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First Look: Loops, by Pixelfed – Decentralised TikTok Competitor (2024)
- gigatexal 2y agoGood attempt but TikTok also makes people rich. Amassing a huge following and being popular brings brand deals etc. I hope this takes off though.
- poisonborz 2y agoSocial networks should be about socialising and not a minority of professional content creators enriched by doomscroll-fueled advertisements. Once people get feedback and good experiences things are evened out much better. Look at Tumblr or even Reddit, that despite being popular, never had influencer culture.
- spinningarrow 2y ago> Social networks It doesn’t bill itself as a social network though. Neither does TikTok seem to.
- LtWorf 2y agoI use an extension to heavily filter fb on the computer. When I get the "intended" experience opening on the phone it's so awful. It's mostly ads and pages I don't care about, and occasionally some local bands or venue writing what's happening, which is why I use facebook.
- gigatexal 2y ago> Social networks should be about socialising and not a minority of professional content creators enriched by doomscroll-fueled advertisements. > Once people get feedback and good experiences things are evened out much better. Look at Tumblr or even Reddit, that despite being popular, never had influencer culture. Couldn’t agree more. But Pandora’s box has been opened and people being people and companies being profit maximizing machines … I doubt we will ever get there. What’s really nice is small niche communities that exist in places like mastodon where often the “normals” don’t know about or don’t patronize making the experience really nice.
- medlazik 2y ago> Social networks should be about socialising and not a minority of professional content creators enriched by doomscroll-fueled advertisements. That's absolutely not what Tiktok is. Most people who make money are a majority or random amateur users with massive social interactions, and i see no "doomscroll-fueled advertisements" whatsoever. Ads are very badly targeted, like on every other platform.
- Sebb767 2y ago> Look at Tumblr or even Reddit, that despite being popular, never had influencer culture. I can't talk about Tumblr, but while Reddit doesn't have an open influencer culture in the same way that TikTok or Instagram do, it does have massive amounts of content marketing. It is very much not the anti-advertising community heaven it appears to be, at least outside of very small subreddits. Taking it as an example of pure socializing is quite optimistic.
- sschueller 2y agoAgreed. What is needed is a way for instance owners to monetize. So for example I own an instance and I will provide free video hosting. In exchange I will serve you ads and collect some data to target those. If you don't like that you could go to an instance that charges a monthly fee. Or you can run your own. If I can monetize my instance I can also pay people on my server to provide content.
- mariusor 2y agoSadly as far as I'm aware the fediverse developers have been mostly against adding monetization means to their projects, with a couple of small exceptions related to cryptocurrencies. I think Dan (Loops main dev) would do well to implement or accept contributions that implement simpler monetization for his project, but I somehow doubt it.
- input_sh 2y agoThere's nothing stopping you. Set up an instance, disable public registration, and send an invite to those that send you a payment. To put my money where my mouth is, the Mastodon instance I'm using charges people $20/year and I'm happy to pay it.
- Tepix 2y agoDoes it make TikTok better that we're seeing paid endorsements?
- mariusor 2y agoBut being able to launch your own instance where you get 100% of all the money spent by the users either through ads or directly is a pretty good incentive, and beats what any other platform offers, no? The trick is to get high enough numbers of users to use the platform though.
- freeopinion 2y agoImagine if the distributed nature applied to the advertising. So influencers weren't paid by the platform, but by individual sponsors. If you want to view my content, first watch this 10 sec ad from one of my sponsors. And I only have two sponsors, so you're never subjected to Nike ads or Russian dating ads or a million others. Just the silly Creality ad. If you want to see Tomas's content you have to see an ad from some cruise line or a skydiving company based in Connecticut. His ads are controlled by him. Mine are controlled by me. Each producer has to hustle up their own ads. So they tend to coalesce onto huge servers that provide an ad service to do that work. Still, you often get some content sponsored by the local Mexican restaurant in some town you've never heard of.
- suraci 2y agoIf I understand correctly, the core value of TikTok lies in its algorithm, which is not mentioned in the article.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago+ capcut (video editor) + Viable income for content creators
- tegansnyder 2y agoThe value in the video editor and music licensing can't be overstated. It would be awesome to have a nice cross platform opensource video editor for mobile. There are some commercial services selling SDKs that provide similar video editing capabilities.
- permo-w 2y agoalso in its ease of use and appeal to young, non-techy people
- logicchains 2y agoIs it any easier to use than Reels or YouTube shorts?
- froglets 2y agoYes, it’s much easier to use. You don’t have to look around for anything to use tiktok, it’s where you would expect it to be and everything makes sense. The UX reminds me of using iOS 1. The content is more authentic too. A lot of what I see is from accounts that aren’t monetized, maybe 5% of the videos have less than 100 views. I do use YouTube for music, but the rest of the content is so contrived and annoying. Instagram is too confusing to use, but all of the content feels like watching a commercial or QVC anyway, so I never bothered figuring it out.
- thomaslynch248 2y ago
- bobnamob 2y agoMy impression of the two demographics this targets (ie people that use TikTok and people that want to use decentralised social media) is that the set intersection of the two won’t be anywhere near the critical mass necessary to get a TikTok like algorithm working
- whereismyacc 2y agoAt least (I assume?) a nice feature of short-form video app algorithms is that every few seconds, the users swipe or like or whatever to reveal preferences. The rate at which that data comes in from users is much higher than for long-form platforms. I'd be more worried about actually getting content on there? But if Tiktok users are fragmenting onto Instagram Reels / Youtube Shorts etc, maybe the dominant strategy becomes to upload everywhere. In which case, maybe this platform has some semblance of a chance? Also I didn't get to use it, but I suspect decentralized is going to be pretty tricky for a short-form video app because even minor loading times cause serious friction. If every other video load comes from a different service, it'll probably feel very slow in practice?
- richardw 2y agoI had the impression that TikTok must be pre-loading videos. I would keep 1-n ready to go for startup (depending on storage) and then load whatever is optimal at runtime. Optimise for no wait times, control the selection and distribution. It’s not like YouTube where the client is roaming all over. Video preferences seem local ish so you can keep videos in-country for a lot of content.
- kuschku 2y agoI assume Tiktok loads the initial fMP4 fragment (metadata + 500ms of video) for about 10 videos at once. If you scroll extremely fast through videos, you'll always get a short moment where it's loading after the same number of videos.
- sn0n 2y agoThat could be offset by prefetching 5-10 of the current tag/interest and pushing the completes to the top of the que followed by the most complete downloads.. Or something. The initial load could be last cache just to have something present. Lots of options tbh.
- yosito 2y agoCan the word "competitor" really be used to describe something that can't compete? It's an alternative, one which the world would be way better off adopting, but far from being a competitor, unfortunately.
- aniviacat 2y agoEven if you're last place you're still part of the competition
- noufalibrahim 2y agoIn theory but not really in practice. Just like my toy compiler is not really competing with gcc or llvm. I wonder though if the "decentralised" thing is really a feature for the audience that tiktok serves.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- aniviacat 2y agoPerhaps "ad-free" and "not about to be banned in the US" are more compelling features
- permo-w 2y agookay but "ad-free" means costs elsewhere and "not about to be banned in the US" means they're "competing" with Reels and Shorts. unless this project is for the sake of resume-padding or something else other than actual use, someone has wasted a lot of life hours developing this
- bronson 2y ago"just a hobby, won't be all big and professional like gnu" If a project serves someone well, then it's competitive for that person.
- optixyt 2y agoFor me acc system is kinda broken
- cmt8 2y agoWill this take TikTok's (or even Reel's) marketshare? No. Will it get enough users to take off in the first place? Also probably not (see bobnamob's comment). This is still really awesome. It's an awesome app and an even cooler project.
- ramon156 2y agoCould we in theory have an algorithm to promote things like interaction, inclusiveness, culture matching etc? I get that money has to come from somewhere, but I wouldn't mind a social network that's not focusing on making you stay and scroll.
- sn0n 2y ago[flagged]
- hhh 2y agoi don’t think encouraging people to include and care about one another is pushing an echo chamber
- rosseitsa 2y agoIt would be super interesting and useful for the world to have open source algorithms, so you can choose what best suits you. I think Bluesky's ATP can support that, not sure about ActivityPub, but it probably can too.
- blharr 2y agoDon't these algorithms use significant compute and lots of data (not just from you, from other people, too)? It seems like it'd be difficult to just run up an algorithm on a local server, though I'm not sure if that's where you're suggesting
- pxoe 2y agopixelfed looks like it's even worse at being user-friendly and approachable at all than mastodon, and it currently has all the same old problems mastodon did. user journey, onboarding, ease of use, are like they didn't even learn from mistakes of others. going to pixelfed website and then trying to get to a profile of someone tells me a lot about the state of that experience, when it can't even get the basics of basics right. (like, how to get to a profile on a such network. bizarrely, they don't show full handles with instance name in them, even though it simply doesn't work in a way that'd let you get to some profile through just the username alone from every server. you cannot even access profiles in a consistent and straightforward way.) honestly, hopefully it doesn't take off, cause it seems just mostly user hostile. even though it's free in some ways, it's just not better at being usable.
- viraptor 2y ago> like, how to get to a profile on a such network. bizarrely, they don't show full handles You click on the author's name? I'm confused what the problem is. Also if you're looking at the discovery feed for an instance, you'll see only local posts, so there's no point in adding the domain on that view.
- pxoe 2y agothe problem (with just their web version i guess) is not showing the full username with instance where that user is at, nor recognizing when a username with an instance address appended is typed in. so when someone shares just their username (which is all they see on their profile, kinda deceptively cause you do need the instance address to get to someone), you're left guessing which instance they could be in. (the web version is also gated to hell behind sign up/login walls. well, whatever. i'm not going to find out if it's magically better if you cave, if it's this rickety without logging in) it's insane to me that for a federated network they couldn't get @handle display and profile sharing right.
- viraptor 2y ago> so when someone shares just their username Is that something that actually happens often? You're saying that you're not a user currently, but I can tell you that I've never seen that in practice. Everyone either appends the domain or shares the profile link like https://pixelfed.social/arkadiusz https://pixelfed.social/arkadiusz I mean, it's exactly as with email. We don't get the "you told me it's foobar, but I don't know which domain" issue there, even though most mail clients don't go out of their way to display your full email address.
- openrisk 2y agoKinda funny to read all these comments looking at a single-person's effort and going "he, he, he cannot win against the adtech billions and their addiction machines". What Pixelfed (and Loops and various other still half baked initiatives) prove is that there is an entire space of very interesting applications that are possible with the technologies of here and now. Bluesky was better resourced but essentially still in the same dwarf category versus big adtech. Some people will take these proof-of-principle efforts to heart and build a beautiful future while others will cling on milking the totally broken paradigms of yesteryear.
- alecco 2y agoProfessional content creators need to get paid reasonably. AFAIR Tik Tok spent a lot of money getting good content creators in the beginning. YouTube and X pay peanuts but due to scale it's a significant amount of peanuts for top earners. The platform is important but the content creators and the viewers are 10x more important.
- angrygoat 2y agoSome extension of the Patreon model onto decentralised social media could work. I pay a few bucks a month to the creators of webcomics and other content that I enjoy, just because it's the right thing to do, and I dunno, it makes me feel more connected to these people that I've never met but who bring me some joy?
- rglullis 2y agoThe amount of people like you is nowhere near enough to develop and maintain a robust economy.
- VHRanger 2y agoSo what? Not every product needs to be at the 100m user scale to be a success. The nice thing about this era for a creator is that having 10,000 dedicated fans is enough. Dedicated fans will happily monetize on you. 100,000 low engagement fans won't make nearly as much.
- rosseitsa 2y agoFor me the website is down, but it is on the archive: (https://web.archive.org/web/20250125101223/https://wedistribute.org/2024/11/loops-early-look/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250125101223/https://wedistrib...) It feels very hard to find any sort of information on "Loops". Especially regarding their decentralization model.
- emaro 2y agoLoops uses ActivityPub and the Fediverse as it's decentralization model (it's created by dansup, the dev of Pixelfed). The implementaion details, i.e. what's federated and how, are probably still fleshed out. It's the first project trying to bring the TikTok-style video feed to the Fediverse, so there's not much prior art.
- netfortius 2y agoIt's not the website. There is no name resolution resolving to the domain wedistribute.org. There were two hosts recorded in the DNS history: auth.wedistribute.org 216.249.100.234 social.wedistribute.org 24.199.69.82 which no longer exist (i.e. unreachable, due to DNS of their domain failing now)
- picafrost 2y agoI am very much in support of offering alternative options to centralized black-box apps with dubious profitability mechanisms. An option that doesn't catch on to the tune of a billion+ users is better than an option that never existed. The success of technology scaling to a global amount of users should be weighted also with possible-to-measurable harm. Is there activity in the space of developing open-source social media algorithms? It has been interesting to see Threads and bluesky build integrations with Activity Pub (though there is risk for the embrace-extend-extinguish playbook to be applied against it). Are there similar possibilities for generating algorithmic standards for social media feeds that can be understood as deeply as one wishes to?
- alecco 2y agoSite is down for me https://web.archive.org/web/20250123192931/https://wedistribute.org/2024/11/loops-early-look/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250123192931/https://wedistrib...
- angrygoat 2y agoHow are decentralised platforms managing abusive content? TikTok had some bumps in the road maybe five years back with this, but got it under control. I know I don't want to be scrolling through video content and see illegal or unethical content. That compliance aspect seems like one thing that pushes us towards centralised architectures for social media, but I'm guessing that AI models to screen images / videos are pretty widely available now and cheaply deployable?
- mglz 2y agoIn these systems you pick what you see and don't rely on a third party algorithm for that. If one instance allows the publications of things others disagree with defederation is an option. Under no circumstances should we let AI filter the fediverse. Freedom is worth more than mild offense.
- grishka 2y agoFediverse-based platforms usually just don't do any proactive moderation. They rely on users spotting violations and reporting them. The reports are federated though. If admins of two servers disagree on what should be allowed, that usually leads to a federation block between them.
- jeroenhd 2y agoThere is some proactive moderation on new servers in my experience. Servers belonging to certain controversial/unpleasant content groups are often blocked beforehand, for instance. Certain porn-oriented parts of the Fediverse basically exist as their own islands because nobody wants the moderation burden. I think these federated platforms can use some kind of spam detection, though. A bunch of Japanese teenagers completely swamped most of the Fediverse with a shitty prank on another Discord server for instance, and there was that time someone automated posting CSAM across a few servers. It all kind of feels rather 1980s internet in a way, clearly not set up to deal with intentionally malicious people.
- grishka 2y ago
- skwee357 2y agoTechnological craftsmanship aside, I’m wondering, what’s the use case for these platforms? I don’t debate the value of long form written content (blogs) and video content (YouTube), but even these are mainly polluted with SEO garbage articles, or the same idea in 100 different videos, because the content creation machine needs to keep going. But what’s the real value of short form content like twitter/instagram/tiktok? You can’t convey a meaningful message in a limited amount words/seconds; you can’t use them as a diary or for sharing moments with people you love (I was toying with the idea of staying in instagram just to share pictures with my family, but there is no way I’m going to explain them how decentralized alternatives work); and they don’t have any decent monetization strategy other than ads, which means “influencers”, which means the same thing over again. So why do we keep recreating the same tools but with a twist of “decentralized” (which has no appeal to the average person, aside from some online “anarchist”/people who like technology [myself included])? What’s the value other than “for fun”/“decentralization”?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- yoz-y 2y agoPutting on my most charitable hat on: - people hate being bored more than ever and don’t want to “invest” even 10 minutes into entertainment, short form videos can be a great way to kill time - it provides a creative outlet for people who don’t want to invest money and time into creating something longer (filming, writing, research…) Now, I believe that in reality most of the consumer side is afflicted by addiction and reduced attention span, and most creative side is fueled by egoism and grift. But like everything, the reality is mix of both.
- skwee357 2y agoI'd assume that most people wouldn't mind a little alcohol in order to easily navigate social interactions. Now, it doesn't mean I should run a business of offering alcohol stands to social gathering events (at least according to my moral views). Boredom used to be a real thing that humans needed in order to function properly, and be creative. I remember that as a child I used to stare at the wall, used to go outside. Nowadays, I can't leave my phone in another room. I can't watch an old movie because my brain is not able to process the slow pace of events. I blame, in part, social networks and short from content.
- ingohelpinger 2y agothey are censoring as much as classical social media networks. lol.
- evolve2k 2y agoSorry what?! It’s a decentralised social network. You and your friends could spin up an instance. What are you even talking about?!
- ingohelpinger 2y agoNostr and Bluesky are both decentralized protocols, but they differ in their design, goals, and implementation. ### *Nostr:* - *Purpose*: Nostr is a decentralized protocol designed primarily for global, censorship-resistant communication. It is highly minimalistic and flexible, aiming to create an open platform for social interactions. It is a protocol rather than a platform or app itself, meaning different apps can use it. - *How it works*: The core of Nostr is based on public-key cryptography. Users create a public/private key pair, and the public key serves as their identity. The protocol doesn’t rely on centralized servers; instead, users can publish messages to any server (or relay) that accepts them. The idea is that these relays spread messages, and they can be accessed from multiple places. - *Strengths*: - *Simple & lightweight*: It's designed to be minimalistic and easily implemented. - *Censorship resistance*: No central authority can block content or users, which helps promote freedom of expression. - *Flexibility*: Different applications and services can be built on top of the Nostr protocol, allowing for diverse user experiences. - *Weaknesses*: - *Scaling issues*: Since it's early-stage, the relays can sometimes struggle to handle heavy traffic. - *User experience*: Apps using Nostr are still developing, so the UX/UI can be inconsistent. ### *Bluesky:* - *Purpose*: Bluesky was created as a decentralized social network project started by Twitter, designed to create a more open and user-controlled internet. It aims to solve issues like centralized control, censorship, and data privacy while still providing a richer experience for users. - *How it works*: Bluesky uses a protocol called *AT Protocol*, which is a more structured approach compared to Nostr. It involves user-controlled data (think decentralized identity, customizable feeds, etc.) and is designed to work across different services. The protocol enables interoperability, so users can interact with different platforms built on top of it. - *Strengths*: - *Robust framework*: The AT Protocol is designed with user control, scalability, and interoperability in mind. - *Established foundation*: Since it’s backed by Twitter's original founders, Bluesky has strong development resources and early user interest. - *Focus on UX*: Bluesky aims for a polished user experience that might attract users who are more familiar with traditional centralized platforms. - *Weaknesses*: - *Not fully decentralized yet*: While the protocol is decentralized, Bluesky itself is still under development and is not fully distributed in the way Nostr is. - *Centralized governance*: The development of Bluesky is controlled by the Bluesky team, though they aim for a decentralized model over time. ### *Key Differences*: 1. *Complexity & Flexibility*: Nostr is more minimal and flexible, leaving a lot of the development to third-party apps. Bluesky's AT Protocol is more structured with a clear focus on user control and interoperability. 2. *Decentralization*: Nostr is more decentralized by design, with no central authority. Bluesky aims for decentralization but is still more centralized, especially during its early stages. 3. *Use Cases*: Nostr is a pure communication protocol, meaning apps built on it can range from simple messaging to fully-featured social platforms. Bluesky is more focused on social networking with an emphasis on user autonomy and privacy. If you're looking for raw, censorship-resistant communication with flexibility, Nostr might be more appealing. But if you're after a polished, scalable social network with decentralized features and future growth, Bluesky could be the better fit.
- moffkalast 2y agoBröther can finally have all the Lööps they wanted?
- flessner 2y agoFundamentally, all social medias have two purposes: 1) Connecting with family and friends... for me, messaging Apps already solve that. 2) Curating new, exciting and relevant content. What I always find interesting is that most projects try to solve 2) by building a platform that is exactly like the competitor but "decentralized". If such a system instead runs entirely on the users device the curation could even use data such as browser bookmarks or history without infringing massively on privacy.
- shortrounddev2 2y agoI think the platforms that do #1 well are not the same as the platforms that do #2 well. We call Instagram and tiktok "social media", but it's just media.
- hnpolicestate 2y agoTikTok competitor must have a functional live tool for users with over x amount of followers. Lives are very popular. Gifting cuts also help company revenues.
- nico 2y agoWebsite is down. Anyone has a mirror link?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- codetrotter 2y agoWent to the https://loops.video/ https://loops.video/ and installed the iOS TestFlight version of the app. Tried to create an account. They said they sent me a confirmation link I have to click, but I haven’t received any link and it’s been an hour. It’s not in spam either.
- evolve2k 2y agoThey getting absolutely hammered. We gave it a day; the email eventually came and managed to get in.
- codetrotter 2y agoYeah, the email confirming account had been activated came eventually for me too :) I guess it’s a good sign in a way. Shows that people are interested.
- tempeler 2y agoIf your product is related to media (news, magazines, etc.), that's really good for you. because you got the people's attention. This is an assertive headline. but if you claim your product is better or equivalent to them. if your product does not meet your claims. This is not good for your product. They just try once and send it to trash urgently. Also, you lose potential users. The main issue here is user trust, not how your competitor is big.
- alp1n3_eth 2y agoI understand the want for these new social networks to be less-controlled and more distributed, but I think there is a line in general for dopamine dependence and algorithmic targeting. TikTok, Reels, YT Shorts, all are a net-drain when it comes to doom-scrolling/wasting time. I [[kind of]] understand keeping more traditional methods and making more open versions: Pixelfed (Insta), Bluesky (Twitter), etc. as people want some form of connection, but I don't think these short vid platforms should be put on a pedestal.
- captainepoch 2y agoNo faith on a piece of software of the author of the now abandoned Pixelfed, a software that is not finished and still very buggy.
- IYasha 2y agoIs this a suitable place to import my yet unfinished looping SWFs?