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This 100%. I managed a hiring process last year (my first) and from the outset I wanted to make sure I let every applicant that we talked to know if we had dec

This 100%. I managed a hiring process last year (my first) and from the outset I wanted to make sure I let every applicant that we talked to know if we had decided to pass. It was a lot easier said/thought than done. That email is horrible to send. My stomach dropped out every time I hit “send”, for exactly the reasons you stated. I dreaded the replies which often included some kind of “Why?” question. I completely understand where the candidates are coming from. They want to know what they did wrong and how they can improve. On the surface this seems like an easy thing to do, but in my experience, it’s more like opening a can of worms. How do you tell someone “I’m sorry, you’re too junior, try again in a few years” or “your entire personality was off-putting/rude” or “you spent an inordinate amount of time in the interview tying to convince me I was wrong about tabs vs spaces and even sent me a follow up email citing more reasons” or “You told me you worked with PHP 6 when I asked you what version you had used” [0], or “you couldn’t remember if you used Angular 1 or 2+” [1], or “you told me you had a great memory then proceeded to say ‘I don’t know’ and ‘I don’t remember’ to 90% of my questions”…. The list goes on When sending a rejection letter the best case scenario is that they say “thank you” and move on (or don’t reply at all). Worst case scenario, they start asking follow-up questions which I feel obligated to respond to, they get irate, and/or they attempt some kind of bargaining/arguing. I’m not going to say I’d never do any of these things myself (however unproductive) but it shocks me that some people think they can change your mind by arguing about why you passed on them. It’s all very uncomfortable and feels like you are navigating a field of land mines. [0] PHP 6 never was released, it went from 5->7, though you can find books on “PHP 6” because they were printed before it was clear the version was going to be skipped. [1] Angular 1 vs 2+ is essentially a completely different framework. Anyone working in web tech should be aware of that fact.

g-b-r 2y ago
Just as in personal relations, sending a final message rather than ghosting can be uncomfortable, but that's not an excuse not to do it. If/when you don't want to interact further, just say it (hopefully stating the reasons, such as that the hiring process is imperfect, but the company can't devote infinite resources to it); after you did that it's completely fine to ignore further inquiries.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  This is exactly what I did. Everyone got an email no matter how uncomfortable, I would engage 1-2 emails past that then make it clear that I wasn't going to reply again.
  - Shorn 2y ago
    How often would you say you got these negative interactions (anything other than a "thank you" or silence)?
nickjj 2y ago
I would much rather get an honest answer in any scenario, no matter what it is. There are people out there who would take that feedback and reflect on it in a positive way. How else can you improve or be mindful of things in the future if you don't even know what happened or what went wrong? I sort of feel like the people who don't give honest feedback or ghost aren't trying to protect anyone's feelings or are avoiding conflict. They themselves have something going on internally that bothers them when it comes to giving or receiving feedback. They are maybe letting unrelated previous experiences dictate their current life and decisions. So now you have 2 types of people. People who want honest feedback and people who never give it. You can't force either one to do the other thing so we're always left with 1 side feeling unhappy. It doesn't make sense to me that this is how most folks are ok with operating.
- rmgk 2y ago
  Giving good individual feedback requires effort and is low priority. Those things tend to not happen without requiring complicated feelings to be involved.
- fastasucan 2y ago
  Interestingly you exemplify the problem here. You ignore their explanation and examples and rather fall down to prescribe some flaw to them. Ironically this is some of the outcomes of giving honest feedback that makes people don't bother.
- Ferret7446 2y ago
  Do you actually though? A lot of people say they would rather get an honest answer but don't react very well in reality. > They themselves have something going on internally that bothers them when it comes to giving or receiving feedback. The idea that some people would judge them like this certainly wouldn't help people to try to be more honest and open, especially if such a person is demanding an "honest answer".
  - arp242 2y ago
    There's honest and there's too honest. I was once rejected with "you don't have the technical depth needed". I appreciate that's what they honestly felt, but sending it back like that was just too honest. Especially because I felt their technical screening process wasn't really all that brilliant (to put it mildly). Something like "we're looking for someone with a different skill set" would still be reasonable honest, but also wouldn't make me feel terrible. The notion that you can fully asses someone's technical abilities from a one-hour interview is mistaken anyway. So an honest reply should take that in to account. --- A second scenario is where I did a take-home code test thinghy. I went for the "simple but obviously correct and easy to implement approach". The performance for that seemed more than enough for the stated use case, and included some benchmarks and a bit of text to justify it. Performance wasn't mentioned in the task, but seems like the common sense thing to do. After a few weeks I got a one-line "doesn't meet expected performance" rejection. Well, you didn't mention what the "expected performance" is motherfucker. That's not what I sent back (I didn't reply at all), but what a fucked up way to evaluate and dismiss people.
arp242 2y ago
I typically send real non-automated replies to everyone as well, even the bullshit applications or "wtf" interviews. Many don't reply (completely fine). Some are very grateful for a real human replying. Some send back a stream of abuse. I agree that doing all of this well is quite time-consuming and stressful. I want to be reasonably honest in why I rejected someone, but also don't want to slag anyone off or make them feel bad. For some this is easy ("we're looking for a tech lead and you're just out of college"), for others not so much. Especially when they seem they might be okay, but you have a bunch of other candidates that just seem much better. Someone that bangs on about tabs vs. spaces would be "we're looking for someone with a more pragmatic approach", although phrasing that well can easily take up 10 minutes. I generally just ignore challenges to my reply, unless there really was a misunderstanding on my part (which did happen once). Still, I think it's worth it, including giving people the ability to reply to the rejection: most of them are positive and grateful – it's just that negative interactions register more strongly. Looking for a job is difficult, stressful, and depressing these days and I've been on the end of that too, and being a bit nice can really make a difference for some people.
pas 2y ago
> How do you tell someone “I’m sorry, you’re too junior, ..." What's wrong with this? :0

g-b-r 2y ago

Just as in personal relations, sending a final message rather than ghosting can be uncomfortable, but that's not an excuse not to do it. If/when you don't want to interact further, just say it (hopefully stating the reasons, such as that the hiring process is imperfect, but the company can't devote infinite resources to it); after you did that it's completely fine to ignore further inquiries.

joshstrange 2y ago
This is exactly what I did. Everyone got an email no matter how uncomfortable, I would engage 1-2 emails past that then make it clear that I wasn't going to reply again.
- Shorn 2y ago
  How often would you say you got these negative interactions (anything other than a "thank you" or silence)?

nickjj 2y ago

I would much rather get an honest answer in any scenario, no matter what it is. There are people out there who would take that feedback and reflect on it in a positive way. How else can you improve or be mindful of things in the future if you don't even know what happened or what went wrong? I sort of feel like the people who don't give honest feedback or ghost aren't trying to protect anyone's feelings or are avoiding conflict. They themselves have something going on internally that bothers them when it comes to giving or receiving feedback. They are maybe letting unrelated previous experiences dictate their current life and decisions. So now you have 2 types of people. People who want honest feedback and people who never give it. You can't force either one to do the other thing so we're always left with 1 side feeling unhappy. It doesn't make sense to me that this is how most folks are ok with operating.

rmgk 2y ago
Giving good individual feedback requires effort and is low priority. Those things tend to not happen without requiring complicated feelings to be involved.
fastasucan 2y ago
Interestingly you exemplify the problem here. You ignore their explanation and examples and rather fall down to prescribe some flaw to them. Ironically this is some of the outcomes of giving honest feedback that makes people don't bother.
Ferret7446 2y ago
Do you actually though? A lot of people say they would rather get an honest answer but don't react very well in reality. > They themselves have something going on internally that bothers them when it comes to giving or receiving feedback. The idea that some people would judge them like this certainly wouldn't help people to try to be more honest and open, especially if such a person is demanding an "honest answer".
- arp242 2y ago
  There's honest and there's too honest. I was once rejected with "you don't have the technical depth needed". I appreciate that's what they honestly felt, but sending it back like that was just too honest. Especially because I felt their technical screening process wasn't really all that brilliant (to put it mildly). Something like "we're looking for someone with a different skill set" would still be reasonable honest, but also wouldn't make me feel terrible. The notion that you can fully asses someone's technical abilities from a one-hour interview is mistaken anyway. So an honest reply should take that in to account. --- A second scenario is where I did a take-home code test thinghy. I went for the "simple but obviously correct and easy to implement approach". The performance for that seemed more than enough for the stated use case, and included some benchmarks and a bit of text to justify it. Performance wasn't mentioned in the task, but seems like the common sense thing to do. After a few weeks I got a one-line "doesn't meet expected performance" rejection. Well, you didn't mention what the "expected performance" is motherfucker. That's not what I sent back (I didn't reply at all), but what a fucked up way to evaluate and dismiss people.

arp242 2y ago

I typically send real non-automated replies to everyone as well, even the bullshit applications or "wtf" interviews. Many don't reply (completely fine). Some are very grateful for a real human replying. Some send back a stream of abuse. I agree that doing all of this well is quite time-consuming and stressful. I want to be reasonably honest in why I rejected someone, but also don't want to slag anyone off or make them feel bad. For some this is easy ("we're looking for a tech lead and you're just out of college"), for others not so much. Especially when they seem they might be okay, but you have a bunch of other candidates that just seem much better. Someone that bangs on about tabs vs. spaces would be "we're looking for someone with a more pragmatic approach", although phrasing that well can easily take up 10 minutes. I generally just ignore challenges to my reply, unless there really was a misunderstanding on my part (which did happen once). Still, I think it's worth it, including giving people the ability to reply to the rejection: most of them are positive and grateful – it's just that negative interactions register more strongly. Looking for a job is difficult, stressful, and depressing these days and I've been on the end of that too, and being a bit nice can really make a difference for some people.

pas 2y ago

> How do you tell someone “I’m sorry, you’re too junior, ..." What's wrong with this? :0