. If the USA would trade then the technological capacities of China and the USA would stay matched, as they help each other. China ahead in some areas, the USA ahead in others. That would still (probably) not be a pure Free Market but it would be a freer market, and better for everybody except a few elites (on both sides) Madness is taking root
iforgot22 2y ago
The Nvidia export restrictions also might be shooting us in the foot too, or at least Nvidia. They really benefit from CUDA remaining the de facto standard.

buyucu 2y ago

I have a Xiaomi phone, a Huawei Matebook and a BYD car. I guess I am pivoting to China after all :)

greenchair 2y ago

world is pretty small as we see with all nations kissing the ring in the last few weeks. pivot away from chinar will accelerate.

dang 2y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42866072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42866072.