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Anyone here who's not a TikTok content creator reasonably upset about losing access to the platform? Can you tell me why it will sting for you? I was really sur

Anyone here who's not a TikTok content creator reasonably upset about losing access to the platform? Can you tell me why it will sting for you? I was really surprised that my daughters (avid teenage TikTok users) are much more relieved than mad. Both said they wasted too much time on TikTok and were hoping life will now feel better. Seems the very thing that made the platform sticky puts it in a guilty pleasure category perhaps. (I'm asking about the lived experience outside of the political questions around who should decide what we see / access online.) EDIT: Thank you for the replies! Interesting. I'm still wondering if most people use TikTok just for passive entertainment? I don't love Youtube, but it's been a huge learning and music discovery resource for me. The only thing I get sent from TikTok are dances and silly memes but I don't have an account.

scinerio 2y ago
Not a content creator and use it regularly. My algorithm is mostly silly stuff, music, etc. I'm not convinced there's a discernible risk to national security, and as someone with a lot of libertarian views, I think the ban is an overstep by the US government. The "sticky"-ness is real, but many will flock to the TikTok copies in other platforms like Instagram, Facebook, X, anyway. Regardless, I enjoy the platform. It's fun to reference the viral sounds/trends on the platform with other friends that use it.
Ateoto 2y ago
I'm pretty upset about it honestly. TikTok's algorithm has always done a fantastic job of providing interesting clips in a way that Facebook and Instagram has never been able to provide. I will say that upon a new account, it's mostly garbage, but it quickly learned what I was interested in and what I would tend to engage with. It also does this while showing me considerably fewer ads than the meta platforms.
- sillysaurusx 2y ago
  Seconded. My experiences were similar. That said, the algorithm got noticeably worse after 2021. Maybe because of the TikTok shop. I’ve categorized around 3,000 clips into different collections (with 600+ being in “educational”) but that fell off over the last few years. I would be a lot more upset about the ban if they had maintained quality, but now I’m like well, whatever.
- Arkhadia 2y ago
  Serious question: Why is the back end learning of so many human habits not creepy to you? It was weaponized once with how they created armies of teenagers who called their local representatives and made threats.
  - cma 2y ago
    They weaponized the backend to drive that by injecting in recommendations for that inorganically, or that was something that emerged from having a recommender system backend?
  - chimeracoder 2y ago
    > It was weaponized once with how they created armies of teenagers who called their local representatives and made threats. This is an extremely dramatic way of saying "they had a banner in the app which informed users of a policy that affected them and directed them to contact their representatives", something which plenty of other social media platforms, such as Reddit have done without controversy.
  - raydev 2y ago
    > Why is the back end learning of so many human habits not creepy to you? In the context of banning TikTok for this particular reason, then X.com, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube are all equally guilty in how they both boost and suppress different types of content based on interference from local government.
alienthrowaway 2y ago
> I was really surprised that my daughters (avid teenage TikTok users) are much more relieved than mad. A sense of relief may be a coping mechanism. I've heard laid-off colleagues inform me they felt relief in the immediate aftermath; granted, the lay-offs were pre-announced before they communicated who would be "impacted", and it was at a high-pressure environment; but the human mind sometimes reacts in unexpected ways to loss outside of one's control. Rationalization is a mechanism for ego defense.
- IAmGraydon 2y ago
  It doesn't occur to you that they may be relieved because they know they're addicted and are glad that someone is going to step in and give them the help they can't give themselves?
  - phito 2y ago
    So many people in this thread trying to justify their addiction.
  - alienthrowaway 2y ago
    > It doesn't occur to you... It did occur to me, which is why I couched my statement with "may". Though your framing is still compatible with "rationalization" I found the tone of your comment needlessly - and weirdly combative.
spandrew 2y ago
They'll be on RedNote within 2 weeks. Other's have said it; but TikTok was such a nice format for media. It emphasized what the creator can provide its users; what content was legit; entertaining, informative, etc. Whereas Instagram and FB are more about personal "branding". You post the best version of yourself and it's rewarded with engagement. Where on TikTok the emphasis is on the content; even creators I follow and have seen dozens of videos on I couldn't tell you what their account name was. On TikTok you put up or you were shut up. The experience, in the end, was always on point for shortform content. Nothing else like it exists; and I don't think American tech can make it because they benefit too much from being ad networks. Maybe YouTube shorts.
- bearjaws 2y ago
  > what content was legit scrolls past 10 temu adds for clearly pirated retro game consoles, same comment 9 times "oh if you bought X last week I feel sorry its not 50% off!!!"
- toddmorey 2y ago
  I've heard the algorithms for YouTube shorts are much worse. Most people have said the best thing about TikTok is how well it learns the content you want to see.
  - pxc 2y ago
    This is true. Many people I know have uninstalled TikTok because it is too addictive, but no one ever does that with YouTube shorts.
    - cyberlurker 2y ago
      Wrong. YouTube shorts ruined the app for me. No way to disable them.
      - theshrike79 2y ago
        Not even with parental controls. I'm kinda OK with my kids using Youtube, but I don't want them getting sucked into the infinite pool of shit that is Shorts. But I can't block it even with parental controls.
Karrot_Kream 2y ago
I have a lot of Japanese friends and travel between Japan and here frequently. TikTok is huge in Japan and a lot of my For You Page is content trending in Japanese spheres. I don't live in Japan so being able to plug into Japanese media is a very, very convenient thing. I'll probably continue trying to use the app if possible since I mostly connect with Japanese content, but I will say there's also a fun world of Japanese creators who straddle the English and Japanese speaking words who are about to lose an outlet to the English speaking world, and I feel really bad for that too. The "algorithm" is also just so much better than Reels and others. I spent an afternoon of PTO training my algorithm a couple years ago and it's been great ever since. My partner and I share TikToks with each other all the time and. we shape each other's algorithm and interests. Reels fixates too much on your follows and Youtube Shorts is honestly a garbage experience. Both platforms really reward creators building "brands" around their content rather than just being authentic or silly. I treat Reels as the place for polished creators or local businesses who are trying to sell me something and TikTok as the place for content. I find that I get a lot less ragebait surfaced to me than I do on other platforms, though I admit my partner gets more than I do. We both skip those videos quickly and that has helped keep this stuff off our FYP. An important thing to remember is TikTok was one of the first platforms that was opt-in for short-form content. Both Reels and Shorts was foisted upon users who had different expectations of the network and as such had to deal with the impedance mismatch of the existing network and users who didn't want short-form content. TikTok's entire value proposition is short-form content.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  I second this. I spend a few minutes each evening watching random people out and about in Japan, Korea, China as it is fascinating to learn about foreign cultures in such a direct way. Just yesterday I learned about the palm scanners some stores in China have as a payment system.
glenstein 2y ago
I've found something like a very efficient sorting into communities of shared interest, and something egalitarian in being able to see people with 0 views and get reactions from them. It's by contrast to say, Youtube and X, where The Algorithm (tm) sustains a central Nile river of dominant creators and you're either in it or you're not. That said, I think the political questions are rightly the dominant ones in this convo and those color my lived experience of it.
- onemoresoop 2y ago
  You’re right about youtube shoving the main river on you but recently discovered a lot of niche youtubers with very few views in my areas of interest. I just wish I had more control in what the feed returns, for example if im irked by a certain content I should be able to escape it with a click. But thats not how youtube or facebook/instagram work. Content is targeted at you behind the scenes based on an accidental encounter you had in the past with some content and there’s no way to disable that. Don’t recommend this channel/page doesn’t work because there’s an army of channels/pages that push the same content on you. This is very powerful for paid propaganda
eddythompson80 2y ago
TikTok has replaced Reddit for me (I can expand more on why I stopped using Reddit, but it's not related to TikTok) in terms of "checking what's up on the internet" or as Reddit would put it "Checking the homepage of the internet". I trust TikTok's "algorithm" to give me quick and entertaining short-bits about what's going on, what's interesting, etc. It learns what I'm into effortlessly, and I appreciate how every now and then it would throw in a completely new (to me) genera or type of content to check out. Whenever I open it, there is a feed that's been curated to me about things I'm interested in checking out, few new things that are hit or miss (and I like that), and very few infuriating/stupid (to me) things. Its recommendation engine is the best I have used. It's baffling how shitty YouTube's algorithm is. I discover YouTube channels I'm into form TikTok. Sometimes I'd discover new (or old) interesting videos from YouTube channels I already follow from TikTok first. For example, I follow Veritasium and 3Blue1Brown on YouTube but I certainly haven't watched their full back catalog. YouTube NEVER recommends to me anything from their back catalog. When I'm in the mood, I have to go to their channel, scroll for a while, then try to find a video I'd be interested in from the thumbnail/title. And once I do, YouTube will re-recommend to me all the videos I have already watched from them (which are already their best performing videos). Rarely would it recommend something new from them. On TikTok, it frequently would pull clips from old Veritasium or 3Blue1Brown videos for me which I'd get hooked after watching 10 seconds, then hob on YouTube to watch the full video. It's insane how bad YouTube recommendation algorithm is. Literally the entire "recommended" section of youtube is stuff I have watched before, or stuff with exactly the same content as things I have watched before. Here is how I find their recommendation algorithm to work: YouTube: Oh you watched (and liked) a brisket smoking video? Here is that video again, and 10 other "brisket smoking videos". These are just gonna be stuck on your home page for the next couple of weeks now. You need to click on them one by one and mark "not interested" in which case you're clearly not interested in BBQ or cooking. Here are the last 10 videos you watched, and some MrBeast videos and some random YouTube drama videos. TikTok: Oh you watched (and liked) a brisket smoking video? How about another BBQ video, a video about smokers and their models, some videos about cookouts and BBQ side dishes, a video about a DIY smoker, another about a DIY backyard project for hosting BBQ cookouts, a video about how smoke flavors food, a video about the history of BBQ in the south, a video about a BBQ joint in your city (or where ever my VPN is connected from), etc. And if you're not interested in any of those particular types, it learns from how long you spend watching the video and would branch more or less in that direction in the future. Another example is search. Search for "sci fi books recommendations": YouTube: Here are 3 videos about Sci-Fi books. Here are 4 brisket smoking videos. Here are some lost hikers videos (because you watched a video about a lost hiker 3 weeks ago). Here are 3 videos about a breaking story in the news. Here are 2 videos about sci-fi books, and another 8 about brisket. TikTok: Here is a feed of videos about Sci-Fi books. And I'll make sure to throw in sci-fi book videos into your curated feed every now and then to see if you're interested.
scarecrowbob 2y ago
I'm pretty upset about it and I am not a creator. I'm not just upset because I have a general dislike of being told I'm an idiotic, addicted, communist stooge who is easily brainwashed. I am used to folks telling me that- it started when I was writing anti-war editorials in the early oughts, so there is nothing new in that. What I regret is that I have been following a number of quite-good political discussions on the platform, with a nicely diverse group of interlocutors. While the discussion generally leans far left, there are many flavors of that left: not a lot of tankies, mostly just people between "dirt bag left" and "black panther party", lots of women, BIPOC, trans folks, academics, working people, indigenous folks, queer folks of all stripes, activists, and folks who just don't like authority. Those conversations had been very hard to come by on Yt, Ig, or Fb. I think it's the response format for videos. I don't think it's worth bothering to speculate about other reasons, though I did note that several legitimate left news sources were shuttered in 2020 when Meta and Tw started their political purge. Anyhow, I know that folks in the US have very little regard for political autonomy, so I am not surprised that this happens, and compared to the carceral state and the happy ecocide of the planet this is a very little thing. But I will still miss it.
- Eextra953 2y ago
  My fyp was very similar. I'm going to miss having so many like minded folks to hear from and interact with. I don't think any other app has given me this same sense of community and to some degree empowerment. I am very left leaning in my politics, I also happen to be a POC who is surrounded by apolitical friends. TikTok showed me that there are other folks just like me - that is a powerful and reassuring feeling.
  - groggo 2y ago
    Same. I mean I didn't find quite the same type of community, but I did get exposed to content that was different than other platforms. Just weirder, more fun, more interesting. Definitely going to miss it if it goes away. It's unfortunate that more people can't see that it: 1. actually has some social value 2. banning it is a restriction on our freedom Obviously, it's 3. mostly junk and brain rot 4. a potential tool for Chinese influence and manipulation But I think we need to accept that 1 & 2 override 3 & 4. Honestly for 4, it's more important to have a widely used source that isn't necessarily subject to the same restrictions (legal or cultural) as US-based apps.
School-Cotton 2y ago
> Anyone here who's not a TikTok content creator reasonably upset about losing access to the platform? Can you tell me why it will sting for you? I like living in a country where the government does not get to decide what I'm allowed to read/watch/see. The TikTok ban chips away at that in a meaningful way. I value this above most other concerns, including vague worries about "Chinese spying".
lucifer2104 2y ago
technology changed our life. especially internet and smart phone impact a lot on social engagement between peoples. if people spend much time on internet or smart phones daily, if it is not tiktok, it will be something else. should we go back to non smart phone time? or even roll back to no internet time? maybe no electricity time. technology is just like a tool. how people use it matters not the technology itself can be evil. tiktok's algorithm helps speed up information delivery to the people who likes it. eventually it helps to form a community of people online who like similar thing or have similar options. people needs to be aware of the content on any platform has "survivorship bias". seeing couple of examples is not representing the whole.
lynndotpy 2y ago
I don't create for TikTok, I have never had a TikTok account, and I don't use TikTok, outside of being exposed to videos on other sites, or occasionally clicking a link. I had been exposed to DouYin before, but my first experience of TikTok in real life was someone at a party, holding their phone, exclaiming something along the lines of "I can't look away, it's so addictive." It was uncomfortable, and I'm aware of how fake this sounds, but it happened. But I think this is very bad. With Section 230 in crosshairs, EARN IT being reintroduced every year or two, and access to books and sites being fragmented across the US, things are very already bad, and have the potential to get much worse. TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship. Congress didn't just "ban TikTok", Congress banned its first social media. This is case law, this is precedent, this is a path for banning other social media apps. I think this is bad because I think this is the start of something new and something bad for the internet.
- gnkyfrg 2y ago
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- esperent 2y ago
  > TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship I don't see it that way. I'm not American and I've never used TikTok. I don't see any censorship here. This is more of an ongoing power struggle between the US and China, tit for tat after they banned American apps. Censorship would mean that they're banning actual content. That's not what's happening here. Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Banning a platform is not censorship. It's like banning a book publishing house but allowing any other publisher to continue publishing their books. It does appear that there is actual censorship, in the form of book banning, happening in several US states recently. But this ain't that.
  - starfezzy 2y ago
    > Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Sure, you can repost TikTok content anywhere, but what people really notice when they recognize that tiktok's algorithm is unique—without realizing it—is that it's apolitical by default, and not-western when politics come into play. It actually shows you what you're interested in, instead of force-feeding western progressive/consumerist messaging and banning half its users for wrongthink. So yeah, post the same content on Reels/Shorts if you want, but if it doesn't align with the western narrative, good luck with the shadowbans and downranking.
gnkyfrg 2y ago
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aryonoco 2y ago
My wife, well into her 30s, initially got an inkling that she might be on the Autism spectrum after being exposed to TiKTok videos of high masking, high functioning women who talked about their Autism. After many years and dozens of tests and questionnaires and appointments with speech pathologists, occupational therapists and psychiatrists, she was formally diagnosed last year with Level 2 Autism (there are 3 levels here in Australia). After years of being misdiagnosed with various forms of anxiety or depression (and none of those drugs or treatments being helpful for her), this has been life changing. So much of her early childhood and past life now suddenly makes sense. We used to be very bad at diagnosing autism in girls
jrflowers 2y ago
I personally like the stupid time wasting app. There is a little pig on there that they dress up in little outfits and you can watch it eat treats
- jeffhuys 2y ago
  Sigh…
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    What? If you do not like the pig the app also has live streams of people cutting their own bangs. Something for everyone!
    - wruza 2y ago
      I know you’re joking, but this is not true. There’s something short and stupid for everyone, but not something interesting for everyone at all. Last couple years I spent my media time watching trackmania and noita for the most part. These are just-games, but with rich interesting worlds behind them. I can’t imagine spending all this time watching a pig or people cutting bangs or someone lipsyncing or talking nonsense. Not judging, but it’s such mind disgracing activity in my view.
      - neaden 2y ago
        "Not judging, but it’s such mind disgracing activity in my view." Just because you say not judging doesn't mean you are not judging.
        wruza 2y ago
        Sometimes it’s hard to discern the line between judging and sharing a personal opinion, because even an opinion may hurt.
        jrflowers 2y ago
tomjen3 2y ago
I don't have an account, but how about this: I don't want the government to ban websites or apps in general, and certainly not for who owns them. The internet was supposed to be a global thing, where it didn't matter who you were and everyone could connect to everyone. That is the internet I grew up with.
rzz3 2y ago
Not a content creator, but a TikTok user for several years. I really feel like the app changed my life. It opened my world to new cultures and ideas, brought me out of my comfort zone, introduced me to several real life friends. I made big changes in my life as a direct result of TikTok and have improved my life and health significantly as a result. I’ll be really sad to see it go.
- eleveriven 2y ago
  Just out of curiosity, how did the app improve your life?
  - rzz3 2y ago
    In no particular order: - I learned a new language and moved to a new country, as a direct result of what I saw and learned from TikTok. - I learned about countless new cultures from all over the world. - I learned new perspectives about domestic and international politics. - I met a variety of real, online friends and 3 real life friends who I actually spend time with in person. - I was able to learn how to express my emotions in better and more constructive ways. - I learned a ton of random things about every subject matter I can think of—from AI and programming, to psychology, to cooking, to mechanical and electrical engineering, history, medicine, science, etc. As a generalist it’s very important to me, as I’m able to connect information well across diverse subject areas. - I discovered the majority of the music I listen to these days. - I started traveling the world, learning how to do it safely and finding new destinations I didn’t previously know anything about. The list really goes on and on, but these are some of the quick highlights that come to mind. Thanks for asking!
    - eleveriven 2y ago
      Thank you for sharing! It sounds like you’ve found a meaningful corner of TikTok! And your response helped me to realize those positive aspects
deleted 2y ago
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fudged71 2y ago
As a millennial, I use TikTok as a “normie” version of Reddit. The algorithm has a similar vibe. It puts content in front of me that I’m likely to be interested in, exposing me to quite a diverse set of content. The instagram/youtube algorithms don’t come anywhere close in comparison. It’s a guilty pleasure in the dopamine sense, but also surfaces a lot of informative content if you bias towards that! I suppose it depends how you use it.
- popcalc 2y ago
  Reddit is normie.
azernik 2y ago
It's annoying to have to take the time to train my recommender on a different platform. I'm sure I could get YouTube Shorts to eventually give me an equivalently pleasant experience, it's just a pain.
matwood 2y ago
I don't really care either way. I used TikTok and uninstalled it since I found myself watching more than doing. Even if you curate your algorithm to 'good' stuff, it's still just consuming.
jasonlotito 2y ago
I'll try to directly relate this to something you are familiar with. > Can you tell me why it will sting for you? Imagine Hacker News without the comments. > The only thing I get sent from TikTok are dances and silly memes That's like saying Hacker News is just old links about useless stuff from other parts of the internet.
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  Hacker News without the comments sounds pretty lame
  - bookofjoe 2y ago
    Hacker News without the comments? 0 interest
ok123456 2y ago
All the other content recommendation systems force you into a ghetto and are highly auto-regressive. They only show you content like they already showed you, so you will never be exposed to new things. This hampers discovery, and you end up with only a few winner-take-all accounts with mass appeal and mass distribution (e.g., "Mr. Beast") who are broadly not interesting or specialized. TikTok is more stochastic and is more likely to give wider circulation to niche and esoteric subjects. Booktok could never happen on YouTube shorts or Instagram. Using those other platforms is like shouting into the wind. You could have videos up for years and not get 50 views. With TikTok, a random video could be seen by 250k people. A corollary to other systems being so auto-regressive is that they are much more dangerous for vulnerable people. If Instagram decides to start showing you extremist or otherwise political content, that is all you will see. This is the "rabbit hole" effect that people have commented upon. This doesn't happen to the same degree with TikTok; while this content can be recommended, it's not all that will be recommended.
- oliyoung 2y ago
  Think you nailed TikTok's magic sauce, that algorithm finely balances the ghettoization of most traditional social networks and the "you might like this" randomness that feels like it's two-steps of interest away from your usual feed. Any regular user will see that pattern of 10-15 things that fit a pattern, and then a couple of very clear pieces of tracer content that expands and reinforces your own FYP. It shows an understanding and adoption of risk that most western social networks don't have, while they're too invested in supporting and reinforcing the status quo, TikTok has always felt a little more willing to find the edges of/expand your interests.
- Sammi 2y ago
  Each and every time I open youtube I think "there surely must be other stuff on here", but yt has me so doggedly pigeonholed they won't let me ever see anything outside of what I've watches in the last two days. The algorithm is so ridiculously over fitted.
raydev 2y ago
TikTok provides the "human" element that IG and YouTube do not. On IG and YouTube the algos are shoving "creators" in my face, which is fine sometimes. But TikTok surfaces randos whose only followers are their own family members, and they happen to be talking about something unique or funny in one video out of dozens that got only 2 views. On IG and YouTube, the algos give me brightly lit faces, brightly lit homes, professional editing. On TikTok, I get people speaking quietly from their bed, or their recliner in what is obviously a trailer, or in the passenger seat of their car at Safeway, double-chinned and sleepy-eyed, saying something hilarious or just talking about their day or maybe sharing something they just realized. On IG and YT, I get a video of someone falling on their face plastered with poorly worded captions and one or more logos for some social media company. On TikTok, I see the original video of that person falling on their face from the original account, and if you go to their account it's obviously just a real person who made a funny video by accident one time. All the things that IG and YT force on me certainly exist on TikTok too, and you can surround yourself with that content if you like. But if you don't want that kind of content, TikTok lets you choose. IG and YT don't give you that choice.

scinerio 2y ago

Not a content creator and use it regularly. My algorithm is mostly silly stuff, music, etc. I'm not convinced there's a discernible risk to national security, and as someone with a lot of libertarian views, I think the ban is an overstep by the US government. The "sticky"-ness is real, but many will flock to the TikTok copies in other platforms like Instagram, Facebook, X, anyway. Regardless, I enjoy the platform. It's fun to reference the viral sounds/trends on the platform with other friends that use it.

Ateoto 2y ago

I'm pretty upset about it honestly. TikTok's algorithm has always done a fantastic job of providing interesting clips in a way that Facebook and Instagram has never been able to provide. I will say that upon a new account, it's mostly garbage, but it quickly learned what I was interested in and what I would tend to engage with. It also does this while showing me considerably fewer ads than the meta platforms.

sillysaurusx 2y ago
Seconded. My experiences were similar. That said, the algorithm got noticeably worse after 2021. Maybe because of the TikTok shop. I’ve categorized around 3,000 clips into different collections (with 600+ being in “educational”) but that fell off over the last few years. I would be a lot more upset about the ban if they had maintained quality, but now I’m like well, whatever.
Arkhadia 2y ago
Serious question: Why is the back end learning of so many human habits not creepy to you? It was weaponized once with how they created armies of teenagers who called their local representatives and made threats.
- cma 2y ago
  They weaponized the backend to drive that by injecting in recommendations for that inorganically, or that was something that emerged from having a recommender system backend?
- chimeracoder 2y ago
  > It was weaponized once with how they created armies of teenagers who called their local representatives and made threats. This is an extremely dramatic way of saying "they had a banner in the app which informed users of a policy that affected them and directed them to contact their representatives", something which plenty of other social media platforms, such as Reddit have done without controversy.
- raydev 2y ago
  > Why is the back end learning of so many human habits not creepy to you? In the context of banning TikTok for this particular reason, then X.com, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube are all equally guilty in how they both boost and suppress different types of content based on interference from local government.

alienthrowaway 2y ago

> I was really surprised that my daughters (avid teenage TikTok users) are much more relieved than mad. A sense of relief may be a coping mechanism. I've heard laid-off colleagues inform me they felt relief in the immediate aftermath; granted, the lay-offs were pre-announced before they communicated who would be "impacted", and it was at a high-pressure environment; but the human mind sometimes reacts in unexpected ways to loss outside of one's control. Rationalization is a mechanism for ego defense.

IAmGraydon 2y ago
It doesn't occur to you that they may be relieved because they know they're addicted and are glad that someone is going to step in and give them the help they can't give themselves?
- phito 2y ago
  So many people in this thread trying to justify their addiction.
- alienthrowaway 2y ago
  > It doesn't occur to you... It did occur to me, which is why I couched my statement with "may". Though your framing is still compatible with "rationalization" I found the tone of your comment needlessly - and weirdly combative.

spandrew 2y ago

They'll be on RedNote within 2 weeks. Other's have said it; but TikTok was such a nice format for media. It emphasized what the creator can provide its users; what content was legit; entertaining, informative, etc. Whereas Instagram and FB are more about personal "branding". You post the best version of yourself and it's rewarded with engagement. Where on TikTok the emphasis is on the content; even creators I follow and have seen dozens of videos on I couldn't tell you what their account name was. On TikTok you put up or you were shut up. The experience, in the end, was always on point for shortform content. Nothing else like it exists; and I don't think American tech can make it because they benefit too much from being ad networks. Maybe YouTube shorts.

bearjaws 2y ago
> what content was legit scrolls past 10 temu adds for clearly pirated retro game consoles, same comment 9 times "oh if you bought X last week I feel sorry its not 50% off!!!"
toddmorey 2y ago
I've heard the algorithms for YouTube shorts are much worse. Most people have said the best thing about TikTok is how well it learns the content you want to see.
- pxc 2y ago
  This is true. Many people I know have uninstalled TikTok because it is too addictive, but no one ever does that with YouTube shorts.
  - cyberlurker 2y ago
    Wrong. YouTube shorts ruined the app for me. No way to disable them.
    - theshrike79 2y ago
      Not even with parental controls. I'm kinda OK with my kids using Youtube, but I don't want them getting sucked into the infinite pool of shit that is Shorts. But I can't block it even with parental controls.

Karrot_Kream 2y ago

I have a lot of Japanese friends and travel between Japan and here frequently. TikTok is huge in Japan and a lot of my For You Page is content trending in Japanese spheres. I don't live in Japan so being able to plug into Japanese media is a very, very convenient thing. I'll probably continue trying to use the app if possible since I mostly connect with Japanese content, but I will say there's also a fun world of Japanese creators who straddle the English and Japanese speaking words who are about to lose an outlet to the English speaking world, and I feel really bad for that too. The "algorithm" is also just so much better than Reels and others. I spent an afternoon of PTO training my algorithm a couple years ago and it's been great ever since. My partner and I share TikToks with each other all the time and. we shape each other's algorithm and interests. Reels fixates too much on your follows and Youtube Shorts is honestly a garbage experience. Both platforms really reward creators building "brands" around their content rather than just being authentic or silly. I treat Reels as the place for polished creators or local businesses who are trying to sell me something and TikTok as the place for content. I find that I get a lot less ragebait surfaced to me than I do on other platforms, though I admit my partner gets more than I do. We both skip those videos quickly and that has helped keep this stuff off our FYP. An important thing to remember is TikTok was one of the first platforms that was opt-in for short-form content. Both Reels and Shorts was foisted upon users who had different expectations of the network and as such had to deal with the impedance mismatch of the existing network and users who didn't want short-form content. TikTok's entire value proposition is short-form content.

qingcharles 2y ago
I second this. I spend a few minutes each evening watching random people out and about in Japan, Korea, China as it is fascinating to learn about foreign cultures in such a direct way. Just yesterday I learned about the palm scanners some stores in China have as a payment system.

glenstein 2y ago

I've found something like a very efficient sorting into communities of shared interest, and something egalitarian in being able to see people with 0 views and get reactions from them. It's by contrast to say, Youtube and X, where The Algorithm (tm) sustains a central Nile river of dominant creators and you're either in it or you're not. That said, I think the political questions are rightly the dominant ones in this convo and those color my lived experience of it.

onemoresoop 2y ago
You’re right about youtube shoving the main river on you but recently discovered a lot of niche youtubers with very few views in my areas of interest. I just wish I had more control in what the feed returns, for example if im irked by a certain content I should be able to escape it with a click. But thats not how youtube or facebook/instagram work. Content is targeted at you behind the scenes based on an accidental encounter you had in the past with some content and there’s no way to disable that. Don’t recommend this channel/page doesn’t work because there’s an army of channels/pages that push the same content on you. This is very powerful for paid propaganda

eddythompson80 2y ago

TikTok has replaced Reddit for me (I can expand more on why I stopped using Reddit, but it's not related to TikTok) in terms of "checking what's up on the internet" or as Reddit would put it "Checking the homepage of the internet". I trust TikTok's "algorithm" to give me quick and entertaining short-bits about what's going on, what's interesting, etc. It learns what I'm into effortlessly, and I appreciate how every now and then it would throw in a completely new (to me) genera or type of content to check out. Whenever I open it, there is a feed that's been curated to me about things I'm interested in checking out, few new things that are hit or miss (and I like that), and very few infuriating/stupid (to me) things. Its recommendation engine is the best I have used. It's baffling how shitty YouTube's algorithm is. I discover YouTube channels I'm into form TikTok. Sometimes I'd discover new (or old) interesting videos from YouTube channels I already follow from TikTok first. For example, I follow Veritasium and 3Blue1Brown on YouTube but I certainly haven't watched their full back catalog. YouTube NEVER recommends to me anything from their back catalog. When I'm in the mood, I have to go to their channel, scroll for a while, then try to find a video I'd be interested in from the thumbnail/title. And once I do, YouTube will re-recommend to me all the videos I have already watched from them (which are already their best performing videos). Rarely would it recommend something new from them. On TikTok, it frequently would pull clips from old Veritasium or 3Blue1Brown videos for me which I'd get hooked after watching 10 seconds, then hob on YouTube to watch the full video. It's insane how bad YouTube recommendation algorithm is. Literally the entire "recommended" section of youtube is stuff I have watched before, or stuff with exactly the same content as things I have watched before. Here is how I find their recommendation algorithm to work: YouTube: Oh you watched (and liked) a brisket smoking video? Here is that video again, and 10 other "brisket smoking videos". These are just gonna be stuck on your home page for the next couple of weeks now. You need to click on them one by one and mark "not interested" in which case you're clearly not interested in BBQ or cooking. Here are the last 10 videos you watched, and some MrBeast videos and some random YouTube drama videos. TikTok: Oh you watched (and liked) a brisket smoking video? How about another BBQ video, a video about smokers and their models, some videos about cookouts and BBQ side dishes, a video about a DIY smoker, another about a DIY backyard project for hosting BBQ cookouts, a video about how smoke flavors food, a video about the history of BBQ in the south, a video about a BBQ joint in your city (or where ever my VPN is connected from), etc. And if you're not interested in any of those particular types, it learns from how long you spend watching the video and would branch more or less in that direction in the future. Another example is search. Search for "sci fi books recommendations": YouTube: Here are 3 videos about Sci-Fi books. Here are 4 brisket smoking videos. Here are some lost hikers videos (because you watched a video about a lost hiker 3 weeks ago). Here are 3 videos about a breaking story in the news. Here are 2 videos about sci-fi books, and another 8 about brisket. TikTok: Here is a feed of videos about Sci-Fi books. And I'll make sure to throw in sci-fi book videos into your curated feed every now and then to see if you're interested.

scarecrowbob 2y ago

I'm pretty upset about it and I am not a creator. I'm not just upset because I have a general dislike of being told I'm an idiotic, addicted, communist stooge who is easily brainwashed. I am used to folks telling me that- it started when I was writing anti-war editorials in the early oughts, so there is nothing new in that. What I regret is that I have been following a number of quite-good political discussions on the platform, with a nicely diverse group of interlocutors. While the discussion generally leans far left, there are many flavors of that left: not a lot of tankies, mostly just people between "dirt bag left" and "black panther party", lots of women, BIPOC, trans folks, academics, working people, indigenous folks, queer folks of all stripes, activists, and folks who just don't like authority. Those conversations had been very hard to come by on Yt, Ig, or Fb. I think it's the response format for videos. I don't think it's worth bothering to speculate about other reasons, though I did note that several legitimate left news sources were shuttered in 2020 when Meta and Tw started their political purge. Anyhow, I know that folks in the US have very little regard for political autonomy, so I am not surprised that this happens, and compared to the carceral state and the happy ecocide of the planet this is a very little thing. But I will still miss it.

Eextra953 2y ago
My fyp was very similar. I'm going to miss having so many like minded folks to hear from and interact with. I don't think any other app has given me this same sense of community and to some degree empowerment. I am very left leaning in my politics, I also happen to be a POC who is surrounded by apolitical friends. TikTok showed me that there are other folks just like me - that is a powerful and reassuring feeling.
- groggo 2y ago
  Same. I mean I didn't find quite the same type of community, but I did get exposed to content that was different than other platforms. Just weirder, more fun, more interesting. Definitely going to miss it if it goes away. It's unfortunate that more people can't see that it: 1. actually has some social value 2. banning it is a restriction on our freedom Obviously, it's 3. mostly junk and brain rot 4. a potential tool for Chinese influence and manipulation But I think we need to accept that 1 & 2 override 3 & 4. Honestly for 4, it's more important to have a widely used source that isn't necessarily subject to the same restrictions (legal or cultural) as US-based apps.

School-Cotton 2y ago

> Anyone here who's not a TikTok content creator reasonably upset about losing access to the platform? Can you tell me why it will sting for you? I like living in a country where the government does not get to decide what I'm allowed to read/watch/see. The TikTok ban chips away at that in a meaningful way. I value this above most other concerns, including vague worries about "Chinese spying".

lucifer2104 2y ago

technology changed our life. especially internet and smart phone impact a lot on social engagement between peoples. if people spend much time on internet or smart phones daily, if it is not tiktok, it will be something else. should we go back to non smart phone time? or even roll back to no internet time? maybe no electricity time. technology is just like a tool. how people use it matters not the technology itself can be evil. tiktok's algorithm helps speed up information delivery to the people who likes it. eventually it helps to form a community of people online who like similar thing or have similar options. people needs to be aware of the content on any platform has "survivorship bias". seeing couple of examples is not representing the whole.

lynndotpy 2y ago

I don't create for TikTok, I have never had a TikTok account, and I don't use TikTok, outside of being exposed to videos on other sites, or occasionally clicking a link. I had been exposed to DouYin before, but my first experience of TikTok in real life was someone at a party, holding their phone, exclaiming something along the lines of "I can't look away, it's so addictive." It was uncomfortable, and I'm aware of how fake this sounds, but it happened. But I think this is very bad. With Section 230 in crosshairs, EARN IT being reintroduced every year or two, and access to books and sites being fragmented across the US, things are very already bad, and have the potential to get much worse. TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship. Congress didn't just "ban TikTok", Congress banned its first social media. This is case law, this is precedent, this is a path for banning other social media apps. I think this is bad because I think this is the start of something new and something bad for the internet.

gnkyfrg 2y ago
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esperent 2y ago
> TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship I don't see it that way. I'm not American and I've never used TikTok. I don't see any censorship here. This is more of an ongoing power struggle between the US and China, tit for tat after they banned American apps. Censorship would mean that they're banning actual content. That's not what's happening here. Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Banning a platform is not censorship. It's like banning a book publishing house but allowing any other publisher to continue publishing their books. It does appear that there is actual censorship, in the form of book banning, happening in several US states recently. But this ain't that.
- starfezzy 2y ago
  > Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it. Sure, you can repost TikTok content anywhere, but what people really notice when they recognize that tiktok's algorithm is unique—without realizing it—is that it's apolitical by default, and not-western when politics come into play. It actually shows you what you're interested in, instead of force-feeding western progressive/consumerist messaging and banning half its users for wrongthink. So yeah, post the same content on Reels/Shorts if you want, but if it doesn't align with the western narrative, good luck with the shadowbans and downranking.

gnkyfrg 2y ago

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aryonoco 2y ago

My wife, well into her 30s, initially got an inkling that she might be on the Autism spectrum after being exposed to TiKTok videos of high masking, high functioning women who talked about their Autism. After many years and dozens of tests and questionnaires and appointments with speech pathologists, occupational therapists and psychiatrists, she was formally diagnosed last year with Level 2 Autism (there are 3 levels here in Australia). After years of being misdiagnosed with various forms of anxiety or depression (and none of those drugs or treatments being helpful for her), this has been life changing. So much of her early childhood and past life now suddenly makes sense. We used to be very bad at diagnosing autism in girls

jrflowers 2y ago

I personally like the stupid time wasting app. There is a little pig on there that they dress up in little outfits and you can watch it eat treats

jeffhuys 2y ago
Sigh…
- jrflowers 2y ago
  What? If you do not like the pig the app also has live streams of people cutting their own bangs. Something for everyone!
  - wruza 2y ago
    I know you’re joking, but this is not true. There’s something short and stupid for everyone, but not something interesting for everyone at all. Last couple years I spent my media time watching trackmania and noita for the most part. These are just-games, but with rich interesting worlds behind them. I can’t imagine spending all this time watching a pig or people cutting bangs or someone lipsyncing or talking nonsense. Not judging, but it’s such mind disgracing activity in my view.
    - neaden 2y ago
      "Not judging, but it’s such mind disgracing activity in my view." Just because you say not judging doesn't mean you are not judging.
      - wruza 2y ago
        Sometimes it’s hard to discern the line between judging and sharing a personal opinion, because even an opinion may hurt.
        jrflowers 2y ago

tomjen3 2y ago

I don't have an account, but how about this: I don't want the government to ban websites or apps in general, and certainly not for who owns them. The internet was supposed to be a global thing, where it didn't matter who you were and everyone could connect to everyone. That is the internet I grew up with.

rzz3 2y ago

Not a content creator, but a TikTok user for several years. I really feel like the app changed my life. It opened my world to new cultures and ideas, brought me out of my comfort zone, introduced me to several real life friends. I made big changes in my life as a direct result of TikTok and have improved my life and health significantly as a result. I’ll be really sad to see it go.

eleveriven 2y ago
Just out of curiosity, how did the app improve your life?
- rzz3 2y ago
  In no particular order: - I learned a new language and moved to a new country, as a direct result of what I saw and learned from TikTok. - I learned about countless new cultures from all over the world. - I learned new perspectives about domestic and international politics. - I met a variety of real, online friends and 3 real life friends who I actually spend time with in person. - I was able to learn how to express my emotions in better and more constructive ways. - I learned a ton of random things about every subject matter I can think of—from AI and programming, to psychology, to cooking, to mechanical and electrical engineering, history, medicine, science, etc. As a generalist it’s very important to me, as I’m able to connect information well across diverse subject areas. - I discovered the majority of the music I listen to these days. - I started traveling the world, learning how to do it safely and finding new destinations I didn’t previously know anything about. The list really goes on and on, but these are some of the quick highlights that come to mind. Thanks for asking!
  - eleveriven 2y ago
    Thank you for sharing! It sounds like you’ve found a meaningful corner of TikTok! And your response helped me to realize those positive aspects

deleted 2y ago

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fudged71 2y ago

As a millennial, I use TikTok as a “normie” version of Reddit. The algorithm has a similar vibe. It puts content in front of me that I’m likely to be interested in, exposing me to quite a diverse set of content. The instagram/youtube algorithms don’t come anywhere close in comparison. It’s a guilty pleasure in the dopamine sense, but also surfaces a lot of informative content if you bias towards that! I suppose it depends how you use it.

popcalc 2y ago
Reddit is normie.

azernik 2y ago

It's annoying to have to take the time to train my recommender on a different platform. I'm sure I could get YouTube Shorts to eventually give me an equivalently pleasant experience, it's just a pain.

matwood 2y ago

I don't really care either way. I used TikTok and uninstalled it since I found myself watching more than doing. Even if you curate your algorithm to 'good' stuff, it's still just consuming.

jasonlotito 2y ago

I'll try to directly relate this to something you are familiar with. > Can you tell me why it will sting for you? Imagine Hacker News without the comments. > The only thing I get sent from TikTok are dances and silly memes That's like saying Hacker News is just old links about useless stuff from other parts of the internet.

senordevnyc 2y ago
Hacker News without the comments sounds pretty lame
- bookofjoe 2y ago
  Hacker News without the comments? 0 interest

ok123456 2y ago

All the other content recommendation systems force you into a ghetto and are highly auto-regressive. They only show you content like they already showed you, so you will never be exposed to new things. This hampers discovery, and you end up with only a few winner-take-all accounts with mass appeal and mass distribution (e.g., "Mr. Beast") who are broadly not interesting or specialized. TikTok is more stochastic and is more likely to give wider circulation to niche and esoteric subjects. Booktok could never happen on YouTube shorts or Instagram. Using those other platforms is like shouting into the wind. You could have videos up for years and not get 50 views. With TikTok, a random video could be seen by 250k people. A corollary to other systems being so auto-regressive is that they are much more dangerous for vulnerable people. If Instagram decides to start showing you extremist or otherwise political content, that is all you will see. This is the "rabbit hole" effect that people have commented upon. This doesn't happen to the same degree with TikTok; while this content can be recommended, it's not all that will be recommended.

oliyoung 2y ago
Think you nailed TikTok's magic sauce, that algorithm finely balances the ghettoization of most traditional social networks and the "you might like this" randomness that feels like it's two-steps of interest away from your usual feed. Any regular user will see that pattern of 10-15 things that fit a pattern, and then a couple of very clear pieces of tracer content that expands and reinforces your own FYP. It shows an understanding and adoption of risk that most western social networks don't have, while they're too invested in supporting and reinforcing the status quo, TikTok has always felt a little more willing to find the edges of/expand your interests.
Sammi 2y ago
Each and every time I open youtube I think "there surely must be other stuff on here", but yt has me so doggedly pigeonholed they won't let me ever see anything outside of what I've watches in the last two days. The algorithm is so ridiculously over fitted.

raydev 2y ago

TikTok provides the "human" element that IG and YouTube do not. On IG and YouTube the algos are shoving "creators" in my face, which is fine sometimes. But TikTok surfaces randos whose only followers are their own family members, and they happen to be talking about something unique or funny in one video out of dozens that got only 2 views. On IG and YouTube, the algos give me brightly lit faces, brightly lit homes, professional editing. On TikTok, I get people speaking quietly from their bed, or their recliner in what is obviously a trailer, or in the passenger seat of their car at Safeway, double-chinned and sleepy-eyed, saying something hilarious or just talking about their day or maybe sharing something they just realized. On IG and YT, I get a video of someone falling on their face plastered with poorly worded captions and one or more logos for some social media company. On TikTok, I see the original video of that person falling on their face from the original account, and if you go to their account it's obviously just a real person who made a funny video by accident one time. All the things that IG and YT force on me certainly exist on TikTok too, and you can surround yourself with that content if you like. But if you don't want that kind of content, TikTok lets you choose. IG and YT don't give you that choice.