3 ms·

> And most people speak (or at least understand) English. This is wrong. In cities where there's a lot of tourism, they might understand. Most Swiss people onl

by Pooge 2y ago

> And most people speak (or at least understand) English. This is wrong. In cities where there's a lot of tourism, they might understand. Most Swiss people only speak their local languages (German or French). As for those living in Ticino, they tend to be better polyglots.

Lukas_Skywalker 2y ago
That doesn‘t match my experience. About 40% of all Swiss inhabitants speak English at least once a week [1]. Anecdotally, I can't think of a single acquaintance younger than 50 years old that doesn't speak fluently. Everyone in Switzerland learns English at school for at least five years. Most even for seven years. Some of my German speaking friends even talk in English to French speaking people, even when both have learned the other‘s respective language at school. [1]: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/bevoelkerung/sprachen-religionen/sprachen.html https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/bevoelkerun...
- Pooge 2y ago
  > Everyone in Switzerland learns English at school for at least five years. Most even for seven years. We learn the other's respective language for 7 years, too. Yet, as you pointed out, people speak in English because there is no willingness to learn and apply the other's language. Some of my friends speak English fluently, but I have a very hard bias as I work in IT. My whole family doesn't speak any language other than French. Most of the people I've been to school with don't come close to speaking English casually. None would watch an English content creator. Due to the shared heritage between the English and German languages, perhaps it's different in the German-speaking region. If you ask someone slightly complicated English questions, they might not be completely lost - after all, some words share the same etymology. But Switzerland is absolutely not an English-speaking country at all.
  - Lukas_Skywalker 2y ago
    No, I wouldn't say it's an English-speaking country either. No one talks in English to their peers that are from the same language region. But yes, I can mostly speak of the German-speaking part. People generally have little problems switching to English, and are used to speaking as well.
    - Pooge 2y ago
      Would you say this is also true of Swiss living in more rural areas? And among older people, too?
      - Lukas_Skywalker 2y ago
        This is just a feeling, and I am still speaking for the German part only, but I think age matters less than urban/rural. Many older people I know have no problems communicating in English when they‘re abroad. Would be interesting to have the BFS statistics split by age group and region as well…
- elliotec 2y ago
  Where in that link does it mention that? I read through the whole thing, and what I saw is wildly lower than you said.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I met plenty of people in Lausanne who didn't speak English, or at least didn't want to speak English (it is hard to tell, and anyways, it doesn't really matter). I visited Montreal shortly after my 2 year stay in Lausanne ended and I was surprised on how multi-lingual people were there.
- lcouturi 2y ago
  Well, it makes sense. Canada still has a significant English-speaking majority. Even if Québec in isolation has a French-speaking majority, there's a very large incentive for French-speaking citizens to learn English because their province is surrounded by primarily Anglophone regions. There are also other factors at play. Montréal has a fairly large community of native English speakers and receives a lot of tourism from Anglophone Canada and the United States due to its status as the largest city in Québec (and second largest in Canada). It also gets a lot of immigrants, many of which are (at least initially) more proficient in English than in French. I can't say I'm entirely familiar with the situation in Switzerland, but as far as I know the country has four official languages, none of which are English. It also doesn't border any English-speaking countries. It seems English is mostly used as a lingua franca for communication between citizens who don't otherwise share a language rather than due to the direct presence of native Anglophones. Also, Romansh aside, all national languages of Switzerland (French, German and Italian) are spoken in areas that directly border a country where that language is the national language (France, Italy, Germany/Austria). With Switzerland being in the Schengen Area, its linguistic regions may be considered to be part of a much larger individual linguistic communities, which I feel may also diminish the need to learn other languages.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    > I can't say I'm entirely familiar with the situation in Switzerland, but as far as I know the country has four official languages, none of which are English. The language of French Switzerland is French. You'll never hear German, Italian, or Romansch. If you only spoke German and not French or English, you really couldn't live there very effectively (only places like Bern or Basel are truly multi-lingual), yes you'll get your official docs in German but then what? I assume the same is true in German speaking Switzerland, and I have no idea about Italian Switzerland. If a Swiss German and Swiss French met for coffee, what language do you think they would wind up speaking? Perhaps English if neither had comfortable fluency in the other language. Not to take away from your point, but English can get you really far in this world.
paulg2222 2y ago
It is not German, but Alemannic.
- Pooge 2y ago
  I'm sorry if this sounds offensive or derogatory. But as a Swiss person, I've never heard anyone call it "Alemannic". Whether it be foreigners, Swiss-French speakers or Swiss-German speakers, everyone called it "German".
  - slater 2y ago
    Probably making a distinction between high german and swiss german. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German
  - computerthings 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German > Swiss German (Standard German: Schweizerdeutsch, Alemannic German: Schwiizerdütsch, Schwyzerdütsch, Schwiizertüütsch, Schwizertitsch Mundart, and others; Romansh: Svizzers Tudestg) is any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy bordering Switzerland. All Swiss-German is an Alemannic dialect, not all Alemannic dialects are Swiss-German, is how I'd interpret that.
    - atq2119 2y ago
      Right, but it's still German. So the statement "It's not German, but Alemannic" is just plain false.
pjmlp 2y ago
English is quite common to speak among Swiss from different cantons, since they usually stop caring about the other official languages after the compulsory school classes. I find kind of ironic that I have better fluency between the official languages than many of my Swiss friends and work colleagues.

by Pooge 2y ago

Lukas_Skywalker 2y ago

That doesn‘t match my experience. About 40% of all Swiss inhabitants speak English at least once a week [1]. Anecdotally, I can't think of a single acquaintance younger than 50 years old that doesn't speak fluently. Everyone in Switzerland learns English at school for at least five years. Most even for seven years. Some of my German speaking friends even talk in English to French speaking people, even when both have learned the other‘s respective language at school. [1]: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/bevoelkerung/sprachen-religionen/sprachen.html https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/bevoelkerun...

Pooge 2y ago
> Everyone in Switzerland learns English at school for at least five years. Most even for seven years. We learn the other's respective language for 7 years, too. Yet, as you pointed out, people speak in English because there is no willingness to learn and apply the other's language. Some of my friends speak English fluently, but I have a very hard bias as I work in IT. My whole family doesn't speak any language other than French. Most of the people I've been to school with don't come close to speaking English casually. None would watch an English content creator. Due to the shared heritage between the English and German languages, perhaps it's different in the German-speaking region. If you ask someone slightly complicated English questions, they might not be completely lost - after all, some words share the same etymology. But Switzerland is absolutely not an English-speaking country at all.
- Lukas_Skywalker 2y ago
  No, I wouldn't say it's an English-speaking country either. No one talks in English to their peers that are from the same language region. But yes, I can mostly speak of the German-speaking part. People generally have little problems switching to English, and are used to speaking as well.
  - Pooge 2y ago
    Would you say this is also true of Swiss living in more rural areas? And among older people, too?
    - Lukas_Skywalker 2y ago
      This is just a feeling, and I am still speaking for the German part only, but I think age matters less than urban/rural. Many older people I know have no problems communicating in English when they‘re abroad. Would be interesting to have the BFS statistics split by age group and region as well…
elliotec 2y ago
Where in that link does it mention that? I read through the whole thing, and what I saw is wildly lower than you said.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

I met plenty of people in Lausanne who didn't speak English, or at least didn't want to speak English (it is hard to tell, and anyways, it doesn't really matter). I visited Montreal shortly after my 2 year stay in Lausanne ended and I was surprised on how multi-lingual people were there.

lcouturi 2y ago
Well, it makes sense. Canada still has a significant English-speaking majority. Even if Québec in isolation has a French-speaking majority, there's a very large incentive for French-speaking citizens to learn English because their province is surrounded by primarily Anglophone regions. There are also other factors at play. Montréal has a fairly large community of native English speakers and receives a lot of tourism from Anglophone Canada and the United States due to its status as the largest city in Québec (and second largest in Canada). It also gets a lot of immigrants, many of which are (at least initially) more proficient in English than in French. I can't say I'm entirely familiar with the situation in Switzerland, but as far as I know the country has four official languages, none of which are English. It also doesn't border any English-speaking countries. It seems English is mostly used as a lingua franca for communication between citizens who don't otherwise share a language rather than due to the direct presence of native Anglophones. Also, Romansh aside, all national languages of Switzerland (French, German and Italian) are spoken in areas that directly border a country where that language is the national language (France, Italy, Germany/Austria). With Switzerland being in the Schengen Area, its linguistic regions may be considered to be part of a much larger individual linguistic communities, which I feel may also diminish the need to learn other languages.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  > I can't say I'm entirely familiar with the situation in Switzerland, but as far as I know the country has four official languages, none of which are English. The language of French Switzerland is French. You'll never hear German, Italian, or Romansch. If you only spoke German and not French or English, you really couldn't live there very effectively (only places like Bern or Basel are truly multi-lingual), yes you'll get your official docs in German but then what? I assume the same is true in German speaking Switzerland, and I have no idea about Italian Switzerland. If a Swiss German and Swiss French met for coffee, what language do you think they would wind up speaking? Perhaps English if neither had comfortable fluency in the other language. Not to take away from your point, but English can get you really far in this world.

paulg2222 2y ago

It is not German, but Alemannic.

Pooge 2y ago
I'm sorry if this sounds offensive or derogatory. But as a Swiss person, I've never heard anyone call it "Alemannic". Whether it be foreigners, Swiss-French speakers or Swiss-German speakers, everyone called it "German".
- slater 2y ago
  Probably making a distinction between high german and swiss german. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German
- computerthings 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German > Swiss German (Standard German: Schweizerdeutsch, Alemannic German: Schwiizerdütsch, Schwyzerdütsch, Schwiizertüütsch, Schwizertitsch Mundart, and others; Romansh: Svizzers Tudestg) is any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy bordering Switzerland. All Swiss-German is an Alemannic dialect, not all Alemannic dialects are Swiss-German, is how I'd interpret that.
  - atq2119 2y ago
    Right, but it's still German. So the statement "It's not German, but Alemannic" is just plain false.

pjmlp 2y ago

English is quite common to speak among Swiss from different cantons, since they usually stop caring about the other official languages after the compulsory school classes. I find kind of ironic that I have better fluency between the official languages than many of my Swiss friends and work colleagues.