8 ms·

Not surprised. I've had a few interactions with Subaru connected services dev team as an external contractor from another car company, everyone was everyone els

by mavdi 2y ago

Not surprised. I've had a few interactions with Subaru connected services dev team as an external contractor from another car company, everyone was everyone else's cousin, friend, homeboy from India. Nepotism was rampant, no one wanted to listen to advice, a strong culture of corporate antibodies had formed. I'm surprised they even got it to work at this level.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
[flagged]
- kccqzy 2y ago
  I've heard of this claim so often that I assume it to be true, though personally I've only had the fortune to work in better environments where my Indian colleagues aren't nepotistic. I suspect this might be related to the hiring bar: if a company only hires the top talent perhaps this would not be an issue.
  - gedy 2y ago
    Unfortunately I think it depends on the number and position of Indian folks. Small numbers where you deal with people individually, I've not seen issues and it's nice to work with Indian devs. In larger numbers or when in charge of hiring, there seems to be a prevalent issue of Indian cultural norms and favors kicking in and it can happen fast.
    - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
      Monocultures are almost always bad, if nothing else they are a signal that you aren't hiring on merit.
      - Cumpiler69 2y ago
        >Monocultures are almost always bad Depends on the culture, the size of the team, the product you're working on and the target demographic.
- duxup 2y ago
  Working across cultures is so wild. I worked in situations where things were outsourced and yeah the Indian experience was horrific. But that also was influenced by the nature of the relationship.... they didn't work "for us" in any real way. I worked for a company where we (a Midwestern company) were acquired by a valley company and at HQ there was a clear divide between the Indian (US citizens, not H1B) folks and the local CA team. It wasn't bad, but you could see it socially and feel the vibe and such. I traveled there a few times and I was just friendly and ... man they were great. Very friendly, very professional, and highly capable. Sometimes I think the business relationships also creates the informal "working culture" too.
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    We once hired an Indian programmer who absolutely didn't get along with his boss, who was also Indian. Turns out the boss was a Dalit and the programmer was a Brahmin. And this is how I learned about the Indian Caste system.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      I am of Indian descent. Apparently from the penultimate caste. Anyway, I had someone from another team inform me of the inferior caste of one of our clients, and why I shouldn’t take shit from them. That said, going back to New Delhi, at least in the circles I travelled in, it’s incredibly taboo to ask about caste. (Comparable to Americans using the n word.)
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        I've learned it is normally pretty easy to tell what caste someone is from. But watching a Brahmin who really believes they are vastly better than Dalits act like as arrogant as the Goa'uld from Stargate SG1 was really something.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > I've learned it is normally pretty easy to tell what caste someone is from With all due respect, you’ve fooled yourself into ignorance. Many Indians haven’t had a relationship with caste for generations, particularly in the cities or upper and middle classes. (Intermarriage and wealth have rendered it indiscernible.) There are also something like 25,000 castes and subcastes. It’s not a system designed for anyone to get right. That convolutedness is almost the point. Moreover, there are tens of millions of Indians who have never had a caste because they belong to a different religion or sect of Hinduism.
- fullofideas 2y ago
  The linked article is about a fraud conducted by a few bad apples. I can see people colluding with others that are similar to them for criminal activities - gangs, drug smuggling, and probably other frauds too. I am not sure how you inferred caste based nepotism among *all* indians in tech from that article.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    For one, I didn't say "all Indians" are bad apples, just that the nepotism and cast issues are rampant enough that it's a know issue at this point in the tech industry where Indians are sometimes overrepresented. Secondly, do you expect people to post links to all cases of Indian nepotism/cast issues in the tech industry, when Google is at your fingertips with enough cases that it's not an isolated incident? That link was one an Indian friend shared right now when I sent him the Subaru link, when I asked him if the nepotism is real.
    - fullofideas 2y ago
      Fair enough that you did not say all Indians. But, your statement was broad enough to say nepotism is widespread among Indians in tech. And the article you linked was about fraud which doesn’t imply widespread nepotism in tech. I am not asking for articles for all instances but something that is more relevant to the point that you are making.
      - Cumpiler69 2y ago
        Sure, but if an group of Indian employees within Apple US are going out of their way to scam their employer for money, it's another black mark on the graph for that demographic being into unethical activities, since then you can't say anymore "well it's just one rouge bad apple, not representative for the whole group" when it's a coordinated effort of a whole group. If they're wiling to go that far to scam their employer it's not a far fetch the fact they're also into nepotism when hiring.
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    I can only say that every Indian boss I got started hiring only Indians.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Indians are some of the most racially nepotistic out there I’ve heard this claim made often here but never observed it in real life. I think you and others who repeat this claim are confusing nepotism with just using one’s network to accelerate hiring. If someone happens to have a social or professional network mostly of one race, that doesn’t mean they’re automatically nepotistic when they draw from that network. Somehow this label rarely arises when white managers end up with mostly white teams. Why is that?
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    > Somehow this label rarely arises when white managers end up with mostly white teams. Why is that? Easy: If you're in a country that's ~90% white, why would it be a surprise that 90% of the labor ends up being white? Are you seriously trying to play dumb and question obvious stuff like demographics under the nepotism/racism playing card? Similarly, why would it be surprising that a team in India is ~100% Indians? But if in a country with a majority white demographic, Indian managers hire their wives, extended family members and Indian connection to work in their teams, therefore excluding a lot of the local, mostly white candidates, from the resume pile out of the get-go, you can't not raise eyebrows and assume potential discriminatory hiring practices, which are illegal in most western nations.
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      You’re making up the assumptions of nepotism. Everyone hires from their network or their employees’ networks. What do you think referral programs are, which are basically at every company? If you’ve worked with someone before and had a positive experience, they’re a much better bet than other candidates. Even if candidates are mostly white locally, the person doing the hiring may have past experiences where their network looks more like wherever they worked previously. That doesn’t mean they’re doing anything discriminatory or nepotistic now - they may just be hiring qualified people from their network, like everyone does. By the way, I haven’t personally seen or heard of any examples of Indians (or other races) hiring wives and family members. This is often alleged and yet I’ve never come across a real life example. I am not saying it doesn’t happen at all, but that if it does, it is probably very rare and no different than how often it can happen with any other group. What I often see is people claiming that Indians hiring Indians (regardless of familial relations) is nepotistic, and I think that’s an assumption without basis.
duxup 2y ago
I love my Subaru as far as reliability, all wheel drive performance in snow and ice, and such. But OMG it's consumer tech was dated when I bough it, and it's just full of inexplicable issues and caveats and such. Even just the limitations and the UX issues are so obvious that it sends a message that if they tried to fix them they would introduce just as many new issues. I'm at the point where despite the car being good, I'm not interested in a new one from Subaru. I just want carplay or android auto whatever similar services a given mobile OS provides to do similar things. That's it, every time it's something else (even when offering car play) from a car maker it is so bad and so naively built that it makes me less confidant in that company. I know, they want my data and all and that's the motivation, but man it's just such a downer with every system.... and here I am with a good car in most respects and I'm not planning on buying from them again.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  yep... there was a tv ad for subaru vehicles a couple of years ago (not that long!), and during the ad, they showed the infotainment system, where the user pans the map on the navigation touchscreen, and the map moves at maybe 1fps! in an ad! I kinda wish they standardized the car interface for tablets (like android auto, but more features), where you could just buy a tablet and insert it in (like din slots for radio, but tablet-sized), and the car would expose some non-critical interfaces to the tablet (AC,...), and you could just buy a replacement tablet if needed. Cars are made to last 10, 15, even more years, while the computers/entertainment devices move a lot faster, and that includes the connectivity (many cars on the streets today were made before 4g, and 3g is mostly dead).
  - monitorlizard 2y ago
    This is a genuinely good idea for a business that I think you should explore further if you have the bandwidth.
  - emeril 2y ago
    i have such a subaru - the nav is a joke - the whole UX for their GUI is bad but the car seems mostly okay recently got a mazda - seems generally better though I think most car interfaces are crap

by mavdi 2y ago

Cumpiler69 2y ago

[flagged]

kccqzy 2y ago
I've heard of this claim so often that I assume it to be true, though personally I've only had the fortune to work in better environments where my Indian colleagues aren't nepotistic. I suspect this might be related to the hiring bar: if a company only hires the top talent perhaps this would not be an issue.
- gedy 2y ago
  Unfortunately I think it depends on the number and position of Indian folks. Small numbers where you deal with people individually, I've not seen issues and it's nice to work with Indian devs. In larger numbers or when in charge of hiring, there seems to be a prevalent issue of Indian cultural norms and favors kicking in and it can happen fast.
  - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
    Monocultures are almost always bad, if nothing else they are a signal that you aren't hiring on merit.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      >Monocultures are almost always bad Depends on the culture, the size of the team, the product you're working on and the target demographic.
duxup 2y ago
Working across cultures is so wild. I worked in situations where things were outsourced and yeah the Indian experience was horrific. But that also was influenced by the nature of the relationship.... they didn't work "for us" in any real way. I worked for a company where we (a Midwestern company) were acquired by a valley company and at HQ there was a clear divide between the Indian (US citizens, not H1B) folks and the local CA team. It wasn't bad, but you could see it socially and feel the vibe and such. I traveled there a few times and I was just friendly and ... man they were great. Very friendly, very professional, and highly capable. Sometimes I think the business relationships also creates the informal "working culture" too.
- UltraSane 2y ago
  We once hired an Indian programmer who absolutely didn't get along with his boss, who was also Indian. Turns out the boss was a Dalit and the programmer was a Brahmin. And this is how I learned about the Indian Caste system.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    I am of Indian descent. Apparently from the penultimate caste. Anyway, I had someone from another team inform me of the inferior caste of one of our clients, and why I shouldn’t take shit from them. That said, going back to New Delhi, at least in the circles I travelled in, it’s incredibly taboo to ask about caste. (Comparable to Americans using the n word.)
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      I've learned it is normally pretty easy to tell what caste someone is from. But watching a Brahmin who really believes they are vastly better than Dalits act like as arrogant as the Goa'uld from Stargate SG1 was really something.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > I've learned it is normally pretty easy to tell what caste someone is from With all due respect, you’ve fooled yourself into ignorance. Many Indians haven’t had a relationship with caste for generations, particularly in the cities or upper and middle classes. (Intermarriage and wealth have rendered it indiscernible.) There are also something like 25,000 castes and subcastes. It’s not a system designed for anyone to get right. That convolutedness is almost the point. Moreover, there are tens of millions of Indians who have never had a caste because they belong to a different religion or sect of Hinduism.
fullofideas 2y ago
The linked article is about a fraud conducted by a few bad apples. I can see people colluding with others that are similar to them for criminal activities - gangs, drug smuggling, and probably other frauds too. I am not sure how you inferred caste based nepotism among *all* indians in tech from that article.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  For one, I didn't say "all Indians" are bad apples, just that the nepotism and cast issues are rampant enough that it's a know issue at this point in the tech industry where Indians are sometimes overrepresented. Secondly, do you expect people to post links to all cases of Indian nepotism/cast issues in the tech industry, when Google is at your fingertips with enough cases that it's not an isolated incident? That link was one an Indian friend shared right now when I sent him the Subaru link, when I asked him if the nepotism is real.
  - fullofideas 2y ago
    Fair enough that you did not say all Indians. But, your statement was broad enough to say nepotism is widespread among Indians in tech. And the article you linked was about fraud which doesn’t imply widespread nepotism in tech. I am not asking for articles for all instances but something that is more relevant to the point that you are making.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      Sure, but if an group of Indian employees within Apple US are going out of their way to scam their employer for money, it's another black mark on the graph for that demographic being into unethical activities, since then you can't say anymore "well it's just one rouge bad apple, not representative for the whole group" when it's a coordinated effort of a whole group. If they're wiling to go that far to scam their employer it's not a far fetch the fact they're also into nepotism when hiring.
- UltraSane 2y ago
  I can only say that every Indian boss I got started hiring only Indians.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
> Indians are some of the most racially nepotistic out there I’ve heard this claim made often here but never observed it in real life. I think you and others who repeat this claim are confusing nepotism with just using one’s network to accelerate hiring. If someone happens to have a social or professional network mostly of one race, that doesn’t mean they’re automatically nepotistic when they draw from that network. Somehow this label rarely arises when white managers end up with mostly white teams. Why is that?
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  > Somehow this label rarely arises when white managers end up with mostly white teams. Why is that? Easy: If you're in a country that's ~90% white, why would it be a surprise that 90% of the labor ends up being white? Are you seriously trying to play dumb and question obvious stuff like demographics under the nepotism/racism playing card? Similarly, why would it be surprising that a team in India is ~100% Indians? But if in a country with a majority white demographic, Indian managers hire their wives, extended family members and Indian connection to work in their teams, therefore excluding a lot of the local, mostly white candidates, from the resume pile out of the get-go, you can't not raise eyebrows and assume potential discriminatory hiring practices, which are illegal in most western nations.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    You’re making up the assumptions of nepotism. Everyone hires from their network or their employees’ networks. What do you think referral programs are, which are basically at every company? If you’ve worked with someone before and had a positive experience, they’re a much better bet than other candidates. Even if candidates are mostly white locally, the person doing the hiring may have past experiences where their network looks more like wherever they worked previously. That doesn’t mean they’re doing anything discriminatory or nepotistic now - they may just be hiring qualified people from their network, like everyone does. By the way, I haven’t personally seen or heard of any examples of Indians (or other races) hiring wives and family members. This is often alleged and yet I’ve never come across a real life example. I am not saying it doesn’t happen at all, but that if it does, it is probably very rare and no different than how often it can happen with any other group. What I often see is people claiming that Indians hiring Indians (regardless of familial relations) is nepotistic, and I think that’s an assumption without basis.

duxup 2y ago

I love my Subaru as far as reliability, all wheel drive performance in snow and ice, and such. But OMG it's consumer tech was dated when I bough it, and it's just full of inexplicable issues and caveats and such. Even just the limitations and the UX issues are so obvious that it sends a message that if they tried to fix them they would introduce just as many new issues. I'm at the point where despite the car being good, I'm not interested in a new one from Subaru. I just want carplay or android auto whatever similar services a given mobile OS provides to do similar things. That's it, every time it's something else (even when offering car play) from a car maker it is so bad and so naively built that it makes me less confidant in that company. I know, they want my data and all and that's the motivation, but man it's just such a downer with every system.... and here I am with a good car in most respects and I'm not planning on buying from them again.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
yep... there was a tv ad for subaru vehicles a couple of years ago (not that long!), and during the ad, they showed the infotainment system, where the user pans the map on the navigation touchscreen, and the map moves at maybe 1fps! in an ad! I kinda wish they standardized the car interface for tablets (like android auto, but more features), where you could just buy a tablet and insert it in (like din slots for radio, but tablet-sized), and the car would expose some non-critical interfaces to the tablet (AC,...), and you could just buy a replacement tablet if needed. Cars are made to last 10, 15, even more years, while the computers/entertainment devices move a lot faster, and that includes the connectivity (many cars on the streets today were made before 4g, and 3g is mostly dead).
- monitorlizard 2y ago
  This is a genuinely good idea for a business that I think you should explore further if you have the bandwidth.
- emeril 2y ago
  i have such a subaru - the nav is a joke - the whole UX for their GUI is bad but the car seems mostly okay recently got a mazda - seems generally better though I think most car interfaces are crap