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Therefore, this power to influence younger generations should be restricted to US government and US big tech Corporation. They know what is best for them.
by thiagoharry 2y ago
Therefore, this power to influence younger generations should be restricted to US government and US big tech Corporation. They know what is best for them.
- grajaganDev 2y agoNothing in your comment changes this: "If China controls the recommendation system that decides what content people consume that, then they can influence the narrative of the country."
- cluckindan 2y agoAnyone can influence those narratives. Owning the system just makes it more efficient than astroturfing, puppeteering and trolling.
- grajaganDev 2y agoAgreed. But owning the platform makes influence far, far more efficient and that is why we should not allow our adversaries to do so.
- thiagoharry 2y agoAnd China propaganda is so powerful that US propaganda cannot counter this, even within US borders, following rules chosen by their own country, US propaganda is losing. What makes Chinese propaganda so powerful, even in the form of silly 30 seconds dancing? Or perhaps the real problem is not this? But the existance of a single non western source of consent manufacturing?
- tester756 2y agoYou are really arguing that US should improve on its propaganda game? wtf How about as little propaganda as possible?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- thiagoharry 2y agoBecause it will not happen. And cannot be enforced. No, im not arguing this because US already uses more propaganda than China. I was asking why americans are so afraid that chinese propaganda will be so more powerful than the Inês that they already have.
- grajaganDev 2y agoIt got enforced today.
- thiagoharry 2y agoHow? US propaganda, propaganda from big techs from US oligopolies will continue unchallenged and strenghtned, as they blocked a source that they apparently do not control.
- brookst 2y agoStrange take. Some kind of philosophical purity says that we should allow foreign adversaries to influence domestic audiences because we should be able to counter that influence with out own? It’s like saying you should allow someone to punch you because you “should” be able to punch yourself harder.
- michaelt 2y agoConsider how this spat looks from the perspective of a European. The US controls Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, Youtube, Reddit, Snapchat, Whatsapp. Owner of Twitter has office space in the white house, and is calling for the overthrow of elected European governments and deliberately spreading misinformation. Then the US sees one non-american-owned social media network and decides it's got to be banned. Perhaps those Europeans should consider whether they want foreigners influencing domestic audiences?
- grajaganDev 2y ago>The US controls Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, Youtube, Reddit, Snapchat, Whatsapp. Not in the way that the CCP controls ByteDance. ByteDance cannot win a lawsuit against the Chinese government. China, Russia and Iran are designated adversaries and will be treated as such. And I think Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, Youtube, Reddit, Snapchat, Whatsapp should be also be far more regulated. Musk won't be in the White House for long.
- brookst 2y agoYes, they should. The mistake here is seeing the US action as a universal moral statement and therefore hypocritical. The US action was simply pragmatic. There is no claim of universality or morality. I very much agree other countries should also look at US hegemony through a pragmatic lens: is this a net harm? It’s kind of funny that you raise it as a gotcha.
- thiagoharry 2y agoSo, letting divergent opinions from other countries and from different entities is like being punched? You know that most world uses social media from foreign entities, right? Curious how until few years ago, when there were no relevant competitors outside US, the dominant discourse was that only tyranical countries would do this.
- Aunche 2y agoWhy do you trust that an app based in China would actually comply with American rules? Facebook voluntarily disclosed that misinformation was spread on their platform. They cooperated with the DOJ to connect this misinformation campaign to thirteen Russian nationals and three Russian nationals. Would you expect the same cooperation from TikTok?
- motorest 2y ago> What makes Chinese propaganda so powerful, even in the form of silly 30 seconds dancing? TikTok is as much about silly 30 seconds dancing as Twitter was about posting 144 character messages or a prime time news program is about 2 minute clips with a voiceover. The way you fail to even frame the problem suggests you either are oblivious about the problem or you're doing your best to avoid discussing it.
- joyeuse6701 2y agoThe West does not have to tolerate the intolerant. When China opens its Internet to the world like it always should have, they can continue to play their little CCP “China good, Collective West bad” game in the West. To really be fair, we should lock our Internet from China for 30 years and let the Chinese people have the full wide un-CCP-censored Western consent Internet you’re talking about. We can start with old favorite topics like T-square, Winnie the Pooh, that COVID doctor the CCP suppressed and then martyred. Then we can sit down and have a frank discussion on what the terms of Internet use should be. Until then, China should be grateful their State enterprises were allowed in at all. But to answer your question, US propaganda isn’t countering because it just doesn’t exist. We have a free press. It can criticize the government, and does it every single day. The U.S. doesn’t do military parades, and its self marketing sucks because it’s not an imperative, unlike China. Furthermore, China clearly thinks propaganda and intense censorship is the way to go. What else can explain the efforts to A. Block Winnie the Pooh B. Block the sale of TikTok? Profit clearly isn’t the motive now, which is very suspicious of such a large ostensibly for profit company. The fact that the consideration to sell it to Trump/Musk in particular is floating around points to the political value of TikTok in the first place. Bribe the incoming admin, extract some favor in return, I.E. back down on Taiwan or relieve semiconductor tariffs. It’s all obvious.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- thiagoharry 2y agoSure, US propaganda do not exist. Not in Hollywood. Not in games. Not in social media and news sources. Makes one wonder then how people got so propagandized.
- grajaganDev 2y agoThis is an excellent example of a Straw Man argument.
- ignoramous 2y ago"If the US controls the food system that decides what content people consume, then they can kill an entire country." Hysteria or ban McDonald's/Pepsi/Coke/Subway/etc?
- grajaganDev 2y agoI think that this is an example of the Weak Analogy Fallacy.
- ignoramous 2y agoIt might come off as a "weak analogy" because it sounds weak to you ... to make the point that there are valid grounds (the epidemic of obesity & diabetes) for Xenophobic Asians to think addictive Coke / McDonald's are part of some sinister plot by the Americans to impoverish them. And that line of reasoning is ludicrous, or "weak" as you put it because it is (unless we are Xenophobic ourselves, then it isn't)! If you desire a strong analogy, do Hollywood, YouTube, Netflix etc, which are banned by the other side citing similar reasons to TikTok, I am sure. But the other side is totally authoritarian and we aren't, right?
- _heimdall 2y agoIf only we trusted in people to make their own decisions, but that's crazy talk. Its widely known at this point that TikTok is a Chinese owned business and that the CCP has a history if forcibly influencing companies to do their bidding. If people still want to use TikTok I don't see what the real problem is.
- killerstorm 2y agoYeah, I totally expect a 14 y.o. girl who joins TikTok to check trendy dance move to be aware of dangers of CCP propaganda. What percentage of population understands that propaganda can be subtle? Sneak some ragebait here and there to make it look like situation is worse than it is, exaggerate, radicalize people...
- grajaganDev 2y agoI had a CS grad student very confidently tell me that TikTok was not owned by a Chinese company.
- 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y agoa Chinese company, yes, but backed by some of the major investment funds in the west, the Chinese own 20%, Chinese government is under 1%.
- grajaganDev 2y agoThis seems a bit like splitting hairs. There is quite a bit of naivete regarding how the Chinese government controls Chinese companies. It is very different from the US.
- 6P58r3MXJSLi 2y ago> There is quite a bit of naivete regarding how the Chinese government controls Chinese companies. I happen to know how China works, have you got some example to present? > It is very different from the US. Actually, not really. Can Facebook keep alive their "fact checking" program, now that Trump is president and not Biden, whose administration ordered it, probably more against Trump himself, than any other adversary of the USA? Are Vanguard and BlackRock free to invest in whatever company they want? For example: why are Vanguard and BlackRock backing Unicredit to buy Commerzbank, one of the few European banks not owned or heavily funded by American funds?
- killerstorm 2y agoUS government is literally accountable to US citizens. If it is not, you have a bigger problem.
- ty6853 2y agoAspirationally yes. In practice US can't even rid itself of civil forfeiture or federal weed laws despite consistent majority against them. We can't get rid of overbearing housing regulations despite it destroying our youth. Hell the democratic party presidential candidate wasn't even chosen in a primary, just installed in without a public vote to ensure viability, handing a default.
- whatshisface 2y agoWe do have a giant problem with the policymaking community being very narrow, but the only way to solve it is by having communication platforms that aren't being influenced by that same community. When I say narrow, I mean narrow. The toppling of the Guatemalan liberal democracy and subsequent replacement by a dictator was performed at the behest of a handful of people who wanted to and did retire to a sinecure at United Fruit, and without the full knowledge of the president.
- Geezus_42 2y agoHasn't been for a while now. Our government is only held to account by the Oligarchs that own our politicians.
- microtonal 2y agoAnd somehow a majority votes for the candidate that puts an oligarch in power of an 'unofficial' position/department. It was clearly vote for people with a lot of money. Something about The government you elect is the government you deserve.?
- codechicago277 2y agoThe votes are following the propaganda, and Trump won the public opinion war. Democrats have been slow to learn this lesson and get their messaging and public relations under control.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y agoU.S. government isn't perfect, therefore we should let some other government just run wild in our country. I follow your logic.
- jappgar 2y agoThe propaganda has worked perfectly.