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Disrupting access with your physical presence is not a use of force. Without peaceful protests, people will resort to violence more often.

by debo_ 2y ago

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
You're importing protest tactics developed for use against governments and large corporations into a context where they don't make any sense. There, this legalistic distinction between "force" and "disruption" is quite important, because ensuring you don't cross the line to "force" greatly decreases the legitimacy of any violent response. It doesn't matter at FOSDEM, because FOSDEM is not going to hire goons to beat you up regardless of what you do.
- debo_ 2y ago
  I don't fully understand your reply. Peaceful protests have existed for a long while before corporations did, for many different causes. They weren't always existential, nor were they always directed at the state. I have participated in community events where venue security decided they had to forcibly remove protesters from the premises, and in one case they contacted police for help. I qualify those as peaceful protests, and I believe security / police took reasonable measures to respond. No one was hurt, and everyone got the message, whether they agreed with it or not.
phkahler 2y ago
>> Disrupting access with your physical presence is not a use of force. When they try to move him, will that be use of force? When he tries to resist being moved will that not be forcibly staying?
pjfin123 2y ago
It absolutely is. If security is standing in front of the door to the stage are they going to push past? How is security supposed to remove them from the stage without using force? It's force that's designed to make the protesters look like they're the victim if anyone tries to get in their way. A peaceful protest would be standing outside on the sidewalk with signs.
mistralol 2y ago
Yes it is. You basically being a fascist by turning up using physical force to block free speech You invoke violence by disrupting somebody elses rights. You force people to use violence/force to remove you in order to maintain the right to free speech.

Disrupting access with your physical presence is not a use of force. Without peaceful protests, people will resort to violence more often.

by debo_ 2y ago

Disrupting access with your physical presence is not a use of force. Without peaceful protests, people will resort to violence more often.

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago

You're importing protest tactics developed for use against governments and large corporations into a context where they don't make any sense. There, this legalistic distinction between "force" and "disruption" is quite important, because ensuring you don't cross the line to "force" greatly decreases the legitimacy of any violent response. It doesn't matter at FOSDEM, because FOSDEM is not going to hire goons to beat you up regardless of what you do.

debo_ 2y ago
I don't fully understand your reply. Peaceful protests have existed for a long while before corporations did, for many different causes. They weren't always existential, nor were they always directed at the state. I have participated in community events where venue security decided they had to forcibly remove protesters from the premises, and in one case they contacted police for help. I qualify those as peaceful protests, and I believe security / police took reasonable measures to respond. No one was hurt, and everyone got the message, whether they agreed with it or not.

phkahler 2y ago

>> Disrupting access with your physical presence is not a use of force. When they try to move him, will that be use of force? When he tries to resist being moved will that not be forcibly staying?

pjfin123 2y ago

It absolutely is. If security is standing in front of the door to the stage are they going to push past? How is security supposed to remove them from the stage without using force? It's force that's designed to make the protesters look like they're the victim if anyone tries to get in their way. A peaceful protest would be standing outside on the sidewalk with signs.

mistralol 2y ago

Yes it is. You basically being a fascist by turning up using physical force to block free speech You invoke violence by disrupting somebody elses rights. You force people to use violence/force to remove you in order to maintain the right to free speech.