5 ms·

TikTok is NOT being banned. TikTok can continue unmodified if it transfers ownership to anyone outside China.

by breadwinner 2y ago

commandlinefan 2y ago
Ok, but I think that's as unconstitutional as a ban, by the same logic. But I'm not a lawyer.
- Salgat 2y ago
  How so? Generally speaking, foreign entities do not have the same constitutional guarantees as domestic with regard to laws concerning national security. Mind you, if this was a domestically owned platform, they would have a very strong case.
  - otterley 2y ago
    Even for domestic companies, we've used consent decrees to force them to divest businesses (Standard Oil, AT&T, etc.) after they've been held in violation of antitrust law.
Ateoto 2y ago
What happens if they refuse to transfer ownership?
- CubsFan1060 2y ago
  Sounds like they are preparing to shut down in the US. I don't think there's any reason they can't continue as a web app. I think American companies are barred from doing business with them. https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-will-reportedly-shut-down-its-app-completely-on-sunday-2000550589 https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-will-reportedly-shut-down-its-app...
otterley 2y ago
The ACLU is staffed with extremely competent First Amendment attorneys and yet they seem to be intentionally muddying the water about this. As a 1A scholar (and ACLU supporter) myself, I find it extremely frustrating.
- tines 2y ago
  I'm not so sure the ACLU is staffed with competent First Amendment attorneys any more. I've read a few articles citing Ira Glasser as being disappointed in the direction the modern ACLU is moving.
- 0xB31B1B 2y ago
  ACLU has dropped in quality significantly in the past 10 years IMO and this seems par for course for them since 2016.
paxys 2y ago
That's pointless misdirection. "I'll burn down your house unless you sell it to me for $1" See, that's not arson, because you always had a way out.
- otterley 2y ago
  This is a terrible analogy: 1/Selling something doesn't destroy it 2/You don't want to destroy it because you want to fetch a high price for it 3/Nobody's offering $1 for TikTok, and nobody expects ByteDance to accept $1 for it 4/A fair market price would make ByteDance whole
  - Hizonner 2y ago
    You think forced rushed sales don't depress market prices?
    - otterley 2y ago
      ByteDance has been aware that this was likely to happen for years, and legislation was signed in April 2024, giving them over six months to sell. There's nothing rushed about this at all. ByteDance is playing chicken, and they're looking ever likelier to lose this game.
      - nickthegreek 2y ago
        The US is currently 1/5th of their revenue I believe. It’s very US centric to call not being extorted out of your company by a foreign power a loss. I do believe the legislation passed is legally binding and will hold up to scrutiny by this Supreme Court. I am a person who consumes fun videos on TikTok while also recognizing the potential for a adversary to abuse. I found TikTok to be a way more joyful place than the meta properties too. I hope Meta doesn’t get to reap the benefits of this ban and I’ve seen a lot of genz who seem to be extremely anti zuck. It’s an unfortunate outcome, but I don’t see a strong 1A argument on this.
  - paxys 2y ago
oidar 2y ago
Like a Russian oligarch?

TikTok is NOT being banned. TikTok can continue unmodified if it transfers ownership to anyone outside China.

commandlinefan 2y ago

Ok, but I think that's as unconstitutional as a ban, by the same logic. But I'm not a lawyer.

Salgat 2y ago
How so? Generally speaking, foreign entities do not have the same constitutional guarantees as domestic with regard to laws concerning national security. Mind you, if this was a domestically owned platform, they would have a very strong case.
- otterley 2y ago
  Even for domestic companies, we've used consent decrees to force them to divest businesses (Standard Oil, AT&T, etc.) after they've been held in violation of antitrust law.

Ateoto 2y ago

What happens if they refuse to transfer ownership?

CubsFan1060 2y ago
Sounds like they are preparing to shut down in the US. I don't think there's any reason they can't continue as a web app. I think American companies are barred from doing business with them. https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-will-reportedly-shut-down-its-app-completely-on-sunday-2000550589 https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-will-reportedly-shut-down-its-app...

otterley 2y ago

The ACLU is staffed with extremely competent First Amendment attorneys and yet they seem to be intentionally muddying the water about this. As a 1A scholar (and ACLU supporter) myself, I find it extremely frustrating.

tines 2y ago
I'm not so sure the ACLU is staffed with competent First Amendment attorneys any more. I've read a few articles citing Ira Glasser as being disappointed in the direction the modern ACLU is moving.
0xB31B1B 2y ago
ACLU has dropped in quality significantly in the past 10 years IMO and this seems par for course for them since 2016.

paxys 2y ago

That's pointless misdirection. "I'll burn down your house unless you sell it to me for $1" See, that's not arson, because you always had a way out.

otterley 2y ago
This is a terrible analogy: 1/Selling something doesn't destroy it 2/You don't want to destroy it because you want to fetch a high price for it 3/Nobody's offering $1 for TikTok, and nobody expects ByteDance to accept $1 for it 4/A fair market price would make ByteDance whole
- Hizonner 2y ago
  You think forced rushed sales don't depress market prices?
  - otterley 2y ago
    ByteDance has been aware that this was likely to happen for years, and legislation was signed in April 2024, giving them over six months to sell. There's nothing rushed about this at all. ByteDance is playing chicken, and they're looking ever likelier to lose this game.
    - nickthegreek 2y ago
      The US is currently 1/5th of their revenue I believe. It’s very US centric to call not being extorted out of your company by a foreign power a loss. I do believe the legislation passed is legally binding and will hold up to scrutiny by this Supreme Court. I am a person who consumes fun videos on TikTok while also recognizing the potential for a adversary to abuse. I found TikTok to be a way more joyful place than the meta properties too. I hope Meta doesn’t get to reap the benefits of this ban and I’ve seen a lot of genz who seem to be extremely anti zuck. It’s an unfortunate outcome, but I don’t see a strong 1A argument on this.
- paxys 2y ago

oidar 2y ago

Like a Russian oligarch?