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Here is an example of a bee disemboweling itself: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/u9YDf9w6Ps8 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/u9YDf9w6Ps8 Here is another one: http

Here is an example of a bee disemboweling itself: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/u9YDf9w6Ps8 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/u9YDf9w6Ps8 Here is another one: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/fMxZ4vKmOZo https://m.youtube.com/shorts/fMxZ4vKmOZo So I've countered your two anecdotes with two anecdotes of my own. Can we go back to looking at what people studying bees have written? For example, this article interviews two bee scientists that confirm that the majority of honeybees die via self-disembowelment after stinging a human: https://www.livescience.com/do-bees-die-after-stinging https://www.livescience.com/do-bees-die-after-stinging However, they mention an interesting other thing, that may actually help explain what happens much better: bees don't die when they sting other insects or spiders, they only die when their needles get stuck in our thick skin. So perhaps the most likely explanation for the evolution and survival of the barbed stinger trait is that it's beneficial when bees fight their common enemies, and that bees simply don't interact that much with mammals and their thick skins.

imtringued 2y ago
I'm not sure why this answer is buried down so deep. It should be pretty obvious. The average bee has no reason to ever fight a mammal. Optimizing for a rare event like that makes no sense. It's only once humans started domesticating honey bees that the interaction between honey bees and mammals has become a frequent occurrence. Surviving attacks against humans that help you survive is a really strange priority.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  To be fair, many forest mammals will try to eat honey (bears and honey badgers being just two well known examples) and those have skins much thicker than even ours, so I suspect that bees have the same issues when stinging them. And those mammals are much more of a threat to a hive than insects and spiders, as they will virtually destroy the entire hive structure if they are not deterred, and likely kill thousands of larvae and bees.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > It's only once humans started domesticating honey bees that the interaction between honey bees and mammals has become a frequent occurrence. This can't possibly be true; the honeyguides are a family of birds whose evolved behavior is to find humans and lead them to wild beehives so that the humans can forage the honey (and the honeyguide can forage the leftovers).
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> So I've countered your two anecdotes with two anecdotes of my own. Can we go back to looking at what people studying bees have written? No? You claimed that bees stinging meat cannot survive. Your anecdotes do nothing to support that. Decide what you want to say, then look for support. Where do you get the idea that two examples of something happening provide just as much support for the idea that it always happens as four examples of it not happening do for the idea that it doesn't always happen? But for what it's worth, Aristotle wrote in the 4th century BC that bees stinging humans often recover, but that they will inevitably die if they lose their stinger.

imtringued 2y ago

I'm not sure why this answer is buried down so deep. It should be pretty obvious. The average bee has no reason to ever fight a mammal. Optimizing for a rare event like that makes no sense. It's only once humans started domesticating honey bees that the interaction between honey bees and mammals has become a frequent occurrence. Surviving attacks against humans that help you survive is a really strange priority.

tsimionescu 2y ago
To be fair, many forest mammals will try to eat honey (bears and honey badgers being just two well known examples) and those have skins much thicker than even ours, so I suspect that bees have the same issues when stinging them. And those mammals are much more of a threat to a hive than insects and spiders, as they will virtually destroy the entire hive structure if they are not deterred, and likely kill thousands of larvae and bees.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> It's only once humans started domesticating honey bees that the interaction between honey bees and mammals has become a frequent occurrence. This can't possibly be true; the honeyguides are a family of birds whose evolved behavior is to find humans and lead them to wild beehives so that the humans can forage the honey (and the honeyguide can forage the leftovers).

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> So I've countered your two anecdotes with two anecdotes of my own. Can we go back to looking at what people studying bees have written? No? You claimed that bees stinging meat cannot survive. Your anecdotes do nothing to support that. Decide what you want to say, then look for support. Where do you get the idea that two examples of something happening provide just as much support for the idea that it always happens as four examples of it not happening do for the idea that it doesn't always happen? But for what it's worth, Aristotle wrote in the 4th century BC that bees stinging humans often recover, but that they will inevitably die if they lose their stinger.