4 ms·

America invents it, China scales it, Europe regulates it.

s_dev 2y ago
At least someone is setting limits, Biden noted in his farewell address how America is being shaped by oligarchs which has echos of Eisenhower's farewell address warning of the forming of a 'military-industrial complex'.
- skummetmaelk 2y ago
  A speech he very well may have watched live.
bugtodiffer 2y ago
EU doesn't regulate enough IMO Apple is intentionally building a walled garden, which is a monopoly, which hurts our economy
- graemep 2y ago
  I agree. I get a nasty feeling that Apple is going to get away with a significant level of malicious compliance.
  - Longhanks 2y ago
    Compliance is a very binary thing in this matter. Either Apple complies, or they don't. It's the the EU'a job to fix the legislation, the legal system does not care about "not faithfully honoring the spirit/intent".
    - graemep 2y ago
      Which is why they will get away with it. It is why others people get away with similar behaviour in general in many jurisdictions. One legislation (which is slow to change and can be opposed by lobbying) catches up with one thing they do something new. Legislation can be worded more generally though, which helps. Regulators and judges can be given some discretion.
- xyzzy4747 2y ago
  If the customers prefer the walled garden then what’s the big deal? There are a number of other phones people can buy.
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    > If the customers prefer the walled garden then what’s the big deal? What the customers "prefer" and what's good for society are two very different questions. Anti-competitive behavior for one, like charging your direct competitors a 30% tax on their revenue because you own the platform, ensuring that you always come out ahead. > There are a number of other phones people can buy I don't understand this argument. For smartphones there's just one viable alternative which is itself trending in the walled garden direction. Google has been imposing additional restrictions for sideloading and adding various roadblocks that are slowly reeling back user freedoms. Both companies have a long list of customer-hostile behaviors and we have to pick one of them because interoperability is dead. Because we have to pick one, there's no real pressure to address those grievances on either side. It's always "just use Android" when we complain about Apple and "just use iOS" when we complain about Google. It's like that scene out of South park with the Cable company people rubbing their nipples listening to disgruntled customers.
    - dialup_sounds 2y ago
      There are at least a dozen companies making Android-based phones without Google. Are none of them "viable"? If not, whose fault is that?
      - flax 2y ago
        no. China. Next question.
        dialup_sounds 2y ago
        I was actually thinking of European companies like Volla and Fairphone given that the article is about the EU.
- ben_w 2y ago
  They've been building and tending the exact same pay-to-enter garden for 16 years, and even that garden initially — for a year — started with the equivalent of a padlock and "no-entry, no exceptions" sign on the gate itself because iOS was originally "just Apple's Apps, nobody else"*. Took a long while before Apple was big enough that people cared about the walled gardens, before "smart phones" as a market opportunity were dominant enough that them having one was even capable of hurting anyone's economy. * if you want to find exception, consider if the exception would also inherently reject the idea that what currently exists is a walled garden
coldpepper 2y ago
[flagged]
- imoverclocked 2y ago
  I’m an American. I’m not a pure materialist. The us vs them in your comment feels quasi-political and unfounded.
  - jjtheblunt 2y ago
    Maybe he would like to pretend he's surveyed 330+ million individuals and has assessed each with respect to materialism and ability to understand life.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    > The us vs them in your comment feels quasi-political and unfounded. Yeah, I've noticed there's a lot of virtue signaling form some Europeans, especially amongst the wealthier Germans, Benelux, and Nordics who have this "holier than though" posture on how much better they are than Americans(wide brush stroke here) for being non-materialistic (also copium for their low skilled wages), while coasting on generational wealth inherited from those before them. Well if you're so non-materialistic, why aren't dropping the prices of your housing so other people can actually afford to buy something instead of hoping to profiteer from them like those "greedy" Americans? As always, the people lecturing you on how money doesn't matter, are those who already have money. Just like those Germans laughing at Trump when he warned them about Germany's dependence on Russian energy in 2018. [1] They can be so smug and full of themselves sometimes. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKEycjREgPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKEycjREgPE
    - KerrAvon 2y ago
      I dunno — in the torrent of sludge that came and will come from the Trump administration, how is anyone supposed to distinguish an occasional nugget of truth?
      - 2y ago
nonethewiser 2y ago
America invents it, China copies it, Europe regulates it.
diggan 2y ago
Commonly echoed indeed :) When would we say this started, year-wise? As in the past, most of the technology/innovation came from Asia and Europe, and it seems not until after computers (or earlier perhaps?) did the US start to catch up with the rest of the world, but haven't really done a deep dive into it.
- eastbound 2y ago
  Cold war, USA propped up the Silicon Valley out of nothing, and now your social rules are all decided from there. If only the EU was busy doing that instead of cookie banners.
  - diggan 2y ago
    Well, until it doesn't, which seems to be edging closer and closer every day. Not sure where you are located, but as I'm within the EU, I'm quite happy with the approach we take, I'd prefer that to the capitalistic hellhole the US seems to be. If that means I have to decline cookies when I visit websites who misunderstand regulation, then so be it, totally worth it.

At least someone is setting limits, Biden noted in his farewell address how America is being shaped by oligarchs which has echos of Eisenhower's farewell address warning of the forming of a 'military-industrial complex'.

skummetmaelk 2y ago
A speech he very well may have watched live.

bugtodiffer 2y ago

EU doesn't regulate enough IMO Apple is intentionally building a walled garden, which is a monopoly, which hurts our economy

graemep 2y ago
I agree. I get a nasty feeling that Apple is going to get away with a significant level of malicious compliance.
- Longhanks 2y ago
  Compliance is a very binary thing in this matter. Either Apple complies, or they don't. It's the the EU'a job to fix the legislation, the legal system does not care about "not faithfully honoring the spirit/intent".
  - graemep 2y ago
    Which is why they will get away with it. It is why others people get away with similar behaviour in general in many jurisdictions. One legislation (which is slow to change and can be opposed by lobbying) catches up with one thing they do something new. Legislation can be worded more generally though, which helps. Regulators and judges can be given some discretion.
xyzzy4747 2y ago
If the customers prefer the walled garden then what’s the big deal? There are a number of other phones people can buy.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  > If the customers prefer the walled garden then what’s the big deal? What the customers "prefer" and what's good for society are two very different questions. Anti-competitive behavior for one, like charging your direct competitors a 30% tax on their revenue because you own the platform, ensuring that you always come out ahead. > There are a number of other phones people can buy I don't understand this argument. For smartphones there's just one viable alternative which is itself trending in the walled garden direction. Google has been imposing additional restrictions for sideloading and adding various roadblocks that are slowly reeling back user freedoms. Both companies have a long list of customer-hostile behaviors and we have to pick one of them because interoperability is dead. Because we have to pick one, there's no real pressure to address those grievances on either side. It's always "just use Android" when we complain about Apple and "just use iOS" when we complain about Google. It's like that scene out of South park with the Cable company people rubbing their nipples listening to disgruntled customers.
  - dialup_sounds 2y ago
    There are at least a dozen companies making Android-based phones without Google. Are none of them "viable"? If not, whose fault is that?
    - flax 2y ago
      no. China. Next question.
      - dialup_sounds 2y ago
        I was actually thinking of European companies like Volla and Fairphone given that the article is about the EU.
ben_w 2y ago
They've been building and tending the exact same pay-to-enter garden for 16 years, and even that garden initially — for a year — started with the equivalent of a padlock and "no-entry, no exceptions" sign on the gate itself because iOS was originally "just Apple's Apps, nobody else"*. Took a long while before Apple was big enough that people cared about the walled gardens, before "smart phones" as a market opportunity were dominant enough that them having one was even capable of hurting anyone's economy. * if you want to find exception, consider if the exception would also inherently reject the idea that what currently exists is a walled garden

coldpepper 2y ago

[flagged]

imoverclocked 2y ago
I’m an American. I’m not a pure materialist. The us vs them in your comment feels quasi-political and unfounded.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  Maybe he would like to pretend he's surveyed 330+ million individuals and has assessed each with respect to materialism and ability to understand life.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  > The us vs them in your comment feels quasi-political and unfounded. Yeah, I've noticed there's a lot of virtue signaling form some Europeans, especially amongst the wealthier Germans, Benelux, and Nordics who have this "holier than though" posture on how much better they are than Americans(wide brush stroke here) for being non-materialistic (also copium for their low skilled wages), while coasting on generational wealth inherited from those before them. Well if you're so non-materialistic, why aren't dropping the prices of your housing so other people can actually afford to buy something instead of hoping to profiteer from them like those "greedy" Americans? As always, the people lecturing you on how money doesn't matter, are those who already have money. Just like those Germans laughing at Trump when he warned them about Germany's dependence on Russian energy in 2018. [1] They can be so smug and full of themselves sometimes. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKEycjREgPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKEycjREgPE
  - KerrAvon 2y ago
    I dunno — in the torrent of sludge that came and will come from the Trump administration, how is anyone supposed to distinguish an occasional nugget of truth?
    - 2y ago

nonethewiser 2y ago

America invents it, China copies it, Europe regulates it.

diggan 2y ago

Commonly echoed indeed :) When would we say this started, year-wise? As in the past, most of the technology/innovation came from Asia and Europe, and it seems not until after computers (or earlier perhaps?) did the US start to catch up with the rest of the world, but haven't really done a deep dive into it.

eastbound 2y ago
Cold war, USA propped up the Silicon Valley out of nothing, and now your social rules are all decided from there. If only the EU was busy doing that instead of cookie banners.
- diggan 2y ago
  Well, until it doesn't, which seems to be edging closer and closer every day. Not sure where you are located, but as I'm within the EU, I'm quite happy with the approach we take, I'd prefer that to the capitalistic hellhole the US seems to be. If that means I have to decline cookies when I visit websites who misunderstand regulation, then so be it, totally worth it.