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Poland fumes over US block on AI chips
- rob74 2y ago> It therefore came as a shock when Warsaw was the most notable European Union victim of the decision by the administration of U.S. President Joe Biden last week to cap coveted AI chip exports. The link to the decision (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/13/fact-sheet-ensuring-u-s-security-and-economic-strength-in-the-age-of-artificial-intelligence/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...) already ends in a 404 error (with an unmistakably Trump-like text "Page not found - go home"). But maybe Poland can set its hopes on Trump willing to overturn all of his predecessor's decisions, even though the current Polish government is probably not to his liking?
- agilob 2y agoI heard from Polish news that Spanish government formed a dedicated team to negotiate with US and they succeed, yet Polish government wasn't interested in the talks at all despite being invited to.
- skirge 2y agobeing efficient is not a strongest side of any polish politician
- kragen 2y agoI wonder if the PRC will allow Poland to buy “AI chips” (TPUs?) from them once SMIC catches up a bit more. If not Poland, what about Turkey, South Africa, India, Switzerland, Israel, and Brazil? The US policy could easily backfire.
- perihelions 2y agoUS export controls splitting the EU along Iron Curtain boundaries is a philosophical repudiation of America's top diplomatic victories of the 20th century. Disturbing to see the US denying its alliance with individual members—to me, it's reminiscent of #47's comments denying US' responsibility towards Montenegro, except this one's on the other guy, the supposedly diplomatic one, the supposed champion of alliances in a US-led unipolar free world. I think it must be a double shock to EU politics to see both American sides' contempt for the unity/solidarity of the EU.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoThere might be things the US knows that maybe even the Polish government doesn’t - for example maybe there are Polish firms that have business ties to China and have funneled chips or other tech there previously. Or maybe there are implications based on local laws. I’m speculating, but I think there are possibilities that explain the split.
- belter 2y agoNow you have to explain the limitations they also included on Portugal (but not on Spain). Portugal being one of the most pro USA European countries and a NATO founding member.
- perihelions 2y agoOr Lithuania, arguably[0] the most anti-China member of NATO. *That's* the NATO ally (!) they chose to blacklist, with their anti-China chip export ban? [0] https://apnews.com/article/business-china-beijing-global-trade-taiwan-4f242182421d1fc864ee751d158c046c https://apnews.com/article/business-china-beijing-global-tra... ("EU launches WTO action against China over Lithuania dispute")
- belter 2y agoMaybe we just admit they are incompetent.... :-)
- throwaway48476 2y agoI doubt Lithuania has the budget to buy enough chips for the cap to matter.
- qwytw 2y ago> Or Lithuania, arguably[0] the most anti-China Also one one of the biggest resellers of various products to Russia and other economically affiliated countries they don't even produce locally. e.g. https://www.tridge.com/news/strange-news-of-the-day-lithuania-is-the-leader-in https://www.tridge.com/news/strange-news-of-the-day-lithuani... Also countries like Lithuania are not blacklisted. They are still allowed to buy GPUs/etc. below a certain cap. Realistically their domestic demand is nowhere near the cap. So what's' the problem exactly? (unless they want to resell those chips to third parties)
- gunian 2y agowonder what geopolitical dynamic is at play are there any nations that are rivals or allies with Poland the US is thinking about
- Argonaut998 2y agoI think the USA just wants to keep Europe militarily and economically weak. Poland’s military is soon to be the strongest in Europe (if it isn’t already). I think Europe, NATO notwithstanding, needs to realise the USA isn’t a wholly reliable ally, especially under Trump.
- pydry 2y agoIt doesnt necessarily want weak, but it does want to prioritize its own military requirements and it does want European dependence on the US. Controls like these look like they are designed to be repealed if Europe does as it is told and increases defence spending to 5% of gdp (presumably by spending more on other American weapons).
- tmnvdb 2y agoThat argument would make more sense if they did not include Poland, the biggest per capita spender and a staunch US ally.
- pydry 2y agoThey're still not even close to 5%. The US doesnt treat any of its puppets particularly well. America treats its European allies a bit like Moscow treats its Belarussian ally. With the new administration that is becoming clearer than ever.
- tmnvdb 2y agoPoland is aiming for 4.7% in 2025 and is supporting Trumps proposal for 5% for NATO. Meanwhile Italy is allowed to buy chips with 1.5% defense spending. It doesn't make sense to think that defense spending is the criterion used to select the countries.
- H8crilA 2y agoInternational politics aside, what is this ban exactly about? I doubt that all GPUs or all ASICs will be banned to those countries. Is there some regulatory agency that defines what's an (advanced) AI chip? Do they go by transistor count, or by the amount of fast RAM?
- qwytw 2y agoExports are obviously not banned... They added a cap and some additional restrictions on Poland and similar countries though Specifically: > Those on the tier two list will see the number of AI chips - called graphics processing units (GPUs) - capped at 50,000 unless they have a special license.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Temporary_31337 2y agoI don’t think that was thought through at all, just some stupid political posturing. First of all lots of chips are in data centres already. Google has one in Poland. There’s freedom of movement and business across EU so any Polish citizen can set up company in Germany buy the chips and legally drive them over the border - there’s no border checks in Schengen area- bit like US interstate borders.
- melchizedek6809 2y agoThat particular border actually does get controlled these days, got held up at the German-Polish border just a week or so ago: https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/2024/09/binnengrenzkontrollen_en.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/202... But of course your overall point stands
- patrickmcnamara 2y agoThey're just checking for illegal immigration though, right? Not like they'll care about GPUs going across the border.
- melchizedek6809 2y agoSeemed that way, in my case at least they only really checked the passports. Doubt they'd notice or care if one brings a trunkload full of GPUs across the border.
- diggan 2y ago> there’s no border checks in Schengen area This is no longer true, they've done a "Temporary Reintroduction of Border Control", and bunch of countries have implemented more control as of late. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-...
- jajko 2y ago
- bluecalm 2y agoDoesn't it go directly against EU common market rules? I mean, I can start a company in Germany with the sole purpose to buy chips and sell them to a Polish company. If EU interferes that would be breaking the main purpose of it - a common market and free movement of people and goods. It's a slap towards EU from Biden's admin. Thankfully as of today they are gone. Let's hope Trump's administration presents a more EU friendly view on this issue.
- arlort 2y ago> Let's hope Trump's administration presents a more EU friendly view on this issue. Is this sarcasm?
- nxm 2y agoTrump's been a staunch supporter of Poland and has granted Visa waivers for entry into the US for its citizens. Trump, in my view, doesn't see EU as enemy but an ally that's been taking advantage of the US especially on trade and defense spending. Some of the gripes, which are valid: - U.S. provides bulk of the defense for NATO at the moment - EU currently imposes a 10 percent tariff on US cars
- qwytw 2y ago> EU currently imposes a 10 percent tariff on US cars And it's 45% on Chinese EVs. 10% isn't that high and it's not like there is a lot of demand for American cars in Europe anyway (American companies besides Tesla hardly produces any cars these days anyway, unless you count trucks)
- min8888 2y agoIt's mostly defence against those pissed of by the US though, so seems fair.
- dfgtyu65r 2y ago> Let's hope Trump's administration presents a more EU friendly view on this issue. Is that likely?
- themgt 2y agoYou can find the WH fact sheet in web archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20250118190105/https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/13/fact-sheet-ensuring-u-s-security-and-economic-strength-in-the-age-of-artificial-intelligence/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250118190105/https://www.white... The actual federal register rule is here: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/15/2025-00636/framework-for-artificial-intelligence-diffusion https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/15/2025-00...
- Etheryte 2y agoPolitics aside, I wonder how you would technically implement something like that. For most practical intents and purposes, goods and services flow freely inside the EU. If your company has a legal body in say both Spain and Poland, can it procure the chips? Once it has the chips, it can simply ship them to Poland, no questions asked. What if a Spanish company buys chips, then a Polish company acquires them? Etc, I don't really see what a feasible implementation of this idea would look like.
- netdevphoenix 2y agoVendors will likely be required to state purpose and usage for the chips and the hips would probably have some kind of id or batch number so if at some point your chip ends up somewhere it's not supposed to you lose your license and maybe your whole country relevant enforcement authority reviews your activities and punishes you further. Rogue agents will likely be costly to their home countries so countries will have an incentive to prevent rule breaking. It's like stealing an apple from a shop, sure you can do it a few times but eventually you will be arrested.
- lukan 2y ago"It's like stealing an apple from a shop, sure you can do it a few times but eventually you will be arrested." If the US target only a single state of the EU and the results are complicated, then this is a really weird comparison. Imagine the EU would restrict some arbitary good from reaching Texas. What would be the likely reaction? Now the EU is not as united as the US, but it went a long way already. Same border, same jurisdiction mostly.
- mongol 2y agoMy prediction: as European countries feel increasingly estranged from the US they will gravitate towards China. Some recent statements from Trump makes you wonder there is any friendliess remaining in the relationship. Perhaps better to play out US and China against each other, a little bit like Turkey acts visavi NATO on one hand and Russia on the other.
- netdevphoenix 2y agoI don't think so especially given its current geopolitical activities. Europe will likely work towards building a homegrown chip industry.
- probablybetter 2y agoThey are dodging a bubble and don't even know it. If America thinks it can base future prosperity on the AppStore and AI, it should think again, because actual innovations are needed, and this low-hanging-fruit tech-bro-fantasy investment cakewalk will not provide anything but pain upon the inevitable comedown and disillusionment. You will not be able to sell products nor services with the term AI anywhere near them in the very near future. (already the case amongst a certain percentage of us)
- StefanBatory 2y agoAs a Pole I find it sad but I'm not surprised at all over this decision.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- surgical_fire 2y agoA good reminder for EU to reduce their reliance on the US, and look for other business partners.
- nxm 2y agosuch as?
- tommiegannert 2y agoUsing ASML for leverage.
- surgical_fire 2y agoThere's a whole world, full of people beyond US borders. Many of those countries have great agricultural potential, many have excellent industrial production, many have an educated population, many have emerging markets, those are great to find new consumers. In fact, there's a huge opportunity to basically everyone if the new US president goes all the way in his isolationist and confrontational ideas. Something I am kind of hoping for, I won't pretend otherwise.
- meiraleal 2y agoThe Mercosur-EU Trade Agreement is a good start.
- Gravityloss 2y agoThere's server industry in Poland too. Ie many servers provided by big mainstream vendors, located now in data centers around the world, were actually assembled in Poland.
- skirge 2y agoDell factory in Łódź (Lodz) for example
- netdevphoenix 2y agoWhy has the US AI factsheet disappear from: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/13/fact-sheet-ensuring-u-s-security-and-economic-strength-in-the-age-of-artificial-intelligence/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
- jurmous 2y agoSomething about the event of yesterday after which the whole site was replaced.
- netdevphoenix 2y agoIs that a normal thing? Does the whole site gets replaced after a new president starts serving?
- jurmous 2y agoYes, see wiki about the website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse.gov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehouse.gov This was after Biden's transition: https://www.npr.org/sections/president-biden-takes-office/2021/01/21/959023409/revamped-white-house-website-aims-for-inclusivity-and-accessibility https://www.npr.org/sections/president-biden-takes-office/20...
- mainecoder 2y agohere you go:https://archive.is/9QwJ0 https://archive.is/9QwJ0
- DataDaemon 2y agoGerman doesn't like USA = tier 1 Poland where 90% people support USA no matter what = tier 2 Seems legit.
- skirge 2y ago[flagged]
- DataDaemon 2y agoPoland dream is to be 53rd state, just after Canada and Greenland.
- Havoc 2y agoDoes seem strange given that Poland is probably stepping up more than anyone else on Defence. Ie exactly what us wanted
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ryao 2y agoThe AI block was cancelled: https://www.barrons.com/articles/nvidia-stock-trump-revokes-ai-order-43a8e7ac https://www.barrons.com/articles/nvidia-stock-trump-revokes-... I have no idea why the original article was even published.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoI'm sure Poland is going to be fuming a lot more about Trump's plans for NATO, Ukraine and tariffs than Biden's AI block.
- UberMouse 2y agoThat is talking about the 2023 Executive Order about training AI. Not the recent one about chip exports.
- Artoooooor 2y agoThis shows trustworthiness of USA.