3 ms·

Can confirm. Whenever I'm reminded of the existence of things like Villagers, or the End, my brain still goes "oh yeah, that new thing they added" before reali

by bakugo 2y ago

Can confirm. Whenever I'm reminded of the existence of things like Villagers, or the End, my brain still goes "oh yeah, that new thing they added" before reality catches up and I realize just how long those things have been in the game. Part of it is because 80%+ of my playtime was before they were added, but I think another part of it is that those things have never really quite fit into the game in my mind.

imtringued 2y ago
The End is akin to an inside joke or maybe a pun. You cannot finish a sandbox game, so Notch deliberately added a dimension that you have to go out of your way for, that is difficult to find, unless someone tells you or you read about it. The End dimension isn't meant to fit in the game. It's meant to subvert the idea of a sandbox game. You can say "I've reached the end of Minecraft" and it is true by the letter of the words, but untrue by the spirit of the words. Beating the Ender Dragon does not mean you finished all the content in Minecraft, since there is content even beyond the Ender Dragon.
- bakugo 2y ago
  > The End dimension isn't meant to fit in the game. It's meant to subvert the idea of a sandbox game. Do you have a source for this? It's the first time I've heard it. > Beating the Ender Dragon does not mean you finished all the content in Minecraft, since there is content even beyond the Ender Dragon. In theory, maybe. But in practice? The mere existence of a tangible end goal fundamentally changes the way people approach the game, even if there's more to do beyond it. Here's a very good video about this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDBJg886EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDBJg886EA
  - asddubs 2y ago
    I agree with this in general but I don't think minecraft falls into this trap because beating the ender dragon is so anticlimactic and trivial that it doesn't feel like you accomplished much. In terraria, an ostensibly similar sandbox game with a much more linear progression, if I beat the final boss, I really do feel like there's nothing else to do and stop playing that world. In modded minecraft packs with quest books, it's the same thing. But in vanilla minecraft, beating the ender dragon is just something you do because you want elytra wings.
    - bakugo 2y ago
      Beating the dragon is very anticlimactic, but it's still the "end" of the progression path as designed by the developers. Or at least it was before the Elytra was added, now that's the actual end. But either way, reaching that end goal usually prompts people to ask themselves: "what now?" Once you have an Elytra, you've basically unlocked creative flight in survival, and that's pretty much where survival itself ends, now you're just playing creative except you still have to grind for building materials. There's no better item to go for, so what's the point? Most people stop playing shortly after, and this is where the whole "2 week Minecraft phase" thing originates from.
      - bombcar 2y ago
        Elytra is anything but creative flight (as it glides, you can't hover) - but it does destroy any real sense of scale or travel. Some people can't play Minecraft until they rush the elytra, some end up abandoning a world shortly after they get it.
        skykooler 2y ago
        You can basically hover by combining elytra with a Slow Falling potion.
  - tialaramex 2y ago
    I've actually never beaten the Ender Dragon in Vanilla. But, I've killed lots of Ender Dragons in modpacks, and occasionally either: There is no Ender Dragon, the pack doesn't need this so it's elided entirely or, that's where you start so the Ender Dragon is an early fight. For example Star Factory clearly doesn't need an Ender Dragon fight, there are no bad guys at all, you're making a factory. For stars. "The End" is clearly as much as anything a joke, the original game didn't have an end and so people asked for one, OK, here's "The End" for whatever that's worth.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  It's like launching the rocket in vanilla Factorio.
  - rcxdude 2y ago
    I would say it's less of a defined end than that: it basically only exists because Notch was coming up to the official non-beta release and felt like there should be something resembling an ending to the game if he was going to call it 'done'. (and then later on more stuff was added 'after the end': the end dimenson was initially only the island and the dragon)
    - throwawaymobule 2y ago
      You have to put the credits somewhere, and that's a good place to put them.
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    Vanilla factorio is a myth. Factorio without mods, like KSP without mods, is only played by people without internet connections. The DPRK probably has a thriving vanilla factorio community!
    - Toutouxc 2y ago
      Some people don't mod games. I, for example, want to play (and enjoy and judge) exactly what the dev team intended, and if I don't like it, I drop the game. I played vanilla Skyrim, vanilla Minecraft, vanilla Stalker and many more games that are famous for their mod community. But I'm also an Apple user and I mostly game on PlayStation, so it's probably just part of my personality somehow.
      - homebrewer 2y ago
        Nah, I'm a die-hard Linux user that's been running heavily customized Arch for as long as it's been around, and I have the same attitude towards games. Spent countless hours in Minecraft¹, zero desire to mod it. ¹: with a good internet connection that's been used to download podcasts to go along with it
- Wowfunhappy 2y ago
  I'm not convinced this was the intention. I remember there used to be some writing by Notch on Minecraft's website that went something like (paraphrasing from memory): "When thinking about whether to make the game easier or harder, I generally lean towards harder. This might make the game frustrating if there isn't some sort of goal, so I think I will have to build in a goal for players." I'm sure this passage is long gone, I unfortunately don't have time to go digging through the Internet Archive right now. But I assume this "goal" become The End.
Suppafly 2y ago
>Whenever I'm reminded of the existence of things like Villagers, or the End, my brain still goes "oh yeah, that new thing they added" before reality catches up and I realize just how long those things have been in the game. Same, one of my kids will randomly want me to play and I'm constantly surprised by some 'new' thing that's literally been in the game for 10 years. It's kinda cool that minecraft has existed as a thing for basically my kids' entire lives, and oldest is in college now.

by bakugo 2y ago

imtringued 2y ago

The End is akin to an inside joke or maybe a pun. You cannot finish a sandbox game, so Notch deliberately added a dimension that you have to go out of your way for, that is difficult to find, unless someone tells you or you read about it. The End dimension isn't meant to fit in the game. It's meant to subvert the idea of a sandbox game. You can say "I've reached the end of Minecraft" and it is true by the letter of the words, but untrue by the spirit of the words. Beating the Ender Dragon does not mean you finished all the content in Minecraft, since there is content even beyond the Ender Dragon.

bakugo 2y ago
> The End dimension isn't meant to fit in the game. It's meant to subvert the idea of a sandbox game. Do you have a source for this? It's the first time I've heard it. > Beating the Ender Dragon does not mean you finished all the content in Minecraft, since there is content even beyond the Ender Dragon. In theory, maybe. But in practice? The mere existence of a tangible end goal fundamentally changes the way people approach the game, even if there's more to do beyond it. Here's a very good video about this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDBJg886EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDBJg886EA
- asddubs 2y ago
  I agree with this in general but I don't think minecraft falls into this trap because beating the ender dragon is so anticlimactic and trivial that it doesn't feel like you accomplished much. In terraria, an ostensibly similar sandbox game with a much more linear progression, if I beat the final boss, I really do feel like there's nothing else to do and stop playing that world. In modded minecraft packs with quest books, it's the same thing. But in vanilla minecraft, beating the ender dragon is just something you do because you want elytra wings.
  - bakugo 2y ago
    Beating the dragon is very anticlimactic, but it's still the "end" of the progression path as designed by the developers. Or at least it was before the Elytra was added, now that's the actual end. But either way, reaching that end goal usually prompts people to ask themselves: "what now?" Once you have an Elytra, you've basically unlocked creative flight in survival, and that's pretty much where survival itself ends, now you're just playing creative except you still have to grind for building materials. There's no better item to go for, so what's the point? Most people stop playing shortly after, and this is where the whole "2 week Minecraft phase" thing originates from.
    - bombcar 2y ago
      Elytra is anything but creative flight (as it glides, you can't hover) - but it does destroy any real sense of scale or travel. Some people can't play Minecraft until they rush the elytra, some end up abandoning a world shortly after they get it.
      - skykooler 2y ago
        You can basically hover by combining elytra with a Slow Falling potion.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  I've actually never beaten the Ender Dragon in Vanilla. But, I've killed lots of Ender Dragons in modpacks, and occasionally either: There is no Ender Dragon, the pack doesn't need this so it's elided entirely or, that's where you start so the Ender Dragon is an early fight. For example Star Factory clearly doesn't need an Ender Dragon fight, there are no bad guys at all, you're making a factory. For stars. "The End" is clearly as much as anything a joke, the original game didn't have an end and so people asked for one, OK, here's "The End" for whatever that's worth.
HPsquared 2y ago
It's like launching the rocket in vanilla Factorio.
- rcxdude 2y ago
  I would say it's less of a defined end than that: it basically only exists because Notch was coming up to the official non-beta release and felt like there should be something resembling an ending to the game if he was going to call it 'done'. (and then later on more stuff was added 'after the end': the end dimenson was initially only the island and the dragon)
  - throwawaymobule 2y ago
    You have to put the credits somewhere, and that's a good place to put them.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  Vanilla factorio is a myth. Factorio without mods, like KSP without mods, is only played by people without internet connections. The DPRK probably has a thriving vanilla factorio community!
  - Toutouxc 2y ago
    Some people don't mod games. I, for example, want to play (and enjoy and judge) exactly what the dev team intended, and if I don't like it, I drop the game. I played vanilla Skyrim, vanilla Minecraft, vanilla Stalker and many more games that are famous for their mod community. But I'm also an Apple user and I mostly game on PlayStation, so it's probably just part of my personality somehow.
    - homebrewer 2y ago
      Nah, I'm a die-hard Linux user that's been running heavily customized Arch for as long as it's been around, and I have the same attitude towards games. Spent countless hours in Minecraft¹, zero desire to mod it. ¹: with a good internet connection that's been used to download podcasts to go along with it
Wowfunhappy 2y ago
I'm not convinced this was the intention. I remember there used to be some writing by Notch on Minecraft's website that went something like (paraphrasing from memory): "When thinking about whether to make the game easier or harder, I generally lean towards harder. This might make the game frustrating if there isn't some sort of goal, so I think I will have to build in a goal for players." I'm sure this passage is long gone, I unfortunately don't have time to go digging through the Internet Archive right now. But I assume this "goal" become The End.

Suppafly 2y ago

>Whenever I'm reminded of the existence of things like Villagers, or the End, my brain still goes "oh yeah, that new thing they added" before reality catches up and I realize just how long those things have been in the game. Same, one of my kids will randomly want me to play and I'm constantly surprised by some 'new' thing that's literally been in the game for 10 years. It's kinda cool that minecraft has existed as a thing for basically my kids' entire lives, and oldest is in college now.