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Ask HN: How are you preparing for PEPPOL?
Couldn't find any previous discussions on PEPPOL on HN. If you're unfamiliar with it, it is an electronic invoicing network, which the EU is starting to force on businesses. All business-to-business invoices in Belgium will have to be sent over PEPPOL as of next year [1]. Gone will be the days of emailing PDFs.
This obviously impacts every business which deals with other businesses. Access to the PEPPOL network is not free. Direct access is nearly impossible (it is expensive and requires technical audits). A variety of third parties are popping up to mediate access. They all seem complex and expensive. Not only will you have to use the network to send your invoices, you will also have to receive them somehow. If you're a small business, this could get pretty complicated pretty quickly.
I'm assuming we have some EU business owners/freelancers/entrepreneurs on HN. How are you preparing for this (apparently inevitable) future of PEPPOL?
[1] https://finance.belgium.be/en/enterprises/vat/e-invoicing/mandatory-use-structured-electronic-invoices-2026 https://finance.belgium.be/en/enterprises/vat/e-invoicing/ma...
- BoredPositron 2y agoIt’s really not that complicated or expensive. Broken down for most people it’s gonna work just like email. What’s your grievance besides the general stuff in your post?
- elric 2y agoIt seems pretty complicated to me, but maybe you can point out some resources that make it easy? My current invoicing system is a simple tool that generates PDFs. I send those to my customers by email (and rarely an angry reminder by post), and I get paid. Good stuff. My suppliers similarly send me PDFs by mail, and some of them send me paper invoices by post. All very simple. I pay them every month, and once every quarter I send those on to my accountant so he can do his thing. All this sending and receiving has been free so far. But with PEPPOL, I'll suddenly need some third party tool with some kind of paid subscription, to continue to do what I had been doing for free before.
- descala 2y agoThis one https://www.b2brouter.net/global/prices/ https://www.b2brouter.net/global/prices/ allows free sending, but it does not offer reception.
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- itake 2y agoAnother poster says its $2k/yr membership fee + auditing to submit invoices in their system. Even if you "share" a certificate with others, this seems like an unwanted income tax for freelancers or businesses. 1,800 euro annual fee for freelancers: https://peppol.org/join/fees/ https://peppol.org/join/fees/
- dpnmn 2y agoThat's something else, thats for directly connecting to Peppol, which few business will do (mostly very large businesses, or financial companies). Most businesses will use a accounting system anyway, and most of those will support Peppol out-of-the-box. So instead (or in addition) to sending an e-mail, the invoice will be sent directly into their accounting system (and their bank, if they choose). Really, it simplifies things a lot! No more punching/copying of stuff from PDFs into your online bank. The cost is not really high, just a bit annoying (typically some euros a month + a few euros pr invoice). (I probably could have found a cheaper provider but I don't send many invoices so it is ok).
- itake 2y agoSending an email is free. Paying for accounting software (sharing the license) is not free. Can you share what the cost is? This [0] provider says each invoice costs $10-30. NET14 means you'd pay $260 - $780/yr! https://www.valtatech.com/thought-leadership/einvoicing/how-much-does-a-peppol-einvoice-cost/ https://www.valtatech.com/thought-leadership/einvoicing/how-...
- tene80i 2y agoWhat’s your reference for the EU forcing this on businesses? The link you provided is only about Belgium.
- elric 2y agoAs far as I see it, Belgium is the first to mandate it, and the rest of the EU will follow soon after. The European Commission is big on e-invoicing. https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/DIGITAL/eInvoicing https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/D...
- Hamuko 2y agoDon't know how it relates to PEPPOL, but Finland is pretty much all in on e-invoicing and has been for years. As a consumer, I get e-invoices from my building management, insurance company, the tax administration, my credit card company, my phone operator, my electricity company and even the place I order domestic domains from. It's really nice though. I can set invoices to be paid automatically when they're under n€ and don't have to do anything to keep up with all of my payments.
- MrDresden 2y agoSimilar experience in Iceland. Having moved over to the continent last year though, I am now having to deal with an enormous flood of paper. Frankly if you are a business, having to pay a per year fee plus extra per invoice just so it all can be standardised and reduce the paper flood shouldn't be an issue, as long as the fees are not too great.
- riffraff 2y agoItaly switched to electronic invoicing a few years back. People complained for a while but it turned out to be quite painless in the end.
- worthless-trash 2y agoHow did it compare to the PEPPOL costs and implementation requirements ?
- B1zz3y_ 2y agoI can shed some light on this topic. Since I own a SaaS which is focused on freelancers & SME's. The EU is becoming very regulated when it comes to sending / receiving invoices. Basic invoicing tools that offer PDF are not sufficient anymore. You could say I'll run my own peppol access point but the economics of doing so for a single person doesn't make sense. You're looking at a basic yearly fee of 2000 euros just for the peppol membership and on top of that you need to get certified by third parties looking at another couple of thousands euros just to be able to send and receive some invoices. My best advice is to search for an affordable tool that takes away this complexity away for you. I know that previously you could send for free, but that's going to end if you like it or not. I run my SaaS at https://www.bizzey.com https://www.bizzey.com which is a business tool that you can fully customize and peppol sending and receiving is supported (it's also completely "free" in a sense that you just pay the subscription and nothing on top)
- Lionga 2y agoRomania has a similar system for some time. The over regulation in EU is bad, but still better then a grifter president, that uses a shit coin to scam the people.
- rozenmd 2y agoThere's a Stripe app in their marketplace for sending invoices over PEPPOL, I'm sure it'll become a feature once it's mandatory in enough places. Here in France there's a similar system, I just require a certain tier to accept payments through it.
- erwinmatijsen 2y agoI’m using bookkeeping software that has already integrated it. It’s just a switch to turn sending invoices via peppol. It’s no extra charge on my paid plan. I’m assuming all bookkeeping software will integrate it, just as all suppliers are able to send PDF invoices. For the ones sending invoices manually, like OP, maybe software with free tiers will pop up. Just like many suppliers have free tiers for sending PDF invoices.
- Nica25 2y agoI’m using an intermediary saas platform that has a free plan. I don’t like being forced to use an external provider, just for being able to send invoices, but at least it’s not costing me any money (yet).
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- Semaphor 2y agoIt doesn’t seem to be EU-mandated? Only Italy and Belgium have it mandatory, according to [0], in other countries it’s only relevant for B2G. Outside that Wikipedia entry, I have also heard nothing about it becoming required in Germany (we are mainly B2C, but do some B2B and B2G), here we are instead moving forward with X-Rechnung/ZUGFeRD/Factur-X, which is an XML standard that can also be embedded in PDFs, and doesn’t require certification or anything. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPPOL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPPOL
- jve 2y agoLatvia: As of this year it is required in B2G transactions. Next year, mandatory for B2B
- Toutouxc 2y agoAnd what are the official guidelines? Are you just supposed to find a 3rd party provider and pay whatever they ask? That’s kinda shitty if you ask me.
- cuu508 2y agoIn Latvia, there's a requirement to prepare invoices in PEPPOL xml format (B2G from 2025, B2B from 2026), but no requirenent to send them over PEPPOL network.
- Semaphor 2y agoAnd if I check here [0] > The new required fields were added as part of the harmonisation between Peppol BIS Billing and the XRechnung standard. Peppol BIS Billing is the equivalent of XRechnung for sending e-invoices via Peppol. By harmonising the XRechnung standard and incorporating it into the Peppol “National Ruleset”, the two formats (XRechnung and Peppol BIS Billing) are now almost fully equivalent. It seems that this ends up the same way and compatible with the solution in Germany and France, and doesn’t have any of the issues OP describes. [0]: https://en.e-rechnung-bund.de/new-version-xrechnung-standard-3-0-1-available/ https://en.e-rechnung-bund.de/new-version-xrechnung-standard...
- merb 2y agoIn Germany peppol will not be mandatory for a very very long time. Most people still sending invoices via mail, even in b2b. Only in 2027 will make electronic invoices (xml format) mandatory, it will probably another 2-5 years until peppol will be necessary.
- jve 2y agoOur local accounting app just supports it. And as I understand participating to PEPPOL network is not mandatory - you can still send those electronic invoices via email as far as I understand. But yeah, your accounting software better support PEPPOL.
- jtthe13 2y agoDefinitely going to be a smart follower on this one. My accountant pretty much convinced me to let others experiment if they want, on our end we have a peppol compatible system, so we'll enable the feature a few days before it becomes mandatory.
- magicalhippo 2y agoWe make a niche B2B software which has an invoicing module and we've had to add EHF[1] support, which is the Norwegian implementation of electronic invoices delivered through PEPPOL. The gov't in Norway has mandated use of EHF for billing the gov't for about a decade now, which really drove adoption. Our customers has to have an agreement with one of the access points[3], so the cost of sending the EHF goes directly to the customer. Adding support wasn't terribly hard, but it wasn't trivial either. The XML is fairly straight forward, but when you submit one the access point doesn't just do a schema verification, it also verifies that intermediate values are calculated and rounded correctly for example. [1]: https://anskaffelser.dev/postaward/g3/spec/current/billing-3.0/norway/ https://anskaffelser.dev/postaward/g3/spec/current/billing-3... [2]: https://peppol.org/learn-more/country-profiles/norway/ https://peppol.org/learn-more/country-profiles/norway/ [3]: https://anskaffelser.no/verktoy/veiledere/aksesspunkter-ehf-og-bis-formater https://anskaffelser.no/verktoy/veiledere/aksesspunkter-ehf-...
- Dalewyn 2y ago>All business-to-business invoices in Belgium will have to be sent over PEPPOL as of next year [1]. Gone will be the days of emailing PDFs. >Access to the PEPPOL network is not free. Direct access is nearly impossible (it is expensive and requires technical audits). A variety of third parties are popping up to mediate access. They all seem complex and expensive. So what you're saying is that a certain group of companies ("third parties") successfully lobbied your government(s) to mandate an artificial monopoly on a practical necessity for ostensibly honorable and convenient reasons, and everyone will pay up for this divine virtue. I'm sorry if this comes off as dismissive, but as an American who deals in this sort of officework as part of $dayjob you guys need to vote in better politicians.
- Hamuko 2y ago>I'm sorry if this comes off as dismissive, but as an American who deals in this sort of officework as part of $dayjob you guys need to vote in better politicians. Wanna tell me how you file taxes?
- Dalewyn 2y agoMy personal taxes? I just fill out the federal and state forms and mail them in, though I'm thinking of hiring a CPA to do it for me starting this year since some things might get more complicated than I care for. We'll see, I guess. The company? A CPA does it as far as I know, but filing everything ourselves is certainly an option.
- Hamuko 2y agoAre these forms pre-filled where just sending it in without any revisions is an option if you're a basic salaried employee without any special deductibles?
- miki123211 2y ago> So what you're saying is that a certain group of companies ("third parties") successfully lobbied your government(s) to mandate an artificial monopoly on a practical necessity for ostensibly honorable and convenient reasons, and everyone will pay up for this divine virtue. I'm sure that direct (as in having your own AS number, IP blocks and peering arrangements) access to the internet is even more expensive, not to mention things like your own electricity or your own cellphone network. Somehow, people aren't complaining that your average bootstrapped SaaS can't become its own ISP. As long as any reasonably-sized company can become a provider, and as long as the government isn't demanding something outrageous, like the provider having to pay an 'interchange fee' for every invoice send through the network, economies of scale will come in and drive costs down.
- jesterson 2y agoWow, didn't know that. Seems like crooks in Brussels are trying to impoverish europeans further up, while latter are already taxed to the brink. Additional revenue for access plus data who paid who for what, perfect set up for communist EU. As european living outside of that happy garden, eeally hope it will collapse soon and countries in it will gain real independence.
- thrw999 2y agoNot sure why this post received down votes. Spinelli, whose manifesto is accepted by EU as its own was Italian communist. EU parliament building in Brussels is named after him. I'd suggest reading Spinelli's manifesto, where among other 'ideas' he calls for reduction of private property and elimination of anybody who would oppose his movement. Very interesting read.
- jesterson 2y ago> Not sure why this post received down votes I didn't expect much from my fellow europeans, brainwashed by brussels propaganda from every corner. They succumb to communist policies while are being robbed outright, and whats most disgusting, they contemplate and support it voluntarily. > I'd suggest reading Spinelli's manifesto, thank you - quite a read indeed. I can just contribute to your suggestion by adding Unabomber manifesto as it is relatable to what happen in EU as well.
- sebmellen 2y agoThis thread is already the 2nd most popular search result for “PEPPOL” which surprised me. There isn’t much else out there on this topic. How are non tech enabled businesses planning to comply with this order?
- benterix 2y agoI just like many others use a digital invoicing system I subscribe to. It's very cheap, just a few euro a month. They already introduced Peppol support so it's not an issue really. Any invoicing system that doesn't offer integration with Peppol would go out of business (basically useful only for VAT-exempt subjects which is a tiny fraction of the market).
- yread 2y agoThis seems to be a good, updated resource that's not trying to sell you anything and has a decent number of links. In Dutch tho: https://www.softwarepakketten.nl/bericht/7925&bronw=1/Factsheets_over_status_e_Facturering_per_EU_lidstaat_inclusief_VAT_BTW_in_the_Digital_Age_ViDA.htm https://www.softwarepakketten.nl/bericht/7925&bronw=1/Factsh...
- aarroyoc 2y agoIn Spain it is mandatory since this year. There's a free Java app by the government, FACTURAe, that is capable of generating the digital invoices and it's not that complicated to use. Electronic invoices have been mandatory for public administrations for 10 years already.
- riffraff 2y agoeh, the mobile app for this by the italian tax agency is called FatturAE. The opposite casing is just funny to me.
- slau 2y agoI’m using VISMA e-conomic to do my bookkeeping/invoicing. They launched an eInvoice system some time ago which I would expect was PEPPOL based, or something similar. They enabled it by default without informing anyone. A couple of my clients didn’t see the invoice in my monthly email, so they asked me to resend it. I re-sent the PDF manually. To address OP’s question: I don’t expect it will change much for me. The customer configuration will let me choose whether the invoice is sent by email or another way, and I’ll still create my invoice by clicking “book and send” in e-conomic.
- imaximix 2y agoDeveloper working on Peppol Access Point here. We have this nifty description: Peppol is a global network that simplifies electronic document exchange, like invoices and purchase orders. It uses a standardized format to automate invoicing and procurement processes. The network operates on a four-corner model involving senders, service providers, and receivers, ensuring seamless communication. By partnering with a certified Peppol Access Point (some has been mentioned, e.g., Maventa is another), you can tap into this network with ease and broaden your global reach. It’s a valid solution when you can’t set resources aside for this. So, the options are: [1]: If you’re a software provider, partner with a Peppol-certified provider [2]: If you’re a business, you may already have access if using particular ERP or invoicing software. Ask them! At least Maventa offers global invoice access without extra charges. Integration and user registration are free; fees apply based on Peppol usage only. AMA
- svilen_dobrev 2y agoi have some experience with another such protocol, for customs , to/from EU. About 15 years ago, it was made mandatory (in Bulgaria). A friend of mine suggested we make a software for filling those forms, and handle the XML-message-passing-and-signing and FSMs and all-that, and sell it. Took me few months, did it, then got few clients.. which used it for about 2 years, with updates of rules once in a while, and then one day the government published a free pdf-like generator for those XMLs, and we had to close - regardless of other niceties, people needed mostly the forms, and the new free ones were good-enough - and kept updated.
- drchaim 2y agoI was thinking about how governments could, if they have invested in good and simple tech, being the API suppliers (free) and an interface (paid). They “should” know the rules, let me fill some boxes and the invoice is sent to the client and to the gov. The overloaded market of acc software disrupted by gov? Let me dream ;)
- AznHisoka 2y agoAre all invoices in this network public or only the ones you sent/receieved?