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I liked the first one from Villeneuve because for the most part it stuck to the story but the second one veered off into its own story. I know its nerdy but I

I liked the first one from Villeneuve because for the most part it stuck to the story but the second one veered off into its own story. I know its nerdy but I absolutely hate when movies of classic books think the story needs to be changed (I'm looking at you, Peter Jackson).

angry_moose 2y ago
I'm still reserving judgement. In a vacuum I don't love the changes he made to Part 2 but I can also see how they will make it flow much better into Part 3 than Dune > Dune Messiah ever did (that always felt disjointed to me); as well as make that story more compelling.
- andrewstuart 2y ago
  I wish just for once these directors had simply made the movie of the book and damn the consequences of what Hollywood thinks audiences want. The movies that directors such as Peter Jackson make are brilliantly done - if only the story wasn't hacked. And that's not even addressing the worst of the travesties such as Radagast the Brown being covered in bird shit and the dwarves in The Hobbit being a bunch of circus clowns.
  - jajko 2y ago
    Its often not directors defining pacing and length of the result, but producer/studio. A lot of bitter conflicts came up from this.
    - chefandy 2y ago
      This is the the most famous, if not the only instance of Lynch giving up control of the final edit. He seemed angry about the way it turned out.
      - andrewstuart 2y ago
        That's why the director is listed as "Alan Smithee" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Smithee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Smithee "Alan Smithee (also Allen Smithee) is an official pseudonym used by film directors who wish to disown a project."
        chefandy 2y ago
        Yeah. He seemed pretty torn up about it. I believe he said he “died a death” over it. Here’s more into for anyone interested. https://www.cinedump.com/reviews/2021/6/3/dune-alan-smithee-cut-1984 https://www.cinedump.com/reviews/2021/6/3/dune-alan-smithee-...
  - wbl 2y ago
    What works in books often doesn't work on screen and vice versa. They are different media.
    - dpig_ 2y ago
      Agreed. The difference between a book and a film is that they are completely different things. You can't just graft a story from one directly onto another and expect results.
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > What works in books often doesn't work on screen and vice versa. They are different media. Not really. The biggest issue is time. As far as i noticed, one needs 2 hours of movie for 100 pages of a book. Anything below this (fitting 400 pages in 2 hours) is art. That's why Lynch's version is better.
    - sideshowb 2y ago
      Exactly For example, 2001 was a great movie but Clarke's worst book imo because he collaborated with Kubrick to write it for for big screen.
  - freejazz 2y ago
    It's not about what they "think audience want" it's about what film directors know works for visual storytelling as opposed to written storytelling.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cgriswald 2y ago
  I've tried to avoid spoilers below, but there are some minor ones for anyone reading who has never read Dune Messiah. I've read Dune at least a dozen times and followed up with Dune Messiah a few times. Sometimes I get that feeling of disjointedness. At its most extreme, Paul feels like a total stranger. (Stilgar might as well be a different characters; we see a changed character, but not the change.) Sometimes it feels like the books flows nicely despite the time jump. My best guess is that it depends on what aspects I've been most focused on while reading. I'm reserving judgment as well, but one part is really stuck in my craw. Although I felt like Villeneuve's Chani was generally stronger I felt the last scene made her look like a child and my first thought was that it was a weak attempt to set up a particular relationship for Part 3.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > but I can also see how they will make it flow much better into Part 3 than Dune > Dune Messiah Lynch could have made a Dune Messiah. Villeneuve is not able to express the mysticism.
spokaneplumb 2y ago
I appreciated the change to make Chani fill a role like Sherif Ali in the film Lawrence Of Arabia (the book Seven Pillars of Wisdom, if not the film, is plainly a huge influence on Herbert's Dune, and it's probably impossible for a director to film so much as a scene set in the desert without thinking of Lean's film). So much of Dune takes place inside people's heads that it's basically unfilmable if you don't make some changes. Plus, even with five hours of film, you're going to be cutting whole scenes from the book whether you want to or not. Lynch's solution was to make it a more straightforward hero's journey—and given the length of his film, and no expectation of sequels, I can't really blame him. Villeneuve had more space and so could tell a darker and more foreboding story, closer to the original, but still needed to externalize some of that internal struggle and foreshadowing, for which he used, especially, Chani. [EDIT] Oh and as for this: > I know its nerdy but I absolutely hate when movies of classic books think the story needs to be changed Every now and then such a deviation ends up being excellent as its own way, while still benefitting from the connection to the original and being better as an "adaptation" than an independent property. Verhoeven's Starship Troopers would be one of the more extreme examples of this kind of outcome. A gentler one might be Kubrick's The Shining.
msabalau 2y ago
Good adaptation is inherently transformative, despite nerd disgruntlement. Perhaps in a few years AI will have progressed to the point people can spin up their own literal version and see this for themselves.

angry_moose 2y ago

I'm still reserving judgement. In a vacuum I don't love the changes he made to Part 2 but I can also see how they will make it flow much better into Part 3 than Dune > Dune Messiah ever did (that always felt disjointed to me); as well as make that story more compelling.

andrewstuart 2y ago
I wish just for once these directors had simply made the movie of the book and damn the consequences of what Hollywood thinks audiences want. The movies that directors such as Peter Jackson make are brilliantly done - if only the story wasn't hacked. And that's not even addressing the worst of the travesties such as Radagast the Brown being covered in bird shit and the dwarves in The Hobbit being a bunch of circus clowns.
- jajko 2y ago
  Its often not directors defining pacing and length of the result, but producer/studio. A lot of bitter conflicts came up from this.
  - chefandy 2y ago
    This is the the most famous, if not the only instance of Lynch giving up control of the final edit. He seemed angry about the way it turned out.
    - andrewstuart 2y ago
      That's why the director is listed as "Alan Smithee" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Smithee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Smithee "Alan Smithee (also Allen Smithee) is an official pseudonym used by film directors who wish to disown a project."
      - chefandy 2y ago
        Yeah. He seemed pretty torn up about it. I believe he said he “died a death” over it. Here’s more into for anyone interested. https://www.cinedump.com/reviews/2021/6/3/dune-alan-smithee-cut-1984 https://www.cinedump.com/reviews/2021/6/3/dune-alan-smithee-...
- wbl 2y ago
  What works in books often doesn't work on screen and vice versa. They are different media.
  - dpig_ 2y ago
    Agreed. The difference between a book and a film is that they are completely different things. You can't just graft a story from one directly onto another and expect results.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > What works in books often doesn't work on screen and vice versa. They are different media. Not really. The biggest issue is time. As far as i noticed, one needs 2 hours of movie for 100 pages of a book. Anything below this (fitting 400 pages in 2 hours) is art. That's why Lynch's version is better.
  - sideshowb 2y ago
    Exactly For example, 2001 was a great movie but Clarke's worst book imo because he collaborated with Kubrick to write it for for big screen.
- freejazz 2y ago
  It's not about what they "think audience want" it's about what film directors know works for visual storytelling as opposed to written storytelling.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cgriswald 2y ago
I've tried to avoid spoilers below, but there are some minor ones for anyone reading who has never read Dune Messiah. I've read Dune at least a dozen times and followed up with Dune Messiah a few times. Sometimes I get that feeling of disjointedness. At its most extreme, Paul feels like a total stranger. (Stilgar might as well be a different characters; we see a changed character, but not the change.) Sometimes it feels like the books flows nicely despite the time jump. My best guess is that it depends on what aspects I've been most focused on while reading. I'm reserving judgment as well, but one part is really stuck in my craw. Although I felt like Villeneuve's Chani was generally stronger I felt the last scene made her look like a child and my first thought was that it was a weak attempt to set up a particular relationship for Part 3.
hulitu 2y ago
> but I can also see how they will make it flow much better into Part 3 than Dune > Dune Messiah Lynch could have made a Dune Messiah. Villeneuve is not able to express the mysticism.

spokaneplumb 2y ago

I appreciated the change to make Chani fill a role like Sherif Ali in the film Lawrence Of Arabia (the book Seven Pillars of Wisdom, if not the film, is plainly a huge influence on Herbert's Dune, and it's probably impossible for a director to film so much as a scene set in the desert without thinking of Lean's film). So much of Dune takes place inside people's heads that it's basically unfilmable if you don't make some changes. Plus, even with five hours of film, you're going to be cutting whole scenes from the book whether you want to or not. Lynch's solution was to make it a more straightforward hero's journey—and given the length of his film, and no expectation of sequels, I can't really blame him. Villeneuve had more space and so could tell a darker and more foreboding story, closer to the original, but still needed to externalize some of that internal struggle and foreshadowing, for which he used, especially, Chani. [EDIT] Oh and as for this: > I know its nerdy but I absolutely hate when movies of classic books think the story needs to be changed Every now and then such a deviation ends up being excellent as its own way, while still benefitting from the connection to the original and being better as an "adaptation" than an independent property. Verhoeven's Starship Troopers would be one of the more extreme examples of this kind of outcome. A gentler one might be Kubrick's The Shining.

msabalau 2y ago

Good adaptation is inherently transformative, despite nerd disgruntlement. Perhaps in a few years AI will have progressed to the point people can spin up their own literal version and see this for themselves.