4 ms·

The distinction between protocol and implementation IS significant here. Imagine comparing HTTP1.1 vs HTTP3. These are protocols, but in practice one compares

The distinction between protocol and implementation IS significant here. Imagine comparing HTTP1.1 vs HTTP3. These are protocols, but in practice one compares implementations. I can pick curl for http1.1, but Python for http3, and http3 would very likely measures as slower. Is that the protocols fault?

cwillu 2y ago
All this proves is that it's possible for a protocol to not be the determining factor; which says nothing about whether it's possible that it _is_ a determining factor.
- WhyNotHugo 2y ago
  You’re quite right. We’d need similar benchmarks done with other compositors. I very much doubt that Wayland makes a difference for this test; Wayland is for IPC between the client and server. Moving the cursor around is done by the server, without needing to talk to the client.
sshine 2y ago
>> ”well acksually wayland is just the name of the protocol" […] is a symptom of the underlying problem > well acksually It’s not the protocol’s fault, but the system and organisation that brought it.
- bandrami 2y ago
  Which brings up the other problem that Wayland introduced, that instead of one incredibly old inscrutable software stack doing these things there are now five (and counting!) new and insufficiently tested software stacks doing these things in slightly different ways.
  - jorvi 2y ago
    It would have been nice if KDE and Valve could (would?) work together to reimplement KWin's features on top of wlroots. That would have basically made Gnome the sole holdout, and I imagine they'd eventually have switched to the extended wlroots as well, or at least forked it.
    - bandrami 2y ago
      There's also EFL and one other I'm forgetting at the moment, but yeah.
mdedetrich 2y ago
It most definitely can be because the design of the protocol can force a bound on how performant it can be. While its true that certain implementations of HTTP can be faster or slower, even the best implementations of HTTP 1.1 (for example) are quite slow when you compare it to the alternatives. I know this because I worked at a place which was entirely based around microservices using Rest HTTP as the protocol/interface, some teams had to use alternate methods because HTTP protocol was the bottleneck.

cwillu 2y ago

All this proves is that it's possible for a protocol to not be the determining factor; which says nothing about whether it's possible that it _is_ a determining factor.

WhyNotHugo 2y ago
You’re quite right. We’d need similar benchmarks done with other compositors. I very much doubt that Wayland makes a difference for this test; Wayland is for IPC between the client and server. Moving the cursor around is done by the server, without needing to talk to the client.

sshine 2y ago

>> ”well acksually wayland is just the name of the protocol" […] is a symptom of the underlying problem > well acksually It’s not the protocol’s fault, but the system and organisation that brought it.

bandrami 2y ago
Which brings up the other problem that Wayland introduced, that instead of one incredibly old inscrutable software stack doing these things there are now five (and counting!) new and insufficiently tested software stacks doing these things in slightly different ways.
- jorvi 2y ago
  It would have been nice if KDE and Valve could (would?) work together to reimplement KWin's features on top of wlroots. That would have basically made Gnome the sole holdout, and I imagine they'd eventually have switched to the extended wlroots as well, or at least forked it.
  - bandrami 2y ago
    There's also EFL and one other I'm forgetting at the moment, but yeah.

mdedetrich 2y ago

It most definitely can be because the design of the protocol can force a bound on how performant it can be. While its true that certain implementations of HTTP can be faster or slower, even the best implementations of HTTP 1.1 (for example) are quite slow when you compare it to the alternatives. I know this because I worked at a place which was entirely based around microservices using Rest HTTP as the protocol/interface, some teams had to use alternate methods because HTTP protocol was the bottleneck.