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The South Vietnamese pilot who landed a Cessna on a carrier to save his family (2019)
- gedy 2y agoIf you ever have a chance, talk to Vietnamese immigrants that you work with, and hear their stories of escape. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has a book or movie-worthy tale to tell. Many went through tough times after the war was over and left years later.
- wbl 2y agoYup: many settled in southern coastal states and endured vicious racism aimed at keeping them from shrimping.
- selimthegrim 2y agoMany are still here in Louisiana and Texas. But in Louisiana and New Orleans the population is shrinking.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoFrom 2.3% in 2010 to 1.8% in 2020 of Louisiana’s population.
- louky 2y agoI remember seeing women on the sides of the highway in one part of town gathering plants to eat, there's plenty of edible stuff out there, and my parents telling me they were refugees. Must have been in '74/'75 and I was a wee lad. In a Southern state. My parents were PhDs from Berkley and UCLA who got positions in the south so it was a weird time and place. For everyone.
- Amezarak 2y agoThere's no doubt that racism played a role, but a lot of the bitterness was more related to the fact that a huge influx of people, some of them very desperate, arrived and worked in the shrimping industry for low wages and in terrible conditions. This cut the rest of of the labor market off at the knees. Suddenly a lot of people who had had the job for years, and had maybe been doing it for generations as a family trade, either lost their job or were unable to carry it out profitably.
- fsckboy 2y ago[flagged]
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- stonesthrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
- gedy 2y agoNot sure what your issue is but it's pretty insulting to a lot of people.
- stonesthrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
- esperent 2y agoIt's a symptom of current US politics, sadly. I expect it's gonna get worse before it gets better. The best approach, IMO, is to flag, downvote, and move on. Don't engage, don't get in arguments. I don't mean this in general, just on HN which is not intended to be a political space. For some people, reactionary politics has become their entire world and it's important to show them this doesn't get the reaction they desire here.
- stevenwoo 2y agoThe Sympathizer/The Committed though fictional have many details that match the stories of different people I know, with the taking off from Saigon airfield while under attack from NVA to others escaping on a boat with only the hope of being picked up by friendlies of some stripe and avoiding pirates or others who could only escape in any case with some of their immediate family and had to get the rest reunited years later. Not a few of the ones old enough to remember the details though are getting scarce simply because of age (some of the people I know were too young to remember anything and had to rely on their parents memories).
- technothrasher 2y agoI worked with a Vietnamese lady for many years. She refused to ever talk about her escape. She would simply only say, "I was very young. It was bad. I don't like to remember it."
- newsclues 2y agoMy grandmother said the same thing about the end of the Second World War as a young German and wouldn’t elaborate.
- csomar 2y agoThe brain has this nice thing of removing traumatizing memories so that it can move on. Asking people about these things is not a good idea. Just let them recount the tales if they want.
- yieldcrv 2y agothe 'luxury' apt building I live in has lots of Ukrainians and Russians (amongst the tech, influencers and onlyfans merchants, the only stateside people that can seemingly afford this location) the men have really harrowing stories of escaping their respective countries since they weren't allowed to leave, being draftable and its all very current and ongoing
- reaperducer 2y agothe 'luxury' apt building I live in has lots of Ukrainians and Russians… the men have really harrowing stories of escaping their respective countries since they weren't allowed to leave, being draftable My next-door neighbor is one of them. We were on nodding terms in the hallway for about six months after he moved in, then one day I saw him at the trash chute wearing a "Fuck Putin" shirt, and I asked him about it. He started to tell me his story, and then suddenly stopped, saying he didn't want to talk about it anymore. Based on the start of the story, I can understand him not wanting to finish it.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoWere they Russian or Ukrainian? My casual understanding is that the draft is much more significant in Ukraine, although it's hard to find details of it and the penalties for dodgers.
- StefanBatory 2y agoRussians could leave way easier than Ukrainians, though.
- throwaway290 2y agoI can confirm friends coming in/out of Russia without much change. All IT workers are exempted from mobilization. People after 30 yo are safe from draft. Yonger are supposed to be draftable but I know someone who is 2x yo and went to visit Russia, fly in and out with no issues. The only difference is airplane tickets more expensive now. Meanwhile men in Ukraine can be mobilized on the street and good luck leaving the country
- wazoox 2y agoThat applies equally to most people having been through war and becoming refugees. I know a couple of people who fled from Afghanistan, and that wasn't exactly a cakewalk. Like "my brother was forced to enroll in the talibans and got killed, so they ordered my father to provide another fighter, so he decided to make me escape to Iran instead at age 13, from where I walked / hitchhiked to Sweden in 2 years"
- whimsicalism 2y agowas the taliban going to follow into all of the EU countries in between Iran and Sweden?
- frozenport 2y agoI did speak to folks on the North Vietnamese side. I kinda found it really interesting. They read these stories of escape as emblematic of the southern government’s cowardice rather than heroism. In some ways these are stories of active military deserting their posts. It was no surprise to these North Vietnamese patriots that they triumphed.
- duxup 2y agoI like to think if I saw an opponent escaping a lost war with his family I would understand that someone who served is not a coward.
- bluGill 2y agoNot a good idea since they might be regrouping to fight another day. war is aweful.
- snozolli 2y agoGiven the acts of brutality committed by the VC against those who didn't willingly join their cause, I wouldn't have stuck around with my family, either. One example from, as I recall, early in the division was burning alive the mayor of a village that refused to adopt communism. These things never get talked about and the only reason I've even heard of this was from listening to an interview on Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Addendum podcast.
- dylan604 2y ago> I wouldn't have stuck around with my family, either Which is a major plot point of stories like Handmaid's Tale where you get caught in a civil war with opposing views of the territory you're in when it starts. You didn't start the war, but now you're an enemy for just living in your home. Do you just give up your beliefs or do you try to get out of there? All war is hell, but civil wars especially
- p3rls 2y ago
- krustyburger 2y agoWhat a story! Just wild that so many helicopters were destroyed. But everyone on board the ship must have been so gratified that all five children survived.
- speed_spread 2y agoAs the war was ending, a lot of of these choppers wouldn't have been required anymore and would have ended up in some graveyard anyway.
- dredmorbius 2y agoFair point, but that hadn't yet been determined and the flight chief and captain were taking a severe career risk (rightly IMO) in making that call.
- dylan604 2y agoNo simulator to practice on, just the will to protect his wife and family. and I'm assuming a pair of giant steel...
- divbzero 2y ago… wings.
- echoangle 2y agoThe wings were aluminum though, not steel.
- usrusr 2y agoYour comment reads a lot like you were assuming that he was a layperson who never flew a plane before. The article looks as of it was deliberately staying ambiguous about that part. But the complete absence of any statement about his previous flight experience or lack thereof suggests that he was a pilot, but they prefer not to talk too much about that part for the sake of a gripping story. (it does say so in the title, even if a reader eager of sensationalism might very well argue "that was the flight that made him a pilot") Zero experience in carrier operations is super-impressive nonetheless, but it completely pales next to the drama of setting out into nowhere overloaded and with a half-empty fuel tank. The airspeed delta between a Chessna and a carrier steaming into the wind is so low that the landing itself really would not be so that impressive. Impressive bit not crazy impressive.
- dylan604 2y ago> Your comment reads a lot like you were assuming that he was a layperson who never flew a plane before. You're reading something that's just not there then. I clearly left out the details as TFA clearly states he was a pilot (you just need to have read it and not skimmed). What I was referring to was landing on an airstrip on the ground is drastically different than landing on moving landing strip that also has hidden gotchas for trained pilots. Doing that for the first time as a pilot is one thing. Doing that for the first time with your wife and kids onboard is a whole other level. Your comment, however, is a whole other level going the other direction
- duxup 2y agoWhat an amazing story. That would make a great short film.
- stonesthrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
- nadermx 2y agoHaving lived in Vietnam, learnt Vietnamese, and spoken to quite a few Vietnamese elders. My impression is that they have far fewer gripes with the Americans than they do with the Chinese. Since one seemed to have caused an issue for a short while, while the others had caused issues for much longer.
- stonesthrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
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- AnimalMuppet 2y ago> Why does every political operative style response always begin like this? Cool it with the accusations there. The site guidelines call for assuming good faith.
- nadermx 2y agoTheir argument failed when they had to refer to ad hominem
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- RajT88 2y agoIt's a punchline still for the west. See: Top Gear Vietnam special, with the American Flag bike following the convoy blaring "Born in the USA" by Springsteen - a song which most definitely was NOT pro-Vietnam war.
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- Aken 2y agoThis was really fun to read! My in-laws are immigrants from Vietnam who left during the war. These stories feel a little closer to home than they would have before meeting them.
- arresin 2y agoWhat a moment for America. How many countries would push $10 million worth of aircraft (1970s money) to save civilians?
- keybored 2y agoI don’t know. My first instinct isn’t to assume that the first anecdote I find of something is unique to some entity.
- esperent 2y agoI've always wondered about this event: did someone go against orders to do this? Did they get in trouble?
- duxup 2y agoI suspect someone could make up some sort of violation, but it seems like it is unlikely there's a specific order preventing them. Ship's captain is going to have a lot of leeway to complete his mission. Punishing a high ranking officer in their efforts to save allies would not look great, and at the end of the Vietnam War, I'm not sure who was interested in that.
- rl3 2y agoIt's right there in the article: From the bridge Chambers quickly consulted task force commander Adm. William Harris, who was at his battle station below deck. “The admiral ordered me to tell the Bird Dog to ditch,” Chambers later recalled. [...] Assuming he would be court martialed, Chambers ordered those helicopters thrown overboard as well. He later told interviewers that since he expected to be deposed by prosecutors, he turned away from the action to avoid seeing exactly how many were pushed into the sea. [...] Chambers kept his job as the aircraft carrier’s captain and was later promoted to rear admiral; he retired in 1984. Nobody was prosecuted for the estimated $10 million loss of the helicopters that Chambers ordered overboard.
- brookst 2y agoThe article talks about the ships captain expecting to be court-martialed for it, but ultimately being promoted (not necessarily for this act).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Invictus0 2y agoWhy couldn't the helicopters just take off and hover for a while?
- duxup 2y agoI assume getting them ready to fly, crews, and etc was going to take a while to launch them all.
- brookst 2y agoAnd they weren’t useful anymore. In a time of crisis, that would just complicate things. Better to simplify.
- Invictus0 2y agoAn aircraft carrier can't launch 5 helicopters in less than an hour?
- ceejayoz 2y agoNot if they're cramming them as close as they can go to make space. As soon as they pushed the first ones off, more landed. > Immediately, five more airborne Huey pilots took advantage of the cleared runway to land and disembark their passengers. Basically, the situation in the pic at https://www.forcesnews.com/news/uss-theodore-roosevelt-changes-homeport-and-helps-move-3000-sailors-and-their-cars https://www.forcesnews.com/news/uss-theodore-roosevelt-chang..., but with aircraft instead of cars. They were all gonna wind up scrapped or sent to the boneyard (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_040204-N-3122S-004_An_aerial_image_of_the_Aerospace_Maintenance_and_Regeneration_Center_(AMARC)_located_on_the_Davis-Monthan_Air_Force_Base_in_Tucson,_Ariz.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_040204-N-312...) anyways.
- dredmorbius 2y agoTo land where? It was an emergency situation. The carrier was the only safe landing zone for hundreds, if not thousands, of miles. The choppers had been flying at or above max capacity for long distance, and would have been low on fuel already. Fueling them on the flight deck would not only have taken more time but presented its own significant risk of fire particularly in the confusion and nonstandard ops environment.
- JohnnyLarue 2y ago[flagged]
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- adamtaylor_13 2y agoThe guides at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola are incredible at what they do, and they were the first to introduce me to this story. What’s especially wild is that we actually have footage of this event. I highly recommend the Naval Aviation Museum if you ever find yourself in Pensacola or nearby!
- dreamcompiler 2y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7C3X5NTzBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7C3X5NTzBk
- cushychicken 2y agoThat’s a bucket list museum destination for me. They have one of the SBD Dauntless dive bombers at the museum that sunk a Japanese carrier at Midway. Still has holes in it from AA fire if I recall correctly.
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoYou are correct! Any person who enjoys military/naval history will love this museum. It’s very well maintained and just has some of the coolest stuff in it.
- cushychicken 2y agoGetting to see a Blue Angels practice for free is just the cherry on top.
- akdor1154 2y agoReading anything about this war makes me tear up, and I'm not even Vietnamese. I strongly recommend anyone who travels to Ha Noi to visit Hoa Lo prison - it's an excellent exhibition that shows the horror of both colonialism and war, and i think is made in a genuine good faith effort to promote peace into the future.
- danparsonson 2y agoI didn't make it there, but the Cu Chi Tunnels near Ho Chi Minh City were also a sobering experience
- zombiwoof 2y ago[flagged]
- sojournerc 2y agoTone deaf
- tomohelix 2y agoI mean, he isn't wrong though. America back then was truly the paragon of the world and most Americans took pride in that fact and strive to live up to it. Nowadays the public is so divided half the country can't agree with the other half even on critical issues. Asylee now would certainly get treated with much more institutional hostility than back then.
- sojournerc 2y agoThat's fine. I'm an air force brat, and still believe that the USA has not lost that attitude. It's shadowed by bullshit politics and oligarchy, but on the ground with the vets I'm sitting with now literally, that spirit is not lost. My family fought those wars. I believe in freedom. Don't tell me what Americans think
- whatshisface 2y agoThey had to remove the first theater commander in Iraq because he was prioritizing establishing a democracy too highly. The spirit is still alive but it's shadowed over. After Garner was replaced by the Secretary the new governor cancelled elections and appointed the whole Iraqi government himself, but if Garner hadn't really been trying to accomplish what they told everyone the mission was, the next guy wouldn't have been put there to reverse it.
- refurb 2y agoKnow your history. The Vietnam War had significant opposition from the start. It only grew from '65 to '73. Plenty of Americans back then wanted out, immediately.
- dang 2y agoRelated: A South Vietnamese Air Force Officer and a Crazy Carrier Landing (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17991021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17991021 - Sept 2018 (67 comments) I vaguely recall that there have been other threads about this too. Can anyone find them? (Reposts are fine after a year or so; links to past threads are just to satisfy extra-curious readers)
- NaOH 2y agoRelated: How a Vietnamese helicopter pilot saved his family - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9462885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9462885 - April 2015 (15 comments)
- dang 2y agoThanks—I think that's the story I was remembering. If I'm getting this right, these are two different stories involving different pilots and different aircraft but they happened on the same day! (April 29, 1975)
- stonesthrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y ago> What does this post have to do with "hacker" news? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > critical comments [...] outright silly propaganda comments I'd need to see specific links to say anything about them. > while you essential pin this thread on the frontpage Nobody pinned anything. The thread is ranking on the frontpage because it got plenty of upvotes. Could you please stop flaming now? You've been doing way too much of that, and not only in this thread.
- stmw 2y agodang - sorry, OP here, wasn't aware of those - thanks for satisfying the extra-curious
- whyenot 2y agoAs I read this article, with its meandering narrative and digressions, I kept getting frustrated and thinking to myself "get to the point!" This says more about me than any flaws with article.
- genedan 2y agoMy dad was one these ARVN soldiers. In the final days of the war he and his drill sergeant stole a helicopter as Saigon fell and flew west, expecting to keep fighting. They wound up in a refugee camp in Thailand and eventually made it to the US. He wouldn't see his family again until Clinton normalized relations with Vietnam 20 years later. In those final moments, soldiers who knew how to fly took whatever aircraft they could get their hands on, (Chinooks, Hueys, Cessnas, etc.) and flew aimlessly, hoping to run into friendly forces along the way before their fuel ran out.
- refurb 2y agoPeople get so tangled up in the geopolitics of these types of conflicts, and forget that every person the war touched has a personal story. I’ve known quite a few Vietnamese who lived through the conflict and their stories, no matter how lucky they were, the stories are incredible and hard to comprehend, no matter which side and whether they suffered horribly or made it out real relatively unscathed. Whether fleeing at a moments notice from your country of birth, never knowing where you are going or whether you’ll ever return. Or even the stories of people seeing the end and planning in advance what they will need and how to make sure family is ok. Then you think about the scale of it and that tens of millions of humans went through it and it’s impossible to comprehend the scale of it. What is really remarkable is the resiliency of humans. You speak to people who went through it and realize many have the perspective of “you did what you had to do” and “its a part of my life that is over now”, but try and imagine how hard it must be to live in a country of relative peace and see all these people around you who have never, and will never, go through anything similar, and try and have it all make sense. It’s also really fascinating talking to people who stayed in South Vietnam after. The entire system is reset. The police, the government, even where you get your food is swept away and rebuilt. I’ve noticed many people thrive on rumors as the government isn’t known for transparency. Days after the war order is restored and you hear rumors of what will come. Neighbors gossip, you do your best to prepare and wait.
- arrowsmith 2y ago> It’s also really fascinating talking to people who stayed in South Vietnam after. The entire system is reset. It took me a while to appreciate the significance of renaming Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City. I've lived in HCMC (although I'm not Vietnamese) and the renaming is actually controversial to this day, although most Vietnamese know better than to speak up about it. Basically, imagine if Russia conquered Ukraine and then renamed Kyiv to "Vladimir Putin City".
- _1tem 2y agoMakes me wonder what a hypothetical “fall of Kyiv” would look like today.
- Simon_O_Rourke 2y agoThat would prempt a Polish invasion and reconquest.
- rocqua 2y agoWhat? I don't think poland has any chance to win against Russia, and I don't believe NATO would support an offensive, or even help defend Poland if Poland started it. And it seems implausible that Poland doesn't realize this, or is crazy enough to take the risk.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Ylpertnodi 2y agoRussia is not showing itself to be particularly not good at war. And drones suck up the meat attacks. Best thing Poland could do is parachute into crimea and watch the negotiations from afar. Everyone else needs to start training their meat (to die valiantly) two years ago.
- StefanBatory 2y agoLast thing that we would want in a case like that is even more destabilization. Honestly at best I do imagine trying to set a puppet govt as a buffer, but outright annexing that is so dumb of a thing that I can't even get started.
- gambiting 2y agoI'm Polish and this is the dumbest thing I've read all day.
- pjc50 2y agoSomething close to what we saw in the early days of the war when it nearly happened: huge numbers of Ukranians streaming across the European borders. Once Ukraine surrendered there would then be a question of whether to allow "free Ukranian" forces to operate from inside NATO, or arrest them. Would there be a series of escalating incidents towards a direct NATO-Russia war?
- bhasi 2y agoGreat to see a story about the USS Midway. It is currently decommissioned and permanently docked in San Diego as a museum for the public. I've been there - on the very landing strip seen in the photos. Really humbled to have visited such a key part of US history.
- Simon_O_Rourke 2y agoOne of the saddest scenes I've witnessed was a march in Paris in 2005 where there were a few hundred south Vietnamese former up marching behind their former flag to a memorial. The thought of everything being lost was quiet strong.
- whimsicalism 2y ago[flagged]
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- sinuhe69 2y agoThe photo of a man carrying a baby and a woman by his side in the article is not of Buang Ly. The naval institute even has a video of the actual landing here: https://www.facebook.com/NavalInstitute/videos/1638823169892905 https://www.facebook.com/NavalInstitute/videos/1638823169892...
- tetris11 2y agoChrist. Best I can do: https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675069507_evacuation-of-refugees_Americans-and-South-Vietnamese_USS-Midway_Cessna-aircraft https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675069507_evacuation-of...
- larusso 2y agoI’ve been to the Midway twice and it’s the first time I hear the story. Must have overlooked an exposition or something. I also wonder why they didn’t bring the bird dog over to San Diego? I mean they have the F14 from the USS Enterprise who needed to land on the midway still on the flight deck. Other than that. What an amazing story. I love the part that the captain didn’t care if he would not only loose his job but also get court marshaled for loss of material.
- canthack2good 2y agoI love Hacker news and I’m finally creating an account. My dad flew these planes in Vietnam and I sent him this article. Here’s some of our conversation: Me: You know this guy? Or have you heard of him? Dad: I have not. This is the 1st I ve heard of it The evacuation of Vietnam was a 100 times worse, horrific, etc. Than Afghanistan That pilot was very lucky...landing a light fixed wing on an aircraft carrier is impossible The swells of the sea, etc. Will bat that plane like a bug Live or die.....hundreds of thousands friendly Vietnamese died when we left them unprotected Me: frowny face Dad: It was despicable Much, much worse than Afghanistan.... the North Vietnamese slaughtered most all those that worked with US. The rest spent long terms in jails
- dredmorbius 2y agoFrom an earlier similar story, a comment (to the article, not HN) observes: I’d like to point out that a lot of our young men are currently attempting to do the exact same thing as was described above for the Afghani translators who served with the US Army even at tremendous risk to their lives. They have sponsored them for visas since their lives, and those of their families, are increasingly at risk back in Afghanistan because of their work with the US. Many of these Afghani and Iraqi translators saved US American soldier lives, and made it possible for the our soldiers to work with the local populations when this was critical. Unfortunately, even as American soldiers are working hard to bring their translators they worked with, along with their families, to the US, they’re running into a lot of red tape back in the US, even though we’ve only filled a fraction of the visas that Congress allotted for Iraqis and Afghans who served with the US Army and other branches. <https://tacairnet.com/2015/08/20/a-south-vietnamese-air-force-officer-was-responsible-for-one-of-the-craziest-carrier-landings-of-all-time/#comment-20466 https://tacairnet.com/2015/08/20/a-south-vietnamese-air-forc...> That was called out in an HN comment: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17992951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17992951> I'd like to point out that following events of the 20th of this month, that red tape has turned into a solid wall as the US has frozen all asylum and refugee actions, including those of people already cleared to enter the US, many with flights already booked for entry. This includes "more than 1,600 Afghans cleared to come to the U.S. as part of the program that the Biden administration set up after the American withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021". That group specifically includes those who assisted the US during its campaigns in Afghanistan: Many veterans of America’s longest war have tried for years to help Afghans they worked with, in addition to their families, find refuge in the U.S. Many were prepared for a suspension of the resettlement program but had hoped for special consideration for the Afghans. <https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-cancels-travel-for-refugees-already-cleared-to-resettle-in-the-u-s https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-c...> The long-lasting harm this does to US goodwill, reputation, and the willingness of those abroad to help and assist the US in future remains to be seen, but will likely be severe.
- csa 2y agoI wish I could up vote this more. > US goodwill, reputation, and the willingness of those abroad to help and assist the US in future I’m afraid that there is a large group of folks in the US who put no value on these things, while not really understanding how much they have benefitted us (especially in the recent past).
- hermitcrab 2y agoI went on holiday to Vietnam a few years ago. One of our guides told that it was still pretty much impossible to get a government job if one of your relatives had served in the ARVN - even if they had been a conscript. Which seems mad. They also told us a few stories about how corrupt their politicians were.
- casenmgreen 2y agoUS Army Center of Military History publications list; https://history.army.mil/Publications/Publications-Catalog-Sub/Publications-By-Title/ https://history.army.mil/Publications/Publications-Catalog-S... In particular; "ADVICE AND SUPPORT: THE EARLY YEARS" https://history.army.mil/Publications/Publications-Catalog-Sub/Publications-By-Title/Advice-and-Support-The-Early-Years/ https://history.army.mil/Publications/Publications-Catalog-S... This is first book in a series of three, where the first and third have been published, the second is in fact going to be two volumes, of which the second volume is about to be published and the first is not yet out. The book IMO is superb. The history of it is very simple : the French rules Vietnam, extraordinarily badly, the locals wanted independence - that's all they wanted. An end to violence, exploitation and corruption. WW2 happened, the Japanese moved in, then out, the locals declared independence, the French came back, and they wanted to keep Vietnam. The French shanghaied the Americans into helping them militarily ("they're all communists!!!") and the Americans were naive/gullible and bought into it. The French eventually left, leaving the Americans carrying the can and with so much investment of time and prestige they couldn't just leave. In all of this, the locals suffered in the most appalling and horrific ways, and ended up stuck with Communism (which none of them had any particular interest in, and which they later turned to because they needed support and that was all that was available). Basically far as I can see it all kicked off with French colonialism. The locals simply wanted independence. The irony is the USA - the bastion of independence and freedom - ended up fighting against this and slaughtering huge numbers of people who simply wanted to run their own affairs. USA is a good country, as countries go, but it has made mistakes, and when countries go to war, the practical consequences of the mistakes can well be enormous. (I can compare this to say Putin's Russia, which is an appalling country and will kill you and your family if you get in their way and using violence and torture to keep people in line.)
- rawgabbit 2y agoThe United States became involved in Vietnam due to a chain of events and a strategic mindset shaped by Cold War pressures. The fall of China to communism on October 1, 1949, the outbreak of the Korean War on June 25, 1950, and the French defeat in Indochina culminating in the Geneva Accords on July 21, 1954, solidified a "with us or against us" worldview. This perspective, driven by fear of communist expansion, led the U.S. to see Vietnam as another Korea—a battleground where failing to act could result in a perceived loss to communism. Believing it had already "lost" China, the U.S. committed to Vietnam to prevent what it saw as another domino falling, reflecting a reactive and at times simplistic approach to global events.
- johnea 2y agoThe story certainly pulls at the heart strings, and it's amazing it was completed without casualty, but it also serves as a reminder of just what a cluster fuck of waste and danger a war actually is...
- eszed 2y agoThis one got me, y'all. I'm sitting here imagining how it would feel to cram everyone you love most in the world into a poorly-provisioned plane, point its nose towards the ocean, and - with their lives measured by fuel in the tank - hope to find safety in time. Then, when against all odds you've found the ship, to trust their safety to the good-will of those below, and to your ability to execute a sketchy landing you've never practiced before. I'm a relatively new dad, so an increasingly large number of my brain cycles are involuntarily committed to worst-case-scenario planning. Like, my kid choked for something like four seconds, and I tipped him over and banged on his back and he was fine, but I'd already mentally moved into the rest of the checklist: start a timer; call 911; Heimlich, Heimlich, Heimlich; send my wife for peroxide, a razor blade, and a straw; Heimlich, Heimlich. At 3.5 minutes, I'm making the cut. Like I say, the kid was fine, but I was a bit of a wreck for a little while. There's one of those videos above (go watch 'em) where they're getting off the plane, and someone reaches out and pats the guy's shoulder, and his face is just numb. Like, it worked, and we're safe, and I don't believe it yet, and I'm glad they showed that shoulder pat, because I wanted to reach through the screen, and back through time, and do the same damn thing, tell him: "it worked; they're safe; welcome home."