4 ms·

LOL NO: https://nypost.com/2025/01/20/us-news/adl-says-elon-musks-awkward-gesture-at-trump-inauguration-was-not-a-nazi-salute/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/20/us-

LOL NO: https://nypost.com/2025/01/20/us-news/adl-says-elon-musks-awkward-gesture-at-trump-inauguration-was-not-a-nazi-salute/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/20/us-news/adl-says-elon-musks-aw...

arcticbull 2y ago
It's going to be really interesting to see how organizations, relying on funding and/or support from the government, will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight hoping to avoid retaliation in general. I'm not sure what Elon was doing/intending to do but the resemblance is uncanny. And he did it twice, just to make sure. The first time, I was like eh, could go either way, he's made unique and enthusiastic gestures in public before before. The second one was more troubling. Certainly the kind of thing that would get you tackled to the floor by German police officers. Even if unintentional, you'd have some time to think about it and some 'splaining to do.
- kzrdude 2y ago
  Elon musk did a sign that shows that he's a Nazi. There's no ambiguity, he did the sign the neo-nazis do and it's instantly recognizable. That's my reading of the situation, with my education and background (I grew up & went to school in Sweden) - I mention the background to say that this is how the sign is interpreted where I come from.
  - dathinab 2y ago
    it's interpreted everywhere that way(1) except if fascists are asked to take responsibility for their action which is when it was somehow just a strange accident (1) through I would say it's interpreted as Nazi idolizing fascists in many situations which isn't quite exactly the same as Nazi but not necessary any better either
  - racktash 2y ago
    Even more revealing are the people offering excuses / brushing this and other things off – they are either naive (or have not been following Musk's comments about the AfD etc.) or knowingly acting in bad-faith. If there is one small positive about these political times, it's that we're finding out who the authoritarian / far-right sympathisers are.
- konart 2y ago
  I mean, technically, this is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute and it was used extensively during the history. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute for example. Not to mention that your average dabbing looks like a seig heil while snizzing.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - timeon 2y ago
    From your link: "The Roman salute, also known as the Fascist salute," Also from the link: "However, no Roman text describes such a gesture, and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern so-called "Roman" salute." But relevant questions are: Is that salute normalized now? Is the era between WW2 and present going to end?
    - konart 2y ago
      >"The Roman salute, also known as the Fascist salute," Yes, post-WWII "thanks" to fascists. As I've said in a different comment: I'm not saying this is somehow "ok" now or that Musk didn't do what he did. My point is that people see one's stupidity and immaturity as something bigger than it actually is.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    > was used extensively during the history As a symbol of fascism. > average dabbing looks like a seig heil while snizzing No one being serious would ever confuse the two.
    - konart 2y ago
      >As a symbol of fascism. Post WWII? Sure. Pre-WWII? No.
  - mtmail 2y ago
    > I mean, technically, this is ... That's kind of the "will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight" OP is talking about.
- gadders 2y ago
  Haha. That's you characterisation of the ADL? Pretty sure their funding comes from donors rather than the government.
  - arcticbull 2y ago
    I looked it up because I was curious. They are a politically active organization funded by individuals, corporations, donor-advised funds and foundations. Being a politically-engaged non-profit they do not disclose who their donors are. There's always risk of conflict between ideology and figuring out who's going to pay you to keep promoting it.
    - gadders 2y ago
      So I was correct then.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- notahacker 2y ago
  The "hey, maybe he's just a bit overexcited and socially awkward with his gestures" excuse would also be a lot more plausible if it was about someone who hasn't spent the last couple of years giving written and verbal encouragement to the far right, who happened to be exactly the sort of person who would see a Nazi salute as a super clever gesture that owns the libs, is deniable to the parts of his fanbase that don't like Nazis, and meets with uproarious approval with the parts of his fanbase that like Nazis. A bit like when he was tweeting out his approval of interviews describing the holocaust as "humane" and then promptly deleting when called out on it or retweeting neo-Nazis talking about Jews' "dialectical hatred against whites" as "the actual truth" but then apologising for it. Sure, mentally he probably has more in common with a 13 year old carving swastikas into their school desk because it's edgy than Himmler, and his far right admirers hate his H1-B visa stance to the point he seems to be really overcompensating, but that doesn't mean we should act like it's a normal way for an adult with the ear of the president to be behaving.
  - vanderZwan 2y ago
    > who hasn't spent the last couple of years giving written and verbal encouragement to the far right Even this is underselling his actions. He's retweeted accounts of people who are openly neo-nazis, unbanned neo-nazis, tweeted many known nazi dogwhistles himself, and recently visited the German as-close-to-openly-neonazi-as-you-can-legally-be-in-Germany party.
gazchop 2y ago
That's literally unambiguously a nazi salute. I've seen them before, from actual nazis. Because I am descended from one unfortunately. It's shameful and at no point does any word play and excuse making around it make it ok. This needs to stop now. Right now. Add to that the literal support for the far right parties definitely and conclusively aligned with nazi ideology, such as the AfD, it's terrible for everyone.
- gadders 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - gazchop 2y ago
    If it's the ADL, they don't speak for everyone and they do not speak for me. I'm literally German descended, living in the UK with little to no shit given about Trump whatsoever at all. This is Musk. What I do have a problem with is my friends and my families having a history going back nearly 100 years of misery, death and loss from the ideological constructs he's pushing for the last few years. You can be a statesman and show respect, honour and decorum or you can be like that. There is no place in our political landscape anywhere for this. So quite frankly stop gaslighting. You need to understand that despite what people believe in the US, Europe is ideologically different and has a longer memory. There are literally reminders everywhere around us every day of last time.
    - gadders 2y ago
      I'm British. My grandparents were probably bombed by yours. I'll admit he's not one for showing decorum. I don't see any ideological constructs pushed by Elon that are remotely similar to those pushed by the Nazi party.
      - threeseed 2y ago
        Musk has: a) routinely demonised immigrants. b) espoused the Great Replacement Theory. c) endorsed a tweet saying that black people have inherently lower IQ. d) perpetuated lies about companies prioritising diversity over safety. There are hundreds of examples I could list. But suffice to say his ideologies have a significant overlap with the Nazi ideology. And the recent salutes should give you no delusion about what his inspiration is.
MildlySerious 2y ago
Trump's entire campaign ran on curbing immigration, closing the borders and deportation of illegal immigrants. The one exception to that (the H-1B story) caused a lot of upheaval in his base. Among the many crazy things he said were things like people having to go out and vote for the last time, that he will be a dictator for a day, and calling his political opponents vermin. I'll just mention Project 2025 and his former wife mentioning that he's had a book of Hitler speeches by his bedside in passing. Among the first acts on his first day as president he shuts down an app that helped people immigrate legally. The first swath of Biden era executive orders rescinded[1] includes migration related ones to now loosen and reduce oversight and enable more heavy handed treatment of the matter, creating the foundation to conduct the type of raids that started happening the second he was certified[2]. Then at his inauguration this unfortunate little mishap occurs. Twice, mind you. By a man who continually promotes and enables alt-right ideology. If you squint really, really hard, it's a dog whistle. That's the best case scenario. For everyone else, Elon Musk unambiguously performed a Nazi salute. The absence of this moment from alt-right safe spaces like r/conservative and the X/Twitter feeds of prominent influencers despite the fact that their user base seems to have loved it is, in itself, a story worth telling. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/initial-rescissions-of-harmful-executive-orders-and-actions/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/init... [2] https://calmatters.org/economy/2025/01/kern-county-immigration-sweep/ https://calmatters.org/economy/2025/01/kern-county-immigrati...
- dathinab 2y ago
  fun fact: > deportation of illegal immigrants Initially Hitler Germany also, at least to the outside, pushed a position of them just wanting to "deport" Jews outside of Germany. They then decided to instead place them into forced labor camps to extract value out of them while slowly working them to death and later (but not much later) they also started with the industrialized mass killing in death camps. Similar before murdering Jews they started with going after disabled people and then queer people as this was part of their idea of healing (i.e purging) Germany. Not saying the US will treat immigrants like Nazi Germany did treat Jews, that would be dump. But given how they have a profit orientated prison system which more or less forced people to extremely underplayed work and how being an illegal immigrant is a crime and given how some US companies are looking for replacing "cheap labor" from China with something else more under their control I would still be worried.
dathinab 2y ago
okay lets see hand placement is that of the Hitler salute arm placement is that of the Hitler salute high of the hand is that of the Hitler salute placement of hand before doing the salute is that of the Hitler salute even his speech before indicates it's a Hitler salute: "This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead" Now this part needs a bit more explanation: The Hitler salute proper name is "Sieg Heil" which yes meas to "Hail!" someone. But it also literally translated means "victory heal". The meaning here was to "heal" Germany (which include taking over territories in the twisted interpretation of Nazis) but also to "heal" Germany (from Jews, queer people, disabled people etc. by killing them. It also was all about creating a unified fascist Germany under Hitler. It was also about projecting power and that it's a new Germany. I.e. "new beginning/new Germany", "heal", "unify", "let's make it grate again" (to use modern lingo) where the core aspects of "Sieg Heil" just with very perfidy interpretations of heal and unify. But then taking otherwise well meaning symbolism (e.g. the swastika) and then appropriating it and turning it into something evil was the standard mode of operation of Nazis. So he makes a Hitler salute after saying things which Hitler (in slightly different words due to language changing over time) would have said (before going full maks off let's kill all yews). I rally don't know how anyone could interpret it as not being a nazi salute, that would be supper naive/self blinding/foolish. Now the more interesting interpretation is does it mean he is a Nazi? Well probably no. Nazi is a very specific term, and there are many other kinds of fascism which aren't Nazis (which to be clear "different" doesn't contain a judgement. It neither implies "better" nor "worse"). Through what it is is a very clear statement of "I'm a fascist" and/or "I idolizes at least some aspects of Nazi Germany". Which, let's be honest, shouldn't surprise anyone who followed what he was doing in roughly the last year.

LOL NO: https://nypost.com/2025/01/20/us-news/adl-says-elon-musks-awkward-gesture-at-trump-inauguration-was-not-a-nazi-salute/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/20/us-news/adl-says-elon-musks-aw...

arcticbull 2y ago

It's going to be really interesting to see how organizations, relying on funding and/or support from the government, will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight hoping to avoid retaliation in general. I'm not sure what Elon was doing/intending to do but the resemblance is uncanny. And he did it twice, just to make sure. The first time, I was like eh, could go either way, he's made unique and enthusiastic gestures in public before before. The second one was more troubling. Certainly the kind of thing that would get you tackled to the floor by German police officers. Even if unintentional, you'd have some time to think about it and some 'splaining to do.

kzrdude 2y ago
Elon musk did a sign that shows that he's a Nazi. There's no ambiguity, he did the sign the neo-nazis do and it's instantly recognizable. That's my reading of the situation, with my education and background (I grew up & went to school in Sweden) - I mention the background to say that this is how the sign is interpreted where I come from.
- dathinab 2y ago
  it's interpreted everywhere that way(1) except if fascists are asked to take responsibility for their action which is when it was somehow just a strange accident (1) through I would say it's interpreted as Nazi idolizing fascists in many situations which isn't quite exactly the same as Nazi but not necessary any better either
- racktash 2y ago
  Even more revealing are the people offering excuses / brushing this and other things off – they are either naive (or have not been following Musk's comments about the AfD etc.) or knowingly acting in bad-faith. If there is one small positive about these political times, it's that we're finding out who the authoritarian / far-right sympathisers are.
konart 2y ago
I mean, technically, this is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute and it was used extensively during the history. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute for example. Not to mention that your average dabbing looks like a seig heil while snizzing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- timeon 2y ago
  From your link: "The Roman salute, also known as the Fascist salute," Also from the link: "However, no Roman text describes such a gesture, and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern so-called "Roman" salute." But relevant questions are: Is that salute normalized now? Is the era between WW2 and present going to end?
  - konart 2y ago
    >"The Roman salute, also known as the Fascist salute," Yes, post-WWII "thanks" to fascists. As I've said in a different comment: I'm not saying this is somehow "ok" now or that Musk didn't do what he did. My point is that people see one's stupidity and immaturity as something bigger than it actually is.
- threeseed 2y ago
  > was used extensively during the history As a symbol of fascism. > average dabbing looks like a seig heil while snizzing No one being serious would ever confuse the two.
  - konart 2y ago
    >As a symbol of fascism. Post WWII? Sure. Pre-WWII? No.
- mtmail 2y ago
  > I mean, technically, this is ... That's kind of the "will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight" OP is talking about.
gadders 2y ago
Haha. That's you characterisation of the ADL? Pretty sure their funding comes from donors rather than the government.
- arcticbull 2y ago
  I looked it up because I was curious. They are a politically active organization funded by individuals, corporations, donor-advised funds and foundations. Being a politically-engaged non-profit they do not disclose who their donors are. There's always risk of conflict between ideology and figuring out who's going to pay you to keep promoting it.
  - gadders 2y ago
    So I was correct then.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
notahacker 2y ago
The "hey, maybe he's just a bit overexcited and socially awkward with his gestures" excuse would also be a lot more plausible if it was about someone who hasn't spent the last couple of years giving written and verbal encouragement to the far right, who happened to be exactly the sort of person who would see a Nazi salute as a super clever gesture that owns the libs, is deniable to the parts of his fanbase that don't like Nazis, and meets with uproarious approval with the parts of his fanbase that like Nazis. A bit like when he was tweeting out his approval of interviews describing the holocaust as "humane" and then promptly deleting when called out on it or retweeting neo-Nazis talking about Jews' "dialectical hatred against whites" as "the actual truth" but then apologising for it. Sure, mentally he probably has more in common with a 13 year old carving swastikas into their school desk because it's edgy than Himmler, and his far right admirers hate his H1-B visa stance to the point he seems to be really overcompensating, but that doesn't mean we should act like it's a normal way for an adult with the ear of the president to be behaving.
- vanderZwan 2y ago
  > who hasn't spent the last couple of years giving written and verbal encouragement to the far right Even this is underselling his actions. He's retweeted accounts of people who are openly neo-nazis, unbanned neo-nazis, tweeted many known nazi dogwhistles himself, and recently visited the German as-close-to-openly-neonazi-as-you-can-legally-be-in-Germany party.

gazchop 2y ago

That's literally unambiguously a nazi salute. I've seen them before, from actual nazis. Because I am descended from one unfortunately. It's shameful and at no point does any word play and excuse making around it make it ok. This needs to stop now. Right now. Add to that the literal support for the far right parties definitely and conclusively aligned with nazi ideology, such as the AfD, it's terrible for everyone.

gadders 2y ago
[flagged]
- gazchop 2y ago
  If it's the ADL, they don't speak for everyone and they do not speak for me. I'm literally German descended, living in the UK with little to no shit given about Trump whatsoever at all. This is Musk. What I do have a problem with is my friends and my families having a history going back nearly 100 years of misery, death and loss from the ideological constructs he's pushing for the last few years. You can be a statesman and show respect, honour and decorum or you can be like that. There is no place in our political landscape anywhere for this. So quite frankly stop gaslighting. You need to understand that despite what people believe in the US, Europe is ideologically different and has a longer memory. There are literally reminders everywhere around us every day of last time.
  - gadders 2y ago
    I'm British. My grandparents were probably bombed by yours. I'll admit he's not one for showing decorum. I don't see any ideological constructs pushed by Elon that are remotely similar to those pushed by the Nazi party.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      Musk has: a) routinely demonised immigrants. b) espoused the Great Replacement Theory. c) endorsed a tweet saying that black people have inherently lower IQ. d) perpetuated lies about companies prioritising diversity over safety. There are hundreds of examples I could list. But suffice to say his ideologies have a significant overlap with the Nazi ideology. And the recent salutes should give you no delusion about what his inspiration is.

MildlySerious 2y ago

Trump's entire campaign ran on curbing immigration, closing the borders and deportation of illegal immigrants. The one exception to that (the H-1B story) caused a lot of upheaval in his base. Among the many crazy things he said were things like people having to go out and vote for the last time, that he will be a dictator for a day, and calling his political opponents vermin. I'll just mention Project 2025 and his former wife mentioning that he's had a book of Hitler speeches by his bedside in passing. Among the first acts on his first day as president he shuts down an app that helped people immigrate legally. The first swath of Biden era executive orders rescinded[1] includes migration related ones to now loosen and reduce oversight and enable more heavy handed treatment of the matter, creating the foundation to conduct the type of raids that started happening the second he was certified[2]. Then at his inauguration this unfortunate little mishap occurs. Twice, mind you. By a man who continually promotes and enables alt-right ideology. If you squint really, really hard, it's a dog whistle. That's the best case scenario. For everyone else, Elon Musk unambiguously performed a Nazi salute. The absence of this moment from alt-right safe spaces like r/conservative and the X/Twitter feeds of prominent influencers despite the fact that their user base seems to have loved it is, in itself, a story worth telling. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/initial-rescissions-of-harmful-executive-orders-and-actions/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/init... [2] https://calmatters.org/economy/2025/01/kern-county-immigration-sweep/ https://calmatters.org/economy/2025/01/kern-county-immigrati...

dathinab 2y ago
fun fact: > deportation of illegal immigrants Initially Hitler Germany also, at least to the outside, pushed a position of them just wanting to "deport" Jews outside of Germany. They then decided to instead place them into forced labor camps to extract value out of them while slowly working them to death and later (but not much later) they also started with the industrialized mass killing in death camps. Similar before murdering Jews they started with going after disabled people and then queer people as this was part of their idea of healing (i.e purging) Germany. Not saying the US will treat immigrants like Nazi Germany did treat Jews, that would be dump. But given how they have a profit orientated prison system which more or less forced people to extremely underplayed work and how being an illegal immigrant is a crime and given how some US companies are looking for replacing "cheap labor" from China with something else more under their control I would still be worried.

dathinab 2y ago

okay lets see hand placement is that of the Hitler salute arm placement is that of the Hitler salute high of the hand is that of the Hitler salute placement of hand before doing the salute is that of the Hitler salute even his speech before indicates it's a Hitler salute: "This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead" Now this part needs a bit more explanation: The Hitler salute proper name is "Sieg Heil" which yes meas to "Hail!" someone. But it also literally translated means "victory heal". The meaning here was to "heal" Germany (which include taking over territories in the twisted interpretation of Nazis) but also to "heal" Germany (from Jews, queer people, disabled people etc. by killing them. It also was all about creating a unified fascist Germany under Hitler. It was also about projecting power and that it's a new Germany. I.e. "new beginning/new Germany", "heal", "unify", "let's make it grate again" (to use modern lingo) where the core aspects of "Sieg Heil" just with very perfidy interpretations of heal and unify. But then taking otherwise well meaning symbolism (e.g. the swastika) and then appropriating it and turning it into something evil was the standard mode of operation of Nazis. So he makes a Hitler salute after saying things which Hitler (in slightly different words due to language changing over time) would have said (before going full maks off let's kill all yews). I rally don't know how anyone could interpret it as not being a nazi salute, that would be supper naive/self blinding/foolish. Now the more interesting interpretation is does it mean he is a Nazi? Well probably no. Nazi is a very specific term, and there are many other kinds of fascism which aren't Nazis (which to be clear "different" doesn't contain a judgement. It neither implies "better" nor "worse"). Through what it is is a very clear statement of "I'm a fascist" and/or "I idolizes at least some aspects of Nazi Germany". Which, let's be honest, shouldn't surprise anyone who followed what he was doing in roughly the last year.