3 ms·

Roughly speaking, when I've looked into this comparison, for near-median earners, they're better off in the UK, because of things like healthcare. But when you

Roughly speaking, when I've looked into this comparison, for near-median earners, they're better off in the UK, because of things like healthcare. But when you look at the higher-earning roles, especially engineering or software, then the different in pay more than makes up for the increased cost of living (i.e. a higher percentage of your pay may go towards cost of living, but the smaller percentage of money left over is still larger in absolute terms). There's other tradeoffs in terms of work culture and so on, though (e.g. you get much more holiday in the UK).

bko 2y ago
Can you share your research? In the US, the average out-of-pocket healthcare spending was $1,424.6 per capita in 2022 Most people have insurance. They might have some high out of pocket maximum like $10k. So worse case scenario you're out an additional $10k. But you pay a lot less in taxes In US, a single filer, the 12% bracket covers income from $11,926 to $48,475. In UK it's 20% So at 40k you're paying an additional 3k in taxes, not to mention VAT and others (although I am ignoring other US taxes like state, local and payroll). More than covers your out of pocket healthcare costs. And pretty much any job in the US is significantly higher paying, for instance a typical accountant in US makes 80k while in the uk that 37k pounds. Pretty much every office job is like this. And note the US 80k figures includes benefits like ... you guessed it, healthcare! Even if make the generous assumptions that taxes are the same, UK has same healthcare quality and everyone is hitting out of pocket max every year, it's still not close. The whole "but we don't have to pay for healthcare" strikes me as just a cope. https://www.statista.com/statistics/484578/us-per-capita-out-of-pocket-health-care-payments-since-1960/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/484578/us-per-capita-out... https://www.allbusinessschools.com/accounting/salary/ https://www.allbusinessschools.com/accounting/salary/ https://uk.indeed.com/career/accountant/salaries https://uk.indeed.com/career/accountant/salaries
- g8oz 2y ago
  I think if the health insurance situation was as rosy in the U.S as you make out there would not have been as much support for the killer of the United Healthcare CEO. The figure for the average out of pocket expenses hides a lot of pain.
  - epistasis 2y ago
    People have lots of anger about healthcare for many many reasons. I can't tell you how many people I've met who are angry about "Obamacare" but don't realize how it helped them compared to the prior situation. There's also lots of anger at the prices for healthcare that we sometimes see, and that anger gets directed at insurance too, even if it's a hospital or other provider setting the prices. And then there's the anxiety of "will this be covered." Even without out of pocket costs there's lots of reasons to be angry at insurers.
    - MrBrobot 2y ago
      Whether you agree with the Affordable Healthcare Act or not, I feel like nobody remembers “lifetime maximums.” I have some relatively minor (but massively impactful) pre-existing conditions, and I would have exceeded my lifetime maximum by age 30 due to testing, procedures, hospital stays, etc. I have family members that would have exceeded theirs before age 1.
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        How does the concept of health insurance, risk pooling, etc., make sense if there are no lifetime maximums…? Eventually 100% of the population will need healthcare of some type. And without maximums to plan and set prices against, wouldn’t it just be a wealth transfer scheme from the relatively young and healthy to the particularly old and sick…? (With those in the middle roughly neutral) At least I can’t see any credible way to insure against something 100% of all possible customers will need.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        epistasis 2y ago
        Health insurance is already a huge transfer to older generations (not that that's a bad thing). Medicare pays for older folks but it doesn't pay anywhere near the cost of the services that older folks receive. Prices are higher for everyone else to fill the gap at health care providers. Health insurance is in many ways not even insurance, it's in many ways a price negotiation mechanism. Anyway the whole system is overly complex, based off a tax credit from the 1950s, but the transition to a new scheme is nearly impossible while one political party is dead set against any improvement, especially if it might be perceived as a positive for the other political party, and also they have become so hyper partisan that they are not allowed to work with the other party in a bipartisan manner.
- Tade0 2y ago
  > So at 40k you're paying an additional 3k in taxes Your calculations don't take into account personal allowance, which is £12750($15680) in the UK. At $40k the difference is much closer to $1.5k. Also there's the question of costs of living. That same 40k buys you 30% more in the UK if you're including rent.
- estreeper 2y ago
  Total healthcare spending per capita includes insurance premiums too though, which is $8,951 for single coverage and $25,572 for family coverage[0], and needs to be added to that ~$1,400 to get the total cost. Some amount of this may be paid by employers, but is still theoretically money that could go to you otherwise. [0] https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2024-section-1-cost-of-health-insurance/ https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2024-section-1-cost-...

bko 2y ago

Can you share your research? In the US, the average out-of-pocket healthcare spending was $1,424.6 per capita in 2022 Most people have insurance. They might have some high out of pocket maximum like $10k. So worse case scenario you're out an additional $10k. But you pay a lot less in taxes In US, a single filer, the 12% bracket covers income from $11,926 to $48,475. In UK it's 20% So at 40k you're paying an additional 3k in taxes, not to mention VAT and others (although I am ignoring other US taxes like state, local and payroll). More than covers your out of pocket healthcare costs. And pretty much any job in the US is significantly higher paying, for instance a typical accountant in US makes 80k while in the uk that 37k pounds. Pretty much every office job is like this. And note the US 80k figures includes benefits like ... you guessed it, healthcare! Even if make the generous assumptions that taxes are the same, UK has same healthcare quality and everyone is hitting out of pocket max every year, it's still not close. The whole "but we don't have to pay for healthcare" strikes me as just a cope. https://www.statista.com/statistics/484578/us-per-capita-out-of-pocket-health-care-payments-since-1960/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/484578/us-per-capita-out... https://www.allbusinessschools.com/accounting/salary/ https://www.allbusinessschools.com/accounting/salary/ https://uk.indeed.com/career/accountant/salaries https://uk.indeed.com/career/accountant/salaries

g8oz 2y ago
I think if the health insurance situation was as rosy in the U.S as you make out there would not have been as much support for the killer of the United Healthcare CEO. The figure for the average out of pocket expenses hides a lot of pain.
- epistasis 2y ago
  People have lots of anger about healthcare for many many reasons. I can't tell you how many people I've met who are angry about "Obamacare" but don't realize how it helped them compared to the prior situation. There's also lots of anger at the prices for healthcare that we sometimes see, and that anger gets directed at insurance too, even if it's a hospital or other provider setting the prices. And then there's the anxiety of "will this be covered." Even without out of pocket costs there's lots of reasons to be angry at insurers.
  - MrBrobot 2y ago
    Whether you agree with the Affordable Healthcare Act or not, I feel like nobody remembers “lifetime maximums.” I have some relatively minor (but massively impactful) pre-existing conditions, and I would have exceeded my lifetime maximum by age 30 due to testing, procedures, hospital stays, etc. I have family members that would have exceeded theirs before age 1.
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      How does the concept of health insurance, risk pooling, etc., make sense if there are no lifetime maximums…? Eventually 100% of the population will need healthcare of some type. And without maximums to plan and set prices against, wouldn’t it just be a wealth transfer scheme from the relatively young and healthy to the particularly old and sick…? (With those in the middle roughly neutral) At least I can’t see any credible way to insure against something 100% of all possible customers will need.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - epistasis 2y ago
        Health insurance is already a huge transfer to older generations (not that that's a bad thing). Medicare pays for older folks but it doesn't pay anywhere near the cost of the services that older folks receive. Prices are higher for everyone else to fill the gap at health care providers. Health insurance is in many ways not even insurance, it's in many ways a price negotiation mechanism. Anyway the whole system is overly complex, based off a tax credit from the 1950s, but the transition to a new scheme is nearly impossible while one political party is dead set against any improvement, especially if it might be perceived as a positive for the other political party, and also they have become so hyper partisan that they are not allowed to work with the other party in a bipartisan manner.
Tade0 2y ago
> So at 40k you're paying an additional 3k in taxes Your calculations don't take into account personal allowance, which is £12750($15680) in the UK. At $40k the difference is much closer to $1.5k. Also there's the question of costs of living. That same 40k buys you 30% more in the UK if you're including rent.
estreeper 2y ago
Total healthcare spending per capita includes insurance premiums too though, which is $8,951 for single coverage and $25,572 for family coverage[0], and needs to be added to that ~$1,400 to get the total cost. Some amount of this may be paid by employers, but is still theoretically money that could go to you otherwise. [0] https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2024-section-1-cost-of-health-insurance/ https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2024-section-1-cost-...