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I downloaded SnapCalorie to try it out on Android. I went all the way through the sign-up phase, only to discovery that I would need to activate subscription in

by mrgaro 2y ago

I downloaded SnapCalorie to try it out on Android. I went all the way through the sign-up phase, only to discovery that I would need to activate subscription in order to have the 7-day trial. Ended up uninstalling the app :(

wnorris510 2y ago
We're an early stage startup and the models are expensive, we're trying to get the price as low as possible, but yes we need to charge to cover costs right now. Sorry about that! You might get a yearly discount offer that is less than $2/month if you get lucky (A/B test split). But that's less than the cost of running the model for people, so hopefully others will consider paying full price.
- ploynog 2y ago
  I think the complaint is that you only get told that you require a paid plan AFTER signing up. At least on a brief look on the Play Store page and your website, it does not immediately mention it prominently. That seems like a very dark pattern and is, honestly, pretty scummy.
  - DrillShopper 2y ago
    It doesn't seem like - it is Which makes it par for the course in the scam that is mobile development
  - wnorris510 2y ago
    This is not a dark pattern, it's just a constraint that the app stores place on the pricing disclosure that is very non-intuitive. You have to mark your app as "free" to download if you charge a recurring subscription fee. You can only mark it as paid if there is a one time fee to download the app. Our FAQ and pricing pages all list that it is a paid only app. All of our ads explain that it's subscription based. Anyone who asks we're very transparent about it. If there's somewhere else where you think we can list it to make it more clear I'm happy to add it, just not sure where that would be.
    - felideon 2y ago
      What FAQ and pricing pages? Your website makes no mention of pricing at all. Edit: The "dark" pattern is in the registration flow. It doesn't mention that the app requires a subscription anywhere until after you've created an account. Surely you could add a disclaimer before creating your account? This has nothing to do with the App Store. Edit 2: I'm not saying you intended to implement a dark pattern. Just perhaps a UX oversight. Edit 3: The download page would be another great place to put this info, since that's the primary CTA on the home page (there's 4 prominent download buttons).
      - wnorris510 2y ago
        Looks like we used to have it in the description on the app store along with the FAQ but a team member made the decision to remove it because of complaints about it being inconsistent with the way Apple was localizing pricing to different currencies and regions. We can't hit people with the paywall before they've registered because we need to assign the trial to their user record. We've tried adding more language during onboarding but no one reads any of it, they just click through. You're mistaking challenges in building a global app for malicious intent. I left a job paying a lot more to do this because I wanted to help people. We'll add something back to the FAQ on this, thank you all for pointing it out.
        felideon 2y ago
        > You're mistaking challenges in building a global app for malicious intent. Perhaps the grandparent comment of mine did, not me. > We'll add something back to the FAQ on this, thank you all for pointing it out. So people don't read onboarding instructions, but you're going to bury the pricing info in an FAQ in the App Store where it's hidden below the fold? The fix is quite easy. Here's a redesign for your in-app registration screen: Create account ┌────────────────┐ │Name │ └────────────────┘ ┌────────────────┐ │Email │ └────────────────┘ ┌────────────────┐ │Password │ └────────────────┘ ┌────────────┐ │ Register │ └────────────┘ 7-day free trial, $6.67/mo after
    - 2y ago
- tln 2y ago
  I'm on an annual plan from another app (Calory, $30) otherwise I would have bit. It gives some features with a totally free plan. That makes the IaP feel less like a bait and switch. The proposition of SnapCalorie is compelling. Calory ui is decent and I use a scale so accuracy should be good but I think their database is shitty. Meatloaf will vary from 1.5 kcal/g to 3, steak will show as 1 kcal/g, stuff like that.
  - wnorris510 2y ago
    You can start a 7 day free trial and cancel immediately. There is also a freemium tier at the end if you don't end up converting. We don't normally advertise this because we've been struggling to handle the load and costs of new users, but hopefully as we scale up we'll be able to support a free tier for everyone!
- mrgaro 2y ago
  Thanks for you quick answer. I want to clarify that I would have liked to try the app for a few days before activating subscription. Now with the current flow I would need to activate the subscription and then immediately go to Play Store settings to deactivate the subscription so that I would not forget it.
  - Dilettante_ 2y ago
    That's pretty standard for free trials in my experience. Amazon prime, audible, musescore, I'd be harder pressed to think of a service I've recently tried where it was not like that.
  - wnorris510 2y ago
    We don't discourage anyone from doing this! Free trial with access to all features stays live for the full 7 days even if you cancel immediately. Hope you enjoy it.
DrillShopper 2y ago
This is the problem with any fitness app. They either need to show you ads, charge you for premium for services that used to be free making your free tier functionally useless (looking at you, MFP who gated barcode scanning behind their honestly ludicrously priced subscription), or sell your data, and they often do all three. The entire industry is like this, and honestly an app that charges one time and fucks off would be ideal but given the amount you'd probably need to charge as a one off (or for major upgrades) most consumers would rather have the slow bleed of $10/mo than $25 one time.
- wnorris510 2y ago
  You really don't want to pay a one-time fee, it incentives the developers to stop maintaining the app.
  - saulpw 2y ago
    This would often be a feature.
    - pixl97 2y ago
      Except most app stores require future maintenance and compliance to keep publishing the app. Someone has to keep the lights on.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    I like the general idea of ongoing revenue, but I want to pay something on par with buying a full version every 3-5 years. Subscription software usually costs much more than that.
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    I would love for developers to stop messing with most apps.
    - wnorris510 2y ago
      Haha, you say this until Apple does a breaking change to the barcode library or Apple Health export and things stop working. Then you probably want them to change some stuff :)
mattlondon 2y ago
Thanks - just read this comment while it was downloading and installing, so uninstalled straight away. Back to fitness pal and scanning barcodes (which is not really much of a hardship tbh)

by mrgaro 2y ago

wnorris510 2y ago

We're an early stage startup and the models are expensive, we're trying to get the price as low as possible, but yes we need to charge to cover costs right now. Sorry about that! You might get a yearly discount offer that is less than $2/month if you get lucky (A/B test split). But that's less than the cost of running the model for people, so hopefully others will consider paying full price.

ploynog 2y ago
I think the complaint is that you only get told that you require a paid plan AFTER signing up. At least on a brief look on the Play Store page and your website, it does not immediately mention it prominently. That seems like a very dark pattern and is, honestly, pretty scummy.
- DrillShopper 2y ago
  It doesn't seem like - it is Which makes it par for the course in the scam that is mobile development
- wnorris510 2y ago
  This is not a dark pattern, it's just a constraint that the app stores place on the pricing disclosure that is very non-intuitive. You have to mark your app as "free" to download if you charge a recurring subscription fee. You can only mark it as paid if there is a one time fee to download the app. Our FAQ and pricing pages all list that it is a paid only app. All of our ads explain that it's subscription based. Anyone who asks we're very transparent about it. If there's somewhere else where you think we can list it to make it more clear I'm happy to add it, just not sure where that would be.
  - felideon 2y ago
    What FAQ and pricing pages? Your website makes no mention of pricing at all. Edit: The "dark" pattern is in the registration flow. It doesn't mention that the app requires a subscription anywhere until after you've created an account. Surely you could add a disclaimer before creating your account? This has nothing to do with the App Store. Edit 2: I'm not saying you intended to implement a dark pattern. Just perhaps a UX oversight. Edit 3: The download page would be another great place to put this info, since that's the primary CTA on the home page (there's 4 prominent download buttons).
    - wnorris510 2y ago
      Looks like we used to have it in the description on the app store along with the FAQ but a team member made the decision to remove it because of complaints about it being inconsistent with the way Apple was localizing pricing to different currencies and regions. We can't hit people with the paywall before they've registered because we need to assign the trial to their user record. We've tried adding more language during onboarding but no one reads any of it, they just click through. You're mistaking challenges in building a global app for malicious intent. I left a job paying a lot more to do this because I wanted to help people. We'll add something back to the FAQ on this, thank you all for pointing it out.
      - felideon 2y ago
        > You're mistaking challenges in building a global app for malicious intent. Perhaps the grandparent comment of mine did, not me. > We'll add something back to the FAQ on this, thank you all for pointing it out. So people don't read onboarding instructions, but you're going to bury the pricing info in an FAQ in the App Store where it's hidden below the fold? The fix is quite easy. Here's a redesign for your in-app registration screen: Create account ┌────────────────┐ │Name │ └────────────────┘ ┌────────────────┐ │Email │ └────────────────┘ ┌────────────────┐ │Password │ └────────────────┘ ┌────────────┐ │ Register │ └────────────┘ 7-day free trial, $6.67/mo after
  - 2y ago
tln 2y ago
I'm on an annual plan from another app (Calory, $30) otherwise I would have bit. It gives some features with a totally free plan. That makes the IaP feel less like a bait and switch. The proposition of SnapCalorie is compelling. Calory ui is decent and I use a scale so accuracy should be good but I think their database is shitty. Meatloaf will vary from 1.5 kcal/g to 3, steak will show as 1 kcal/g, stuff like that.
- wnorris510 2y ago
  You can start a 7 day free trial and cancel immediately. There is also a freemium tier at the end if you don't end up converting. We don't normally advertise this because we've been struggling to handle the load and costs of new users, but hopefully as we scale up we'll be able to support a free tier for everyone!
mrgaro 2y ago
Thanks for you quick answer. I want to clarify that I would have liked to try the app for a few days before activating subscription. Now with the current flow I would need to activate the subscription and then immediately go to Play Store settings to deactivate the subscription so that I would not forget it.
- Dilettante_ 2y ago
  That's pretty standard for free trials in my experience. Amazon prime, audible, musescore, I'd be harder pressed to think of a service I've recently tried where it was not like that.
- wnorris510 2y ago
  We don't discourage anyone from doing this! Free trial with access to all features stays live for the full 7 days even if you cancel immediately. Hope you enjoy it.

DrillShopper 2y ago

This is the problem with any fitness app. They either need to show you ads, charge you for premium for services that used to be free making your free tier functionally useless (looking at you, MFP who gated barcode scanning behind their honestly ludicrously priced subscription), or sell your data, and they often do all three. The entire industry is like this, and honestly an app that charges one time and fucks off would be ideal but given the amount you'd probably need to charge as a one off (or for major upgrades) most consumers would rather have the slow bleed of $10/mo than $25 one time.

wnorris510 2y ago
You really don't want to pay a one-time fee, it incentives the developers to stop maintaining the app.
- saulpw 2y ago
  This would often be a feature.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    Except most app stores require future maintenance and compliance to keep publishing the app. Someone has to keep the lights on.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  I like the general idea of ongoing revenue, but I want to pay something on par with buying a full version every 3-5 years. Subscription software usually costs much more than that.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  I would love for developers to stop messing with most apps.
  - wnorris510 2y ago
    Haha, you say this until Apple does a breaking change to the barcode library or Apple Health export and things stop working. Then you probably want them to change some stuff :)

mattlondon 2y ago

Thanks - just read this comment while it was downloading and installing, so uninstalled straight away. Back to fitness pal and scanning barcodes (which is not really much of a hardship tbh)