3 ms·

> Microsoft PC certification Why is that a thing to begin with? What happens if a PC doesn't have it? It's not like Windows would refuse to run on it.

globular-toast 2y ago
It's a thing because people want to control other people. This is what it all boils down to, sadly.
- xbmcuser 2y ago
  It's less about control and more about unhindered capitilism. Something a lot of people have blinders on about this is about capitilism and the world is fast moving towards a big fracture between the haves and have nots.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    It's both - i.e. control is means to an end, which is setting up the rules so that we are forced to live on their terms, which mostly boils down to paying them for the stuff they want us to pay. DRM is fundamentally an attempt to rewrite reality, or at least the computing aspects of it, in ways that are not possible to do with laws of physics in general. An idealized DRM setup establishes a faux reality, a virtual environment running on top of reality, in which bits have extra rules to it - codifying the weaker attempt of what IP regulations are doing to information in general, i.e. establishing a faux legal reality, in which bits carry colour, and with it restrictions and consequences. The worst part is, the forces that push us to this direction are shielded in plausible deniability and good intentions, as DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing, so the unhindered capitalism control freaks get to hide behind fear of cyber criminals, while secretly using tools of protection against us.
    - generic92034 2y ago
      > The worst part is, the forces that push us to this direction are shielded in plausible deniability and good intentions, as DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing, so the unhindered capitalism control freaks get to hide behind fear of cyber criminals, while secretly using tools of protection against us. Neither in politics nor in corporate announcements was there ever a shortage of "good reasons". People are creative when it is about power and/or money.
    - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
      > DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing Huh? They are the opposite - someone from another country can remotely control my phone/computer/car. Seems like a trojan
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        No, they're very much the same - only for the people pushing DRM, you are the threat actor in the secure system. This is direct in case of media companies; for banks, you may be a "valued customer", but your phone is considered a threat actor; their excuse is that your phone (or you) could be pwnd. And then, in general, service providers see potential competitors as threat actors, too. Security tech is, by its very nature, a tool of control. Whether that's good or bad for you, depends on who's in control.
  - lazide 2y ago
    Do you think the USSR and China (around the great leap forward time) were less controlling?
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      No? It's been pretty much a constant throughout history.
hun3 2y ago
idk, losing access to preinstalled OEM license?
bayindirh 2y ago
You can't officially sell the computer as "Windows Compatible", and won't be able to sell it with Windows preinstalled with an OEM license, which is basically (i.e. heavily discounted) free to you as the OEM. Plus, it doesn't protect you from Microsoft making Windows incompatible with your specific system "by accident" (See Dr.DOS incident), or sue you to oblivion by a very small clause in their licenses.
- like_any_other 2y ago
  Two can play at that game. If bundling Internet Explorer was found illegal, this should be too, and the US and EU can start fining MS billions until they stop these underhanded anti-competitive tactics.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    Well, just notice that this isn't "two playing that game". It's the government explicitly kicking the scammers out of the place and freeing the victims.
  - progval 2y ago
    The EU decided not to: > In September 2016, the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that "the sale of a computer equipped with pre-installed software does not in itself constitute an unfair commercial practice within the meaning of Directive 2005/29 when such an offer is not contrary to the requirements of professional diligence and does not distort the economic behaviour of [purchasers]." The Court also ruled that Directive 2005/29 does not require OEMs to include a separate price for an operating system license. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows

globular-toast 2y ago

It's a thing because people want to control other people. This is what it all boils down to, sadly.

xbmcuser 2y ago
It's less about control and more about unhindered capitilism. Something a lot of people have blinders on about this is about capitilism and the world is fast moving towards a big fracture between the haves and have nots.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  It's both - i.e. control is means to an end, which is setting up the rules so that we are forced to live on their terms, which mostly boils down to paying them for the stuff they want us to pay. DRM is fundamentally an attempt to rewrite reality, or at least the computing aspects of it, in ways that are not possible to do with laws of physics in general. An idealized DRM setup establishes a faux reality, a virtual environment running on top of reality, in which bits have extra rules to it - codifying the weaker attempt of what IP regulations are doing to information in general, i.e. establishing a faux legal reality, in which bits carry colour, and with it restrictions and consequences. The worst part is, the forces that push us to this direction are shielded in plausible deniability and good intentions, as DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing, so the unhindered capitalism control freaks get to hide behind fear of cyber criminals, while secretly using tools of protection against us.
  - generic92034 2y ago
    > The worst part is, the forces that push us to this direction are shielded in plausible deniability and good intentions, as DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing, so the unhindered capitalism control freaks get to hide behind fear of cyber criminals, while secretly using tools of protection against us. Neither in politics nor in corporate announcements was there ever a shortage of "good reasons". People are creative when it is about power and/or money.
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
    > DRM and cybersecurity are, in the limit, the same thing Huh? They are the opposite - someone from another country can remotely control my phone/computer/car. Seems like a trojan
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      No, they're very much the same - only for the people pushing DRM, you are the threat actor in the secure system. This is direct in case of media companies; for banks, you may be a "valued customer", but your phone is considered a threat actor; their excuse is that your phone (or you) could be pwnd. And then, in general, service providers see potential competitors as threat actors, too. Security tech is, by its very nature, a tool of control. Whether that's good or bad for you, depends on who's in control.
- lazide 2y ago
  Do you think the USSR and China (around the great leap forward time) were less controlling?
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    No? It's been pretty much a constant throughout history.

hun3 2y ago

idk, losing access to preinstalled OEM license?

bayindirh 2y ago

You can't officially sell the computer as "Windows Compatible", and won't be able to sell it with Windows preinstalled with an OEM license, which is basically (i.e. heavily discounted) free to you as the OEM. Plus, it doesn't protect you from Microsoft making Windows incompatible with your specific system "by accident" (See Dr.DOS incident), or sue you to oblivion by a very small clause in their licenses.

like_any_other 2y ago
Two can play at that game. If bundling Internet Explorer was found illegal, this should be too, and the US and EU can start fining MS billions until they stop these underhanded anti-competitive tactics.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Well, just notice that this isn't "two playing that game". It's the government explicitly kicking the scammers out of the place and freeing the victims.
- progval 2y ago
  The EU decided not to: > In September 2016, the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that "the sale of a computer equipped with pre-installed software does not in itself constitute an unfair commercial practice within the meaning of Directive 2005/29 when such an offer is not contrary to the requirements of professional diligence and does not distort the economic behaviour of [purchasers]." The Court also ruled that Directive 2005/29 does not require OEMs to include a separate price for an operating system license. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows