5 ms·

just do not use them. actually vote with your wallet.

by nicman23 2y ago

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
In theory this works, but when you have 4 banks in your country, and all 4 require this, you're basically fscked.
- nicman23 2y ago
  your bank requires drm? what.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    Not drm per-se I was commenting this (from above): > and I predict that in the near future it will be very difficult to use many apps (or even websites) while running on custom non-commercial builds of your operating system because "your" hardware will collude with the service provider to deny you access. Many banking apps (and other payment apps) won't work on phones with custom android builds, nor on phones with unlocked bootloaders, same for rooted phones. But yeah, in turn, unless you have a "dedicated banking phone", this will mean that people will stay with the official OS's with all the DRM features included. (or well.. as we in the balkans do, pirate stuff)
    - surajrmal 2y ago
      Do you think your bank is obligated to run its software on your arbitrary device? Why? If, for its own risk tolerance of fraud, it needs to ensure nothing has messed with its app, shouldn't they have the right to refuse? You've not paid anything for the app, it's simply a venue for a service they offer. I would not like to live in a world where I need to pay extra to ensure some folks want "freedom". Fraud indirectly is a tax on all of us. There should obviously be limits on what we put up with, but I'm not sold this limitation is where the line should be drawn
      - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        Well, the same as drm then... on a rooted device, you can run a screen recording app, that's why netflix might soon run only on attested devices. Tinder? What if you're faking your location, attested device only. etc. Want freedom, a rooted device, a device not made by samsung or apple? Well, fsck you and your freedoms, right? It's not like a phone is a general purpose computing device. Soon the same will happen to PCs... why should your bank run on linux, what if you've messed with the cookies? Microsoft windows OS, attested system, and you'll be banking in edge only. Just because some people like you support this.
        surajrmal 2y ago
        There are countries where you cannot own a gun legally. Many in those countries see the benefits of giving up the "freedom" to own a gun for the greater good. I understand your point, and also worry about a world I cannot use my Linux desktop to do things I can on my phone. I'm optimistic Linux distros will manage to solve these problems if they arise. Tighter integration with hardware vrnfi
      - nicman23 2y ago
        your whole take is just ignorant. yes i expect the bank to have to run on any client as the client should not be trusted.
ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
But that doesn't really work because "wallet voting" is very different from democratic voting. As part of a small minority you can be very sure that your wallet votes will be firmly ignored whereas well-designed democratic systems will at least let you vote for someone to represent your opinion. Wallet voting works very badly for protecting those who are in the minority.
- LocalH 2y ago
  When you're a small enough minority politically speaking, your ballot votes will also effectively be ignored. I voted for a third-party candidate in a heavy red state, so my vote was purely symbolic, it had zero chance of having any effect.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    > I voted for a third-party candidate in a heavy red state Oh, yeah, US politics. You need to fix your electoral system. Democratic politics is not a "the largest party takes it all" system. It's a complex, nuanced system that protects different interests differently and full of methods for reasonable minorities to get what they want. AFAIK, you get some if this on your primaries. Well, when the primaries exist and the results aren't set by some behind-the-doors agreement.

just do not use them. actually vote with your wallet.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

In theory this works, but when you have 4 banks in your country, and all 4 require this, you're basically fscked.

nicman23 2y ago
your bank requires drm? what.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Not drm per-se I was commenting this (from above): > and I predict that in the near future it will be very difficult to use many apps (or even websites) while running on custom non-commercial builds of your operating system because "your" hardware will collude with the service provider to deny you access. Many banking apps (and other payment apps) won't work on phones with custom android builds, nor on phones with unlocked bootloaders, same for rooted phones. But yeah, in turn, unless you have a "dedicated banking phone", this will mean that people will stay with the official OS's with all the DRM features included. (or well.. as we in the balkans do, pirate stuff)
  - surajrmal 2y ago
    Do you think your bank is obligated to run its software on your arbitrary device? Why? If, for its own risk tolerance of fraud, it needs to ensure nothing has messed with its app, shouldn't they have the right to refuse? You've not paid anything for the app, it's simply a venue for a service they offer. I would not like to live in a world where I need to pay extra to ensure some folks want "freedom". Fraud indirectly is a tax on all of us. There should obviously be limits on what we put up with, but I'm not sold this limitation is where the line should be drawn
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      Well, the same as drm then... on a rooted device, you can run a screen recording app, that's why netflix might soon run only on attested devices. Tinder? What if you're faking your location, attested device only. etc. Want freedom, a rooted device, a device not made by samsung or apple? Well, fsck you and your freedoms, right? It's not like a phone is a general purpose computing device. Soon the same will happen to PCs... why should your bank run on linux, what if you've messed with the cookies? Microsoft windows OS, attested system, and you'll be banking in edge only. Just because some people like you support this.
      - surajrmal 2y ago
        There are countries where you cannot own a gun legally. Many in those countries see the benefits of giving up the "freedom" to own a gun for the greater good. I understand your point, and also worry about a world I cannot use my Linux desktop to do things I can on my phone. I'm optimistic Linux distros will manage to solve these problems if they arise. Tighter integration with hardware vrnfi
    - nicman23 2y ago
      your whole take is just ignorant. yes i expect the bank to have to run on any client as the client should not be trusted.

ulrikrasmussen 2y ago

But that doesn't really work because "wallet voting" is very different from democratic voting. As part of a small minority you can be very sure that your wallet votes will be firmly ignored whereas well-designed democratic systems will at least let you vote for someone to represent your opinion. Wallet voting works very badly for protecting those who are in the minority.

LocalH 2y ago
When you're a small enough minority politically speaking, your ballot votes will also effectively be ignored. I voted for a third-party candidate in a heavy red state, so my vote was purely symbolic, it had zero chance of having any effect.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > I voted for a third-party candidate in a heavy red state Oh, yeah, US politics. You need to fix your electoral system. Democratic politics is not a "the largest party takes it all" system. It's a complex, nuanced system that protects different interests differently and full of methods for reasonable minorities to get what they want. AFAIK, you get some if this on your primaries. Well, when the primaries exist and the results aren't set by some behind-the-doors agreement.