4 ms·

I will say the one problem with it from the perspective of young people is they always get the dick. * Young people suffer the hardest from the housing crisis

I will say the one problem with it from the perspective of young people is they always get the dick. * Young people suffer the hardest from the housing crisis * Young people suffer the most in any kind of job market challenges * Young people have the least say in elections * Young people now give up the app they use that actually makes them happy and helps to forget about how shit the world has become for them. Also an app that makes some of them real money. Basically, the youth have no real legislation in their favour while their quality of life continues to degrade. I imagine that gets old. This is a rant from someone who supports the tiktok ban.. but I'd extend it to all social media.

ericmay 2y ago
Just because I think it’s interesting to mention given your perspective about how the youth feel, here is how they’ve changed voting patterns [1]: In past years, voters under 30 have proved essential on the margins, especially for Democrats, where even minimal shifts in support can decide an election. It was a group that Vice President Harris had hoped would be part of her winning coalition this year. Instead, she underperformed, and President-elect Trump made gains. Since 2008, winning Democratic candidates have received at least 60% support from young voters, but Harris did not meet that threshold, getting 54%, according to early exit polls. [1] https://www.npr.org/2024/11/07/g-s1-33331/unpacking-the-2024-youth-vote-heres-what-we-know-so-far https://www.npr.org/2024/11/07/g-s1-33331/unpacking-the-2024...
- rayiner 2y ago
  Gen Z is interesting. My brother and sister in law are Gen Z (my wife and I are older millennials). My brother in law and his girlfriend are openly Trump supporters (both happen to be non-white). They went to the rallies and stuff. So are a lot of his friends at work in a blue city (tech sales). My sister in law is liberalish, does the pronoun sharing before group meetings for school, but doesn’t feel strongly about the issue compared to virtually all the millenial women I know.
  - everfrustrated 2y ago
    Over the last 16 years Democrats have occupied the White House 75% of the time, so for younger folk Democrats are the establishment and Republicans the underdog.
    - ericmay 2y ago
      I'm not sure it's that simple. You have to take into account Congress and the Supreme Court as well.
      - warner25 2y ago
        I'm pretty sure that only a small minority of Americans, let alone those in the 18-29 age group, can name their senators and representative and anyone on the Supreme Court. Unfortunately, most Americans instead seem to imagine this country as an autocracy in which they get to vote for a new ruler every four years.
        kjkjadksj 2y ago
        Probably the most impactful to your own life vote you can cast is the local municipal one. And that has such poor turnout among the youth it is crazy. Even in places where they mail you a ballot automatically and you have two weeks to vote at polls. People just don’t care to be engaged.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      I think it’s more specific than that. The 2008 surge of young people to democrats was driven by rage at the failures of two institutions: the banks (the Great Recession), and the intelligence apparatus (Iraq war). But those institutions never were reformed, and today the Democratic Party has become the staunchest defenders of the banks and the intelligence apparatus.
      - warner25 2y ago
        But for Gen Z folks, that stuff is ancient history, isn't it? Even the oldest members (using 1997 as a starting point, but some definitions use 2000) were too young to protest or serve in Iraq[1]. By the time the youngest Gen Z folks were starting school in the mid-2010s, the US stock market and unemployment rate had reached pre-recession levels too. [1] I mean when people cared about Iraq, 2003 to circa 2008. We still have troops there, but I don't think most of America is even aware of that.
rhubarbtree 2y ago
> Young people now give up the app they use that actually makes them happy Citation needed - social media seems to be very bad for young people's health, if anything.
- michaelt 2y ago
  If the US was doing this for teen mental health, they'd have banned Twitter and Facebook too. This isn't about teen mental health.
  - jader201 2y ago
    I don’t think the parent comment was arguing the motive for the ban. They’re just saying they’re not convinced TikTok causes the overall happiness the GP comment claims. I think it’s hard to argue that any social media has a net positive effect on mental health of any age, let alone the younger generations.
    - SecretDreams 2y ago
      My own claim is more like a dopamine high. Like smoking. Both bad things in the long run, but makes them happu in the moment. Video games probably up there too in their current manifestation. Anywho, main point is more about giving this already vulnerable demographic more tools to succeed. Especially if, from their perspective, all we keep doing is making their lives worse.
- fakedang 2y ago
  That's like telling a drug addict that it's bad for his/her health. Sure you're staying facts, but they're not going to take it up. Might as well preach to the wind. From a young one's perspective, it's natural they're going to take it as one more incursion into their lives, else Red Note, an app made for a largely Chinese audience by an unrelated company would not have seen so much uptake over the past few days.
  - ipython 2y ago
CompoundEyes 2y ago
Thanks for pointing their position out. I work with and have these kids they have a lot to offer. They manage a lot of complexity - thus practicing for the always increasingly complex world. I know it’s cliche for prev generations to be down on the next. I have seen such an uptick in talking heads blaming them for {something}. e.g. Bill Maher They have little power! Lacking enough to execute what they are supposedly the cause of. Those who do should wield theirs to improve their education system or whatever deficit they believe the “kids” have instead of blaming.
404mm 2y ago
> * Young people have the least say in elections While this is true from the perspective of voting laws (you can vote after 18 but you don’t need to be 18 to see how f’d ip things are…), it’s also true that the age bracket 18-29 has the lowest participation in elections. I didn’t do the math but I would not be surprised if the last elections turned differently if this bracket increased to percentage levels seen amongst older ages. https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016 https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-20...
- jenny91 2y ago
  Young people (and really any working age people) just really don't have that much time, energy, and (mostly importantly) money to dedicate to impacting election and legislative results. When you're working age you have more imminent things to worry about, but the matter of fact is that it's mostly retired people who think the world is going to s*t whose voices are heard the loudest. Of course you can say it's a question of priorities and it's "their fault" for not being politically active, but I would argue the system is stacked against young people's political participation. Also, most places in the US have minimum age limits for elected positions.
  - jappgar 2y ago
    Voting isn't hard and costs nothing People who don't vote have no right to complain about the government. Arguments like yours are used by lazy people to justify non-participation. You aren't helping them by making excuses for them.
    - SecretDreams 2y ago
      I'd say arguments like yours are why people don't vote.
      - jappgar 2y ago
        They don't vote because people criticize them for not voting?
ipython 2y ago
I agree that young folks feel the pain more acutely - inflation, education and housing costs hurt the most as they have the least amount of income/savings. I’m not sure I would elevate TikTok to that degree though - we have some serious issues especially for young men. Not sure that scrolling through TikTok videos is actually fixing any of that- it’s like saying “don’t take away the heroin, it’s the only thing that makes me feel happy”
- SecretDreams 2y ago
  We're aligned on your second paragraph. It just doesn't change how these demographics *feel*. Maybe if we're going to cancel tiktok or whatever, offer them some tax credits to cover the cost of registration for a coed sport or other such things that might enable them to be happier. Do more to help them get their first house and get their life going. Just taking things from this demographic, without giving back, is a surefire way keep them disenfranchised. Even if we're taking something away that is objectively harmful to them (but still keeping instagram around lol).
maximilianburke 2y ago
Then either participate in your government or, at the very least, vote. Take control of your destiny.
- SecretDreams 2y ago
  > Take control of your destiny. Deck is stacked against them from birth. The entire system discourages from a young age what you're proposing. So if these kids feel so disenfranchised (and often filled with misinformation) from a young age, it's entirely unreasonable for us to expect them to "step up" in a vacuum. You need better systems in place from the beginning to help someone become a better person.
  - maximilianburke 2y ago
    Well, better do nothing then!
    - SecretDreams 2y ago
      It's like asking pigs to rebel buddy. If you want people to energize, you've got to give them more the a pulse. You've gotta at least let them think they've got a chance at the American dream of they energize. Reality is the American dream is dead for most young people not born with a spoon up their ass. And that seems more and more by design. When you experience this reality your whole life, you carry a level of apathy that "get out and vote" is meaningless to hear. Lives need to get better from a young age. People need to believe in the American dream again. But the policies set in place over the last 30 years are heavy.
      - maximilianburke 2y ago
        Sure, but your choices are to: 1. Participate in the system 2. Violently overthrow the system 3. Do nothing Sitting on the internet and whinging about how the deck is stacked against you is choosing option 3. Fact of the matter is that a lot of people picked option 3 because of whatever reasons they had and now a bunch of oligarchs and criminals are running the joint now. Voting is the least you can do if actually running for an elected position is not an option. What do you propose as an actual alternative?

ericmay 2y ago

Just because I think it’s interesting to mention given your perspective about how the youth feel, here is how they’ve changed voting patterns [1]: In past years, voters under 30 have proved essential on the margins, especially for Democrats, where even minimal shifts in support can decide an election. It was a group that Vice President Harris had hoped would be part of her winning coalition this year. Instead, she underperformed, and President-elect Trump made gains. Since 2008, winning Democratic candidates have received at least 60% support from young voters, but Harris did not meet that threshold, getting 54%, according to early exit polls. [1] https://www.npr.org/2024/11/07/g-s1-33331/unpacking-the-2024-youth-vote-heres-what-we-know-so-far https://www.npr.org/2024/11/07/g-s1-33331/unpacking-the-2024...

rayiner 2y ago
Gen Z is interesting. My brother and sister in law are Gen Z (my wife and I are older millennials). My brother in law and his girlfriend are openly Trump supporters (both happen to be non-white). They went to the rallies and stuff. So are a lot of his friends at work in a blue city (tech sales). My sister in law is liberalish, does the pronoun sharing before group meetings for school, but doesn’t feel strongly about the issue compared to virtually all the millenial women I know.
- everfrustrated 2y ago
  Over the last 16 years Democrats have occupied the White House 75% of the time, so for younger folk Democrats are the establishment and Republicans the underdog.
  - ericmay 2y ago
    I'm not sure it's that simple. You have to take into account Congress and the Supreme Court as well.
    - warner25 2y ago
      I'm pretty sure that only a small minority of Americans, let alone those in the 18-29 age group, can name their senators and representative and anyone on the Supreme Court. Unfortunately, most Americans instead seem to imagine this country as an autocracy in which they get to vote for a new ruler every four years.
      - kjkjadksj 2y ago
        Probably the most impactful to your own life vote you can cast is the local municipal one. And that has such poor turnout among the youth it is crazy. Even in places where they mail you a ballot automatically and you have two weeks to vote at polls. People just don’t care to be engaged.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    I think it’s more specific than that. The 2008 surge of young people to democrats was driven by rage at the failures of two institutions: the banks (the Great Recession), and the intelligence apparatus (Iraq war). But those institutions never were reformed, and today the Democratic Party has become the staunchest defenders of the banks and the intelligence apparatus.
    - warner25 2y ago
      But for Gen Z folks, that stuff is ancient history, isn't it? Even the oldest members (using 1997 as a starting point, but some definitions use 2000) were too young to protest or serve in Iraq[1]. By the time the youngest Gen Z folks were starting school in the mid-2010s, the US stock market and unemployment rate had reached pre-recession levels too. [1] I mean when people cared about Iraq, 2003 to circa 2008. We still have troops there, but I don't think most of America is even aware of that.

rhubarbtree 2y ago

> Young people now give up the app they use that actually makes them happy Citation needed - social media seems to be very bad for young people's health, if anything.

michaelt 2y ago
If the US was doing this for teen mental health, they'd have banned Twitter and Facebook too. This isn't about teen mental health.
- jader201 2y ago
  I don’t think the parent comment was arguing the motive for the ban. They’re just saying they’re not convinced TikTok causes the overall happiness the GP comment claims. I think it’s hard to argue that any social media has a net positive effect on mental health of any age, let alone the younger generations.
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    My own claim is more like a dopamine high. Like smoking. Both bad things in the long run, but makes them happu in the moment. Video games probably up there too in their current manifestation. Anywho, main point is more about giving this already vulnerable demographic more tools to succeed. Especially if, from their perspective, all we keep doing is making their lives worse.
fakedang 2y ago
That's like telling a drug addict that it's bad for his/her health. Sure you're staying facts, but they're not going to take it up. Might as well preach to the wind. From a young one's perspective, it's natural they're going to take it as one more incursion into their lives, else Red Note, an app made for a largely Chinese audience by an unrelated company would not have seen so much uptake over the past few days.
- ipython 2y ago

CompoundEyes 2y ago

Thanks for pointing their position out. I work with and have these kids they have a lot to offer. They manage a lot of complexity - thus practicing for the always increasingly complex world. I know it’s cliche for prev generations to be down on the next. I have seen such an uptick in talking heads blaming them for {something}. e.g. Bill Maher They have little power! Lacking enough to execute what they are supposedly the cause of. Those who do should wield theirs to improve their education system or whatever deficit they believe the “kids” have instead of blaming.

404mm 2y ago

> * Young people have the least say in elections While this is true from the perspective of voting laws (you can vote after 18 but you don’t need to be 18 to see how f’d ip things are…), it’s also true that the age bracket 18-29 has the lowest participation in elections. I didn’t do the math but I would not be surprised if the last elections turned differently if this bracket increased to percentage levels seen amongst older ages. https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016 https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-20...

jenny91 2y ago
Young people (and really any working age people) just really don't have that much time, energy, and (mostly importantly) money to dedicate to impacting election and legislative results. When you're working age you have more imminent things to worry about, but the matter of fact is that it's mostly retired people who think the world is going to s*t whose voices are heard the loudest. Of course you can say it's a question of priorities and it's "their fault" for not being politically active, but I would argue the system is stacked against young people's political participation. Also, most places in the US have minimum age limits for elected positions.
- jappgar 2y ago
  Voting isn't hard and costs nothing People who don't vote have no right to complain about the government. Arguments like yours are used by lazy people to justify non-participation. You aren't helping them by making excuses for them.
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    I'd say arguments like yours are why people don't vote.
    - jappgar 2y ago
      They don't vote because people criticize them for not voting?

ipython 2y ago

I agree that young folks feel the pain more acutely - inflation, education and housing costs hurt the most as they have the least amount of income/savings. I’m not sure I would elevate TikTok to that degree though - we have some serious issues especially for young men. Not sure that scrolling through TikTok videos is actually fixing any of that- it’s like saying “don’t take away the heroin, it’s the only thing that makes me feel happy”

SecretDreams 2y ago
We're aligned on your second paragraph. It just doesn't change how these demographics *feel*. Maybe if we're going to cancel tiktok or whatever, offer them some tax credits to cover the cost of registration for a coed sport or other such things that might enable them to be happier. Do more to help them get their first house and get their life going. Just taking things from this demographic, without giving back, is a surefire way keep them disenfranchised. Even if we're taking something away that is objectively harmful to them (but still keeping instagram around lol).

maximilianburke 2y ago

Then either participate in your government or, at the very least, vote. Take control of your destiny.

SecretDreams 2y ago
> Take control of your destiny. Deck is stacked against them from birth. The entire system discourages from a young age what you're proposing. So if these kids feel so disenfranchised (and often filled with misinformation) from a young age, it's entirely unreasonable for us to expect them to "step up" in a vacuum. You need better systems in place from the beginning to help someone become a better person.
- maximilianburke 2y ago
  Well, better do nothing then!
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    It's like asking pigs to rebel buddy. If you want people to energize, you've got to give them more the a pulse. You've gotta at least let them think they've got a chance at the American dream of they energize. Reality is the American dream is dead for most young people not born with a spoon up their ass. And that seems more and more by design. When you experience this reality your whole life, you carry a level of apathy that "get out and vote" is meaningless to hear. Lives need to get better from a young age. People need to believe in the American dream again. But the policies set in place over the last 30 years are heavy.
    - maximilianburke 2y ago
      Sure, but your choices are to: 1. Participate in the system 2. Violently overthrow the system 3. Do nothing Sitting on the internet and whinging about how the deck is stacked against you is choosing option 3. Fact of the matter is that a lot of people picked option 3 because of whatever reasons they had and now a bunch of oligarchs and criminals are running the joint now. Voting is the least you can do if actually running for an elected position is not an option. What do you propose as an actual alternative?