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I really wish Java had been like 5 years ahead on its modernizing push. That 10 year gap between 5 and 8 where the language barely changed, while competitor

I really wish Java had been like 5 years ahead on its modernizing push. That 10 year gap between 5 and 8 where the language __barely__ changed, while competitor languages were blasting, were just killer. Some might argue the reason the 8+ renaissance has been so successful is because it let other languages beta test, and Java took the winning ideas. Maybe so. But it gave Golang time to get big, which I like a lot less than Java. Especially when people try to use it as anything but a scripting language for grpc and a runtime for protobuf. But I think with virtual threads, esp when they work with synchronized right, will finally put Java back on top of Go. People complain about Java, but imo Java's problems are mostly accidental and acknowledged, and they do often get improved or fixed. Whereas Go seems to mostly be happy with how it is exactly right now, and are loathe to improve the many pain points. So much gocode is needlessly obtuse, and it's not like the obtuseness actually accomplishes their goal. I've still seen just god-awful Gocode, with layers and layers of interfaces in between you and getting anything done. Very java-esque, despite their OOP resistance being specifically targeting not falling prey to Java's propensity for towering class hierarchies.

bane 2y ago
Well there was also like 10-15 year period where Java was taken over by enterprise factoryClassFactoryFactoryClassFizzBuzz architectural cancer that really made things suck as a want to be user of the language. If you just stuck to the core language and the JVM, it's kind of always been a nice place to code even if the language was changing glacially.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  Where can I learn about modern Java like you describe? I only remember Java from the days of "enterprise factoryClassFactoryFactoryClassFizzBuzz architectural cancer" and I hate the language due to that old memory, but I'm willing to try again. A lot of companies are using it in the industry I'm in, and it would be worthwhile to learn, but searching Google for Java resources is as much cancer as the enterprise stuff is.
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    Your question seems odd to me. You had to learn to write AbstractFactoryFactoryService. Just forget it? You don't need a book. If you're used to writing nice concise code in other languages, just keep doing that, but in Java.
    - renewedrebecca 2y ago
      Exactly. I've been using Java since 2000, and I haven't once written an AbstractFactoryFactoryService. To be fair, I skipped over early versions of Spring.
    - goalieca 2y ago
      The ecosystem rewards inheritance and patterns. The language is and always was highly opinionated about OOP which is a flawed paradigm.
      - stickfigure 2y ago
        The Java ecosystem is vast and there is very little you can say about it generally. It's trivially easy to write Java programs without (ab)using inheritance. It's trivially easy to write Java programs in a functional style. There are countless libraries that will provide just about any programming interface you like, the only hard part is picking.
  - syspec 2y ago
    This is the classic example: https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... I've tried to follow along with it, but man I just can't - it's that crazy. It does work though
  - bane 2y ago
    I haven't used it myself, but I've heard good things about Spring Boot. For other stuff I usually just write in a dialect I like to use, and be very selective about libraries and other bits I use. It's fortunate that the standard library isn't very ClassFactory and is pretty batteries included so you can get a lot done without too much fuss. In many ways it's not terribly dissimilar to how one might approach using C++ or Perl or any other big language with lots of different ways to do things that you can pick and choose from.

I really wish Java had been like 5 years ahead on its modernizing push. That 10 year gap between 5 and 8 where the language __barely__ changed, while competitor

bane 2y ago

Well there was also like 10-15 year period where Java was taken over by enterprise factoryClassFactoryFactoryClassFizzBuzz architectural cancer that really made things suck as a want to be user of the language. If you just stuck to the core language and the JVM, it's kind of always been a nice place to code even if the language was changing glacially.

ok_dad 2y ago
Where can I learn about modern Java like you describe? I only remember Java from the days of "enterprise factoryClassFactoryFactoryClassFizzBuzz architectural cancer" and I hate the language due to that old memory, but I'm willing to try again. A lot of companies are using it in the industry I'm in, and it would be worthwhile to learn, but searching Google for Java resources is as much cancer as the enterprise stuff is.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  Your question seems odd to me. You had to learn to write AbstractFactoryFactoryService. Just forget it? You don't need a book. If you're used to writing nice concise code in other languages, just keep doing that, but in Java.
  - renewedrebecca 2y ago
    Exactly. I've been using Java since 2000, and I haven't once written an AbstractFactoryFactoryService. To be fair, I skipped over early versions of Spring.
  - goalieca 2y ago
    The ecosystem rewards inheritance and patterns. The language is and always was highly opinionated about OOP which is a flawed paradigm.
    - stickfigure 2y ago
      The Java ecosystem is vast and there is very little you can say about it generally. It's trivially easy to write Java programs without (ab)using inheritance. It's trivially easy to write Java programs in a functional style. There are countless libraries that will provide just about any programming interface you like, the only hard part is picking.
- syspec 2y ago
  This is the classic example: https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... I've tried to follow along with it, but man I just can't - it's that crazy. It does work though
- bane 2y ago
  I haven't used it myself, but I've heard good things about Spring Boot. For other stuff I usually just write in a dialect I like to use, and be very selective about libraries and other bits I use. It's fortunate that the standard library isn't very ClassFactory and is pretty batteries included so you can get a lot done without too much fuss. In many ways it's not terribly dissimilar to how one might approach using C++ or Perl or any other big language with lots of different ways to do things that you can pick and choose from.