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Last week The Washington Post cited anonymous US intelligence officials as saying these anchor drags are probably accidents. Its byline paints it as a growing

Last week The Washington Post cited anonymous US intelligence officials as saying these anchor drags are probably accidents. Its byline paints it as a growing opinion in European intelligence circles too: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/01/19/russia-baltic-undersea-cables-accidents-sabotage/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/01/19/russia-balti... This is very much at odds with the government stances in the Baltic. So what is the political messaging happening in the US and why?

lawn 2y ago
Washington Post is simply eating up Russian propaganda. Don't be so gullible.
wasmitnetzen 2y ago
My personal theory is that the cable owners don't want this to be an "act of war" because then their insurance doesn't pay.
tomalaci 2y ago
As if. The ship Finland seized some time ago was loaded with spy equipment [0]. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a Russian spy. [0] https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cutting-tanker-seized-by-Finland-was-loaded-with-spying-equipment https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cut...
- jakewins 2y ago
  Finnish authorities denied those reports in Lloyds List FWIW: https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/3fa30bba-6925-49ac-8c49-ce191ce0ab00 https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/3fa30bba-6925-49ac-8c49-c... But also yeah, the opinion of authorities I see quoted in Swedish and Finnish press has been very clear they don’t think this is accidental. I’ve lived by the Baltic for much of my life, had many many years of nothing like this, then suddenly every week Russian ships “accidentally” cuts critical cables. No reason to spread rumours, that’s how seeds of doubt are sown; the evidence is plain as day without manufactured stories
  - powerhugs 2y ago
    Shrug at HN. This comment is correct & shouldn't be downvoted.
- willvarfar 2y ago
  The Lloyds List article says that there had been sailings with spooks aboard (including, confusingly, Turkish intelligence agents?). It did not say that the trip where the ship was seized was one of those sailings.
Etheryte 2y ago
This, I feel, is along the same lines as CIA suddenly preferring the lab leak argument as soon as the admin changed [0]. Clearly the cable breaks are not accidents when previously there weren't any for years and now in the last year we've had so many that I've lost count. I think we're now up to six or seven times cables have been broken with an anchor? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42823385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42823385
- diggan 2y ago
  > Clearly the cable breaks are not accidents when previously there weren't any for years and now in the last year we've had so many that I've lost count. Has there really been no other accidents like these? It feels like this is something that been happening for a long time, but not until recently the news started reporting on it. I seem to remember some event back in 2022 already, around Bornholm I think. I'm sure there are more as well, damaged communication lines seems to happen all the time.
  - eptcyka 2y ago
    There have been accidents like this, but they were few and far between. There have not been this many accidents in such a short timespan, limited to such a small geographical area. There have been ships that have lost their anchors doing this, they've been shown to drag their anchors over the cables multiple times. These are deliberate actions.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > These are deliberate actions. Have any of them actually been confirmed to be deliberate actions, or is this your hypothesis? Last time I checked on older incidents, they seem to all have been proper accidents, but I haven't checked on the last ones. > There have not been this many accidents in such a short timespan, limited to such a small geographical area. Yeah, ~7 events in the last 12 months (or what it is) does sound like a lot. I'm having a hard time finding some credible source listing all incidents though, so we could compare year-by-year, because I'm sure the news also reports a lot more about it, than before.
cm2187 2y ago
Sounds more like a way to not call it an act of war, but why would a ship drag an anchor like that? And why does this happen so frequently at a time of hostility between Russia and Europe?
KingOfCoders 2y ago
Read that too, but then I wonder how a ship goes slow, dragging an anchor for miles, not near a port, not near an anchoring point, but at sea, and it is an accident? How?
- boredhedgehog 2y ago
  It didn't sound plausible to me either, but then I found stories like these: https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/report-tug-dragged-6-ton-anchor-days-after-denting-line-5-pipeline https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/report-t... So what sounds to me like an unbelievable level of incompetence is not that unlikely.
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Thanks!
qwertox 2y ago
Then let's "accident" and not sabotage those ships until they learn to take care of their anchors.
- codingbot3000 2y ago
  They tend to be loaded with oil, you don't want them to "accident".
mcv 2y ago
How are there suddenly lots of these kind of accidents out of nowhere? I understand pro-Russian outlets want people to believe that, but I find it very hard to believe that intelligence agencies would honestly believe that. Personally I think nations on the Baltic should simply ban Russian or Russian-originating ships from their waters. And if they really want to pretend these "accidents" are caused by a sudden use of inexperienced crews, set some standards for crew training and expertise for ships sailing through their waters. Require them to hire experienced crew that know these waters well. Inspect them at the very least. Just allowing the sabotage to continue is a bad idea.
- BrandoElFollito 2y ago
  The national waters are a few hundred nautical miles wide, they do not cover all of the sea. I guess international waters is where the incidents happen.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The territorial sea is 12nmi (22km) from the coast. Even where this covers the whole distance (e.g. Denmark and Sweden) foreign ships still have the right to pass through. You are thinking of the EEZ, exclusive economic zone, but that's only the rights for fishing and mining and so on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
  - mcv 2y ago
    Yeah, but ships can't get to the center of the Baltic without passing through the national waters of Denmark, Finland or Estonia. Current treaties allow all ships through those waters, but if that access is abused for sabotage, maybe it's time to revisit the treaties.
    - cocodill 2y ago
      Be careful what you wish for. Blocking the waterways would provide Russia with a legitimate reason for war or at least lead to a resolution of the blockade with force. That is insane. Nobody even considered that during the Cold War. If the damage to the cables wasn't an accident, the damage was pretty minor. This is in no way comparable to the blowing up of the Nord Stream gas pipeline, which was certainly not an accident.
nonrandomstring 2y ago
> The Washington Post cited anonymous US intelligence officials That sounds like a reliable source from a reputable publication. /s Once is an accident. Twice is carelessness. Three times is enemy action. What are we up to now? 4 or 5 in as many months?
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Washington Post is not a reliable source because it's owned by Jeff Bezos, and billionaires should be mistrusted. And the "source" is worthless as they could be completely made up. Anonymous US intelligence officials have told me that I am the greatest and most attractive person ever to have existed.
rebuilder 2y ago
The statements from the Finnish law enforcement agencies are basically that there is no evidence that the cables were intentionally cut. Then there’s reports citing “sources” in agencies that the incidents are thought to be accidental. Basically, I’m not sure the reporting is properly distinguishing between “no evidence of wrongdoing” and “it was an accident”. It wouldn’t be surprising that it would be very difficult to find evidence that an anchor was intentionally dragged across a cable vs. accidentally.
- xinayder 2y ago
  Then there's China filing a patent for an underwater cable cutting technology. This can't be just a coincidence. Cable and pipeline cutting near the Baltics have increased sharply since the war started in 2022.
hkpack 2y ago
It is the show of power. Same as with Musk doing nazi salute and no official can call him out on this. Russia can break cables, and no official can call them out on what they are doing.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
[flagged]
drawkward 2y ago
Who just became the US president last week?
- lostmsu 2y ago
  Tigger?
rightbyte 2y ago
These cables are the new "hackers from X".
lupusreal 2y ago
> The Post's report was received with skepticism by some in Finland. Pekka Toveri, former head of Finland's military intelligence agency, told the paper that the accidental-damage theory was "total B.S." > "The most important thing in any hybrid operation is deniability," Toveri said, explaining how the incidents might have an accidental appearance. He pointed to the ships' anomalous movements and the well-funded, decadal Russian intelligence effort to map out NATO's seabed infrastructure vulnerabilities. > Finnish National Bureau of Investigation inspector Sami Liimatainen, who is involved in the ongoing inquiry aboard Eagle S, gave a dismissive reply when asked about the Post's accidental-damage explanation. "I'm not even going to comment on that, I'll leave the information from foreign newspapers at their own value. The Finnish National Police is investigating the crime," Liimatainen told YLE. "Crimes are being investigated and solved. Nothing has changed." https://maritime-executive.com/article/report-u-s-convinced-that-eagle-s-cable-incident-was-accidental https://maritime-executive.com/article/report-u-s-convinced-...
bufferoverflow 2y ago
Nonsense. There have been 3 or 4 major cable cuttings by anchor dragging in just a few weeks. All connected to Russia.
hsuduebc2 2y ago
I absolutely don't understand the point of doing this but this much "accident's" in such a short time doing harm for enemies of russia are very suspicious.

lawn 2y ago

Washington Post is simply eating up Russian propaganda. Don't be so gullible.

wasmitnetzen 2y ago

My personal theory is that the cable owners don't want this to be an "act of war" because then their insurance doesn't pay.

tomalaci 2y ago

As if. The ship Finland seized some time ago was loaded with spy equipment [0]. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a Russian spy. [0] https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cutting-tanker-seized-by-Finland-was-loaded-with-spying-equipment https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cut...

jakewins 2y ago
Finnish authorities denied those reports in Lloyds List FWIW: https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/3fa30bba-6925-49ac-8c49-ce191ce0ab00 https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/3fa30bba-6925-49ac-8c49-c... But also yeah, the opinion of authorities I see quoted in Swedish and Finnish press has been very clear they don’t think this is accidental. I’ve lived by the Baltic for much of my life, had many many years of nothing like this, then suddenly every week Russian ships “accidentally” cuts critical cables. No reason to spread rumours, that’s how seeds of doubt are sown; the evidence is plain as day without manufactured stories
- powerhugs 2y ago
  Shrug at HN. This comment is correct & shouldn't be downvoted.
willvarfar 2y ago
The Lloyds List article says that there had been sailings with spooks aboard (including, confusingly, Turkish intelligence agents?). It did not say that the trip where the ship was seized was one of those sailings.

Etheryte 2y ago

This, I feel, is along the same lines as CIA suddenly preferring the lab leak argument as soon as the admin changed [0]. Clearly the cable breaks are not accidents when previously there weren't any for years and now in the last year we've had so many that I've lost count. I think we're now up to six or seven times cables have been broken with an anchor? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42823385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42823385

diggan 2y ago
> Clearly the cable breaks are not accidents when previously there weren't any for years and now in the last year we've had so many that I've lost count. Has there really been no other accidents like these? It feels like this is something that been happening for a long time, but not until recently the news started reporting on it. I seem to remember some event back in 2022 already, around Bornholm I think. I'm sure there are more as well, damaged communication lines seems to happen all the time.
- eptcyka 2y ago
  There have been accidents like this, but they were few and far between. There have not been this many accidents in such a short timespan, limited to such a small geographical area. There have been ships that have lost their anchors doing this, they've been shown to drag their anchors over the cables multiple times. These are deliberate actions.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > These are deliberate actions. Have any of them actually been confirmed to be deliberate actions, or is this your hypothesis? Last time I checked on older incidents, they seem to all have been proper accidents, but I haven't checked on the last ones. > There have not been this many accidents in such a short timespan, limited to such a small geographical area. Yeah, ~7 events in the last 12 months (or what it is) does sound like a lot. I'm having a hard time finding some credible source listing all incidents though, so we could compare year-by-year, because I'm sure the news also reports a lot more about it, than before.

cm2187 2y ago

Sounds more like a way to not call it an act of war, but why would a ship drag an anchor like that? And why does this happen so frequently at a time of hostility between Russia and Europe?

KingOfCoders 2y ago

Read that too, but then I wonder how a ship goes slow, dragging an anchor for miles, not near a port, not near an anchoring point, but at sea, and it is an accident? How?

boredhedgehog 2y ago
It didn't sound plausible to me either, but then I found stories like these: https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/report-tug-dragged-6-ton-anchor-days-after-denting-line-5-pipeline https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/report-t... So what sounds to me like an unbelievable level of incompetence is not that unlikely.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Thanks!

qwertox 2y ago

Then let's "accident" and not sabotage those ships until they learn to take care of their anchors.

codingbot3000 2y ago
They tend to be loaded with oil, you don't want them to "accident".

mcv 2y ago

How are there suddenly lots of these kind of accidents out of nowhere? I understand pro-Russian outlets want people to believe that, but I find it very hard to believe that intelligence agencies would honestly believe that. Personally I think nations on the Baltic should simply ban Russian or Russian-originating ships from their waters. And if they really want to pretend these "accidents" are caused by a sudden use of inexperienced crews, set some standards for crew training and expertise for ships sailing through their waters. Require them to hire experienced crew that know these waters well. Inspect them at the very least. Just allowing the sabotage to continue is a bad idea.

BrandoElFollito 2y ago
The national waters are a few hundred nautical miles wide, they do not cover all of the sea. I guess international waters is where the incidents happen.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  The territorial sea is 12nmi (22km) from the coast. Even where this covers the whole distance (e.g. Denmark and Sweden) foreign ships still have the right to pass through. You are thinking of the EEZ, exclusive economic zone, but that's only the rights for fishing and mining and so on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
- mcv 2y ago
  Yeah, but ships can't get to the center of the Baltic without passing through the national waters of Denmark, Finland or Estonia. Current treaties allow all ships through those waters, but if that access is abused for sabotage, maybe it's time to revisit the treaties.
  - cocodill 2y ago
    Be careful what you wish for. Blocking the waterways would provide Russia with a legitimate reason for war or at least lead to a resolution of the blockade with force. That is insane. Nobody even considered that during the Cold War. If the damage to the cables wasn't an accident, the damage was pretty minor. This is in no way comparable to the blowing up of the Nord Stream gas pipeline, which was certainly not an accident.

nonrandomstring 2y ago

> The Washington Post cited anonymous US intelligence officials That sounds like a reliable source from a reputable publication. /s Once is an accident. Twice is carelessness. Three times is enemy action. What are we up to now? 4 or 5 in as many months?

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Washington Post is not a reliable source because it's owned by Jeff Bezos, and billionaires should be mistrusted. And the "source" is worthless as they could be completely made up. Anonymous US intelligence officials have told me that I am the greatest and most attractive person ever to have existed.

rebuilder 2y ago

The statements from the Finnish law enforcement agencies are basically that there is no evidence that the cables were intentionally cut. Then there’s reports citing “sources” in agencies that the incidents are thought to be accidental. Basically, I’m not sure the reporting is properly distinguishing between “no evidence of wrongdoing” and “it was an accident”. It wouldn’t be surprising that it would be very difficult to find evidence that an anchor was intentionally dragged across a cable vs. accidentally.

xinayder 2y ago
Then there's China filing a patent for an underwater cable cutting technology. This can't be just a coincidence. Cable and pipeline cutting near the Baltics have increased sharply since the war started in 2022.

hkpack 2y ago

It is the show of power. Same as with Musk doing nazi salute and no official can call him out on this. Russia can break cables, and no official can call them out on what they are doing.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

[flagged]

drawkward 2y ago

Who just became the US president last week?

lostmsu 2y ago
Tigger?

rightbyte 2y ago

These cables are the new "hackers from X".

lupusreal 2y ago

> The Post's report was received with skepticism by some in Finland. Pekka Toveri, former head of Finland's military intelligence agency, told the paper that the accidental-damage theory was "total B.S." > "The most important thing in any hybrid operation is deniability," Toveri said, explaining how the incidents might have an accidental appearance. He pointed to the ships' anomalous movements and the well-funded, decadal Russian intelligence effort to map out NATO's seabed infrastructure vulnerabilities. > Finnish National Bureau of Investigation inspector Sami Liimatainen, who is involved in the ongoing inquiry aboard Eagle S, gave a dismissive reply when asked about the Post's accidental-damage explanation. "I'm not even going to comment on that, I'll leave the information from foreign newspapers at their own value. The Finnish National Police is investigating the crime," Liimatainen told YLE. "Crimes are being investigated and solved. Nothing has changed." https://maritime-executive.com/article/report-u-s-convinced-that-eagle-s-cable-incident-was-accidental https://maritime-executive.com/article/report-u-s-convinced-...

bufferoverflow 2y ago

Nonsense. There have been 3 or 4 major cable cuttings by anchor dragging in just a few weeks. All connected to Russia.

hsuduebc2 2y ago

I absolutely don't understand the point of doing this but this much "accident's" in such a short time doing harm for enemies of russia are very suspicious.