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I know someone who works at a public library in a small city. A lot of their work is "managing" homeless, mentally ill, and drug addicted customers who are attr

I know someone who works at a public library in a small city. A lot of their work is "managing" homeless, mentally ill, and drug addicted customers who are attracted by shelter and free computers and internet. I don't particularly have a problem with public funds going toward that, but I don't think library staff are trained or signed up for that work, or that libraries are an appropriate and cost effective way to help these people. I don't think libraries should be sacred. They're nice to look at and nostalgic, but are increasingly anachronisms. Specialized facilities for higher education and historical research I can see still having some use, perhaps small school libraries, but the average public library not so much. They use a lot of space, a lot of floor space for books, requires staffing.

bombcar 2y ago
The really small towns around here have the library in the same building as the community center and police station. Seems to help somewhat.
jgoodhcg 2y ago
I think the article linked is saying that libraries should be sacred _because_ they are nice to be in. They make people feel better about their life and the world based on some seemingly rigorous survey results. IMO the mindset that everything everything has to be optimized to not use up “too much floor space” if it presumably doesn’t return enough measurable value is the kind of mentality that causes societal issues that we need nice libraries to counteract.
- starspangled 2y ago
  > I think the article linked is saying that libraries should be sacred _because_ they are nice to be in. Yeah, and I'm saying they shouldn't be. > They make people feel better about their life and the world based on some seemingly rigorous survey results. > IMO the mindset that everything everything has to be optimized to not use up “too much floor space” if it presumably doesn’t return enough measurable value is the kind of mentality that causes societal issues that we need nice libraries to counteract. It's not that it's too much floor space, it's that it costs too much for the benefit it provides. With government expenditure in western countries approaching or even exceeding 40% of GDP with no sign of slowing and social problems that seem to be worse than ever in some cases, I would say that efficiency of government service delivery is critically important. It's not even hyper optimizing, just basic optimizing would be nice.
  - joebig 2y ago
    I get your point and posit thus: What about National Parks? Should they be sacred or should they too be butchered for 'floor space'? Large organized spaces relieve cognitive load, remove subconscious restrictions that we impose on ourselves and expand the mind. With no limits placed on the eye, the limits on the spirit dissolve as well. Nothing feels impossible. If this is not worth pursuing 'at all costs', if even this is subject to 'optimization', if unshackling of the intellect is 'not sacred': then let's begin with reclaiming land occupied by the Hagia Sophia and La Sagrada Familia.
    - starspangled 2y ago
      No I don't think national parks should be sacred, but I don't think they or public libraries should "be butchered for 'floor space'". I think options should always be measured and considered.
      - computerthings 2y ago
        Libraries aren't sacred to begin with. They're not like cows in India (if not in reality, then proverbially), popping up wherever they please, and nobody can do anything about it. Oh well, had this nice business here, but then someone opened a library, and since they are sacred, we had to move. That's not the situation. Libraries taking up too much floor space doesn't mean much, since so does anything else. At the same time, they and all other things also take up too little floor space, since "taking up floor space" by itself doesn't really mean anything I can discern. Libraries are unique, and valuable; what other unique and valuable thing does their existence prevent? To measure things you need at least two things. Maybe even three: an object to measure, a scale or another object to compare to, and some sort of heuristic as to what the result might mean (for you). It's pointless to say that it doesn't satisfy your standards of "usefulness" or what exactly your concern is, if you don't share those standards.
        starspangled 2y ago
        I'm not sure what comment you are actually attempting to address.
matwood 2y ago
I agree with you that librarians have a very hard job. I also think from a budgeting standpoint that public libraries overspend on best sellers, but that’s a different comment. Hah. > I don't think libraries should be sacred. An old business partner used to ask, “what dies first, democracy or the library?” Libraries represent democracy and the free flow of information. Their analog nature makes them much harder to turn off or alter than a website. It’s no surprise the new admin called book bans “hoaxes” so they can continue. I fear we may learn the answer to my friend’s question.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
knowitnone 2y ago
don't forget free power outlets to charge their devices.
librarian-guy 2y ago
Homeless people are still people. The public library is one of the few places they are allowed without being judged. Yes, there are mental health issues and libraries are not meant to "manage" them. However, providing a means for no-cost life-long learning for everyone is essential to their mission. The idea of the public library you have is outdated. Try visiting your local library and see how they have changed.
Miraste 2y ago
Homeless people go to libraries because libraries are the only public space left that hasn't been commodified and commercialized. Killing them in the name of even higher profits is not a solution.

bombcar 2y ago

The really small towns around here have the library in the same building as the community center and police station. Seems to help somewhat.

jgoodhcg 2y ago

I think the article linked is saying that libraries should be sacred _because_ they are nice to be in. They make people feel better about their life and the world based on some seemingly rigorous survey results. IMO the mindset that everything everything has to be optimized to not use up “too much floor space” if it presumably doesn’t return enough measurable value is the kind of mentality that causes societal issues that we need nice libraries to counteract.

starspangled 2y ago
> I think the article linked is saying that libraries should be sacred _because_ they are nice to be in. Yeah, and I'm saying they shouldn't be. > They make people feel better about their life and the world based on some seemingly rigorous survey results. > IMO the mindset that everything everything has to be optimized to not use up “too much floor space” if it presumably doesn’t return enough measurable value is the kind of mentality that causes societal issues that we need nice libraries to counteract. It's not that it's too much floor space, it's that it costs too much for the benefit it provides. With government expenditure in western countries approaching or even exceeding 40% of GDP with no sign of slowing and social problems that seem to be worse than ever in some cases, I would say that efficiency of government service delivery is critically important. It's not even hyper optimizing, just basic optimizing would be nice.
- joebig 2y ago
  I get your point and posit thus: What about National Parks? Should they be sacred or should they too be butchered for 'floor space'? Large organized spaces relieve cognitive load, remove subconscious restrictions that we impose on ourselves and expand the mind. With no limits placed on the eye, the limits on the spirit dissolve as well. Nothing feels impossible. If this is not worth pursuing 'at all costs', if even this is subject to 'optimization', if unshackling of the intellect is 'not sacred': then let's begin with reclaiming land occupied by the Hagia Sophia and La Sagrada Familia.
  - starspangled 2y ago
    No I don't think national parks should be sacred, but I don't think they or public libraries should "be butchered for 'floor space'". I think options should always be measured and considered.
    - computerthings 2y ago
      Libraries aren't sacred to begin with. They're not like cows in India (if not in reality, then proverbially), popping up wherever they please, and nobody can do anything about it. Oh well, had this nice business here, but then someone opened a library, and since they are sacred, we had to move. That's not the situation. Libraries taking up too much floor space doesn't mean much, since so does anything else. At the same time, they and all other things also take up too little floor space, since "taking up floor space" by itself doesn't really mean anything I can discern. Libraries are unique, and valuable; what other unique and valuable thing does their existence prevent? To measure things you need at least two things. Maybe even three: an object to measure, a scale or another object to compare to, and some sort of heuristic as to what the result might mean (for you). It's pointless to say that it doesn't satisfy your standards of "usefulness" or what exactly your concern is, if you don't share those standards.
      - starspangled 2y ago
        I'm not sure what comment you are actually attempting to address.

matwood 2y ago

I agree with you that librarians have a very hard job. I also think from a budgeting standpoint that public libraries overspend on best sellers, but that’s a different comment. Hah. > I don't think libraries should be sacred. An old business partner used to ask, “what dies first, democracy or the library?” Libraries represent democracy and the free flow of information. Their analog nature makes them much harder to turn off or alter than a website. It’s no surprise the new admin called book bans “hoaxes” so they can continue. I fear we may learn the answer to my friend’s question.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

knowitnone 2y ago

don't forget free power outlets to charge their devices.

librarian-guy 2y ago

Homeless people are still people. The public library is one of the few places they are allowed without being judged. Yes, there are mental health issues and libraries are not meant to "manage" them. However, providing a means for no-cost life-long learning for everyone is essential to their mission. The idea of the public library you have is outdated. Try visiting your local library and see how they have changed.

Miraste 2y ago

Homeless people go to libraries because libraries are the only public space left that hasn't been commodified and commercialized. Killing them in the name of even higher profits is not a solution.