5 ms·

I was an outcast as a kid, and this was years before social media. I think I turned out alright regardless. Your social status as a pre-adult doesn't really mat

by Carrok 2y ago

I was an outcast as a kid, and this was years before social media. I think I turned out alright regardless. Your social status as a pre-adult doesn't really matter at all once you join the real world. That and I think kids not having any social media will become more and more common, so it's not going to be that big a deal.

anon115 2y ago
but your competency and how you communicate does.
- Carrok 2y ago
  Are you implying that children need social media to develop competency and communication skills?
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    If all of your peers are talking about the stuff they saw on YouTube, but you’re not allowed to, this will naturally make you an outcast in that topic. Now, if almost everything they talk about in the internet, and you cannot relate to it at all, it will hinder your interpersonal skills, because you just don’t talk to your peers. I hate how we got here, but watching my nephews go through this stuff made me realize you can’t cut the kids off completely. Ideally, you would live in a community where all parents have agreed on the social media limits, and slowly get the kids see how others function through it as well.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
      >I hate how we got here, but watching my nephews go through this stuff made me realize you can’t cut the kids off completely. Mine are turning out fine. I don't want them to be like those other children, and I've kept them away from those children. Doesn't seem to have been a problem. >Ideally, you would live in a community where all parents have agreed on the social media limits, This is a matter of who you choose to socialize/fraternize with, not one of geography. But if you opt for public school, then you have no real choice in the matter.
      - AstralStorm 2y ago
        Congratulations, you're raising future disgruntled outcast class of people who are not integrated with the society. The next step is some canny asshole will take advantage of these people by selling them on their superiority or offering community, and radicalize them. It's happened many times.
        iforgot22 2y ago
        ... because they don't have social media? That's a stretch.
        NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        >ongratulations, you're raising future disgruntled outcast class of people who are not integrated with the society. This society is dying, nearly dead. Anyone who is integrated with it will die by extension. Only lunatics would want to be integrated with it. This society can't even be bothered to make more humans so that it can continue into the future... it wants to be dead. My children aren't outcast, they have friends. Just not ones that would bully them because they didn't see the latest softcore porn on whatever the most popular social media happens to be today. >The next step is some canny asshole will take advantage of these people by selling them on their superiority or offering community, and radicalize them. Uh huh. What if someone taught them that it was normal to possess firearms, or to be skilled at using them? Those crazy radicals. What if they were taught that the most fulfilling thing they could do in their life is to make a family of their own, and raise their children well? What if their teachers were so radical that they taught arithmetic and trig and calculus instead of helping them decide they were trans? Everyone in this thread knows I'm right, even if they can't afford to agree openly. That's what this thread is... we know the society that our parents and ourselves have created is rotten and pathological, or we wouldn't be talking about how to insulate our children from it.
        tokioyoyo 2y ago
        Society is really fine! I live among millions of people every day, and people are genuinely kind and nice on average. It's up to you how you want to perceive the world, but I wouldn't want my neighbours to ever think people around them are lunatics and etc. I understand you're coming from a very American-specific point of view, which is very hard for me to comprehend. Growing up, I absolutely never had to worry (and now as well) about any of those topics. Even my nephews in public schools (US) are doing pretty decent maths stuff. I do think some of the things you've mentioned are mostly imaginary problems, but I can be wrong. I'm not special. You're not special either. Nobody's really special. Yet we find ways to sit down, have a drink, go for a drive, or have sex from time to time. That being said, I have quite a few friends who had very restricted childhoods, and would never want my children to feel the same resentment as they do during our hang outs.
    - AlexandrB 2y ago
      > If all of your peers are talking about the stuff they saw on YouTube, but you’re not allowed to, this will naturally make you an outcast in that topic. There were plenty of kids when I was in school who were not allowed to watch TV. Like at all. The real problem is that kids also socialize online now so you can't talk about "that time you hung out at McDonalds" because everyone was sitting at home on their phone instead.
      - RandallBrown 2y ago
        > There were plenty of kids when I was in school who were not allowed to watch TV. Like at all. The kids I knew like this were definitely ostracized for that. Hell, even kids that didn't have _cable_ were usually seen as a little weird.
      - tokioyoyo 2y ago
        Yeah, I remember the kids who were not allowed to watch TV, although they missed out on some peer-discussions, at least there were other stuff that everyone was involved in. And the kids that were not allowed to do anything (no internet, no TV, no games, no running outside around), well, I genuinely don't know how, as a kid, I could find anything in common with them. I really hope they're doing well, but I wouldn't want to be them at that time. I agree with your second point, the problem is there is one and only one avenue of doing things, and that's online (for most of the kids at least).
    - iforgot22 2y ago
      The solution is always to get different peers. If you're surrounded by bad influences, fitting in or not fitting in are both bad options.
soulofmischief 2y ago
But if you blame your parents' or guardians' overly restrictive dogma for your outcast status then it will likely turn into lifelong resentment. Would you want your kid to resent you? The better alternative is to explore the net together with your children and show them that there is a world beyond typical social media which is far more interesting and rewarding to explore. Encourage them to foster trust and strong relationships with people from around the world.
- tivert 2y ago
  > But if you blame your parents or guardians' overly restrictive dogma for your outcast status then it will likely turn into lifelong resentment. Would you want your kid to resent you? That's not a good reason. Would you let your kid take up smoking, because they'd resent you if you said no? Also: My parents wouldn't let me drive until at least a year after my peers got their licenses. I didn't like it, but I don't harbor a "lifelong resentment."
  - AstralStorm 2y ago
    That is assuming socials are as dangerous as smoking. Now they have their dangers of addiction, but that can indeed be worked out. As a safeguard, a rate limit filter is what I would recommend. Perhaps one that can recognize roughly the kind of content watched, so you can have a relevant talk. The self esteem and self-dox part can be really dealt with by actually doing the thing together. Otherwise you will be at the mercy of peers. Don't kid yourself about how powerful your influence is.
- snowwrestler 2y ago
  It is absolutely not true that placing limits on your child will create lifelong resentment. This is an irrational fear on the parents’ part.
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    This bold and vague claim is easily countered by my own datapoint as someone who continues to deeply resent the restrictions placed upon them in an extremely dogmatic household. Not everyone is given guardians who have their best interest at heart. My computer usage was surveilled and highly limited. My guardians feared the knowledge I could access via the internet. No personal computer, no television in my room. All media verified for dogmatic adherence before consumption. Personal belongings frequently searched and thrown away or broken. Any significant amount of money I saved up, stolen. I didn't even get to have a door for long stretches of time. I was surveilled by a network of narcissistic adults whose main interests were turning me into a good little Christian boy.
sznio 2y ago
>Your social status as a pre-adult doesn't really matter at all once you join the real world. Trauma stays.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  No it doesn't. I was nerdy and "low status" in school. I laugh at most of the silly stuff I did or was done to me in school. I don't get the mentality of holding onto all that stuff forever.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    That’s good for you. I’m the same, but… we’re here puttering around HN aren’t we? The ones that are not can’t really weigh in to offer a contrary opinion.
  - nicolas_t 2y ago
    As someone who was bullied in middle school (highlight includes being held down by 2 guys while someone else peed on me), trauma does stay. I mean, I'm a relatively well balanced individual, I have a job, a family etc... But that doesn't mean that I didn't have to have therapy over it, that I didn't commit self harm and that I didn't experience trauma. I'd rather my son not be a social outcast and experience that. And I do think that past a certain age, there's a need to conform a bit to society in order to integrate with it even if that means using social media at that age. That'll be with my guidance and strict limits but I don't think total abstinence is a solution.
  - jacobgkau 2y ago
    I was nerdy in school-- not necessarily "low status," because good grades were seen as good in my schools, but my social life was dangerously small and my self-esteem was trashed (in a "cover it up with arrogance to pretend it's by choice" kind of way). I am somewhat better today than I was then, but I'm still an incredibly unhappy person, and I trace many of the poor patterns I struggle to break out of to how I grew up. "Leaving it all behind" is, to me, a cope that either pays off if you end up getting what you want later, or that doesn't and leaves you back where you started. Most importantly, every individual is different (or so I'm told), so just because it's worked for you doesn't mean it should be relied on.
Aeolun 2y ago
> Your social status as a pre-adult doesn't really matter at all once you join the real world. The way you feel during that time does though. It decides who you are as an adult.

by Carrok 2y ago

anon115 2y ago

but your competency and how you communicate does.

Carrok 2y ago
Are you implying that children need social media to develop competency and communication skills?
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  If all of your peers are talking about the stuff they saw on YouTube, but you’re not allowed to, this will naturally make you an outcast in that topic. Now, if almost everything they talk about in the internet, and you cannot relate to it at all, it will hinder your interpersonal skills, because you just don’t talk to your peers. I hate how we got here, but watching my nephews go through this stuff made me realize you can’t cut the kids off completely. Ideally, you would live in a community where all parents have agreed on the social media limits, and slowly get the kids see how others function through it as well.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    >I hate how we got here, but watching my nephews go through this stuff made me realize you can’t cut the kids off completely. Mine are turning out fine. I don't want them to be like those other children, and I've kept them away from those children. Doesn't seem to have been a problem. >Ideally, you would live in a community where all parents have agreed on the social media limits, This is a matter of who you choose to socialize/fraternize with, not one of geography. But if you opt for public school, then you have no real choice in the matter.
    - AstralStorm 2y ago
      Congratulations, you're raising future disgruntled outcast class of people who are not integrated with the society. The next step is some canny asshole will take advantage of these people by selling them on their superiority or offering community, and radicalize them. It's happened many times.
      - iforgot22 2y ago
        ... because they don't have social media? That's a stretch.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        >ongratulations, you're raising future disgruntled outcast class of people who are not integrated with the society. This society is dying, nearly dead. Anyone who is integrated with it will die by extension. Only lunatics would want to be integrated with it. This society can't even be bothered to make more humans so that it can continue into the future... it wants to be dead. My children aren't outcast, they have friends. Just not ones that would bully them because they didn't see the latest softcore porn on whatever the most popular social media happens to be today. >The next step is some canny asshole will take advantage of these people by selling them on their superiority or offering community, and radicalize them. Uh huh. What if someone taught them that it was normal to possess firearms, or to be skilled at using them? Those crazy radicals. What if they were taught that the most fulfilling thing they could do in their life is to make a family of their own, and raise their children well? What if their teachers were so radical that they taught arithmetic and trig and calculus instead of helping them decide they were trans? Everyone in this thread knows I'm right, even if they can't afford to agree openly. That's what this thread is... we know the society that our parents and ourselves have created is rotten and pathological, or we wouldn't be talking about how to insulate our children from it.
        tokioyoyo 2y ago
        Society is really fine! I live among millions of people every day, and people are genuinely kind and nice on average. It's up to you how you want to perceive the world, but I wouldn't want my neighbours to ever think people around them are lunatics and etc. I understand you're coming from a very American-specific point of view, which is very hard for me to comprehend. Growing up, I absolutely never had to worry (and now as well) about any of those topics. Even my nephews in public schools (US) are doing pretty decent maths stuff. I do think some of the things you've mentioned are mostly imaginary problems, but I can be wrong. I'm not special. You're not special either. Nobody's really special. Yet we find ways to sit down, have a drink, go for a drive, or have sex from time to time. That being said, I have quite a few friends who had very restricted childhoods, and would never want my children to feel the same resentment as they do during our hang outs.
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    > If all of your peers are talking about the stuff they saw on YouTube, but you’re not allowed to, this will naturally make you an outcast in that topic. There were plenty of kids when I was in school who were not allowed to watch TV. Like at all. The real problem is that kids also socialize online now so you can't talk about "that time you hung out at McDonalds" because everyone was sitting at home on their phone instead.
    - RandallBrown 2y ago
      > There were plenty of kids when I was in school who were not allowed to watch TV. Like at all. The kids I knew like this were definitely ostracized for that. Hell, even kids that didn't have _cable_ were usually seen as a little weird.
    - tokioyoyo 2y ago
      Yeah, I remember the kids who were not allowed to watch TV, although they missed out on some peer-discussions, at least there were other stuff that everyone was involved in. And the kids that were not allowed to do anything (no internet, no TV, no games, no running outside around), well, I genuinely don't know how, as a kid, I could find anything in common with them. I really hope they're doing well, but I wouldn't want to be them at that time. I agree with your second point, the problem is there is one and only one avenue of doing things, and that's online (for most of the kids at least).
  - iforgot22 2y ago
    The solution is always to get different peers. If you're surrounded by bad influences, fitting in or not fitting in are both bad options.

soulofmischief 2y ago

But if you blame your parents' or guardians' overly restrictive dogma for your outcast status then it will likely turn into lifelong resentment. Would you want your kid to resent you? The better alternative is to explore the net together with your children and show them that there is a world beyond typical social media which is far more interesting and rewarding to explore. Encourage them to foster trust and strong relationships with people from around the world.

tivert 2y ago
> But if you blame your parents or guardians' overly restrictive dogma for your outcast status then it will likely turn into lifelong resentment. Would you want your kid to resent you? That's not a good reason. Would you let your kid take up smoking, because they'd resent you if you said no? Also: My parents wouldn't let me drive until at least a year after my peers got their licenses. I didn't like it, but I don't harbor a "lifelong resentment."
- AstralStorm 2y ago
  That is assuming socials are as dangerous as smoking. Now they have their dangers of addiction, but that can indeed be worked out. As a safeguard, a rate limit filter is what I would recommend. Perhaps one that can recognize roughly the kind of content watched, so you can have a relevant talk. The self esteem and self-dox part can be really dealt with by actually doing the thing together. Otherwise you will be at the mercy of peers. Don't kid yourself about how powerful your influence is.
snowwrestler 2y ago
It is absolutely not true that placing limits on your child will create lifelong resentment. This is an irrational fear on the parents’ part.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  This bold and vague claim is easily countered by my own datapoint as someone who continues to deeply resent the restrictions placed upon them in an extremely dogmatic household. Not everyone is given guardians who have their best interest at heart. My computer usage was surveilled and highly limited. My guardians feared the knowledge I could access via the internet. No personal computer, no television in my room. All media verified for dogmatic adherence before consumption. Personal belongings frequently searched and thrown away or broken. Any significant amount of money I saved up, stolen. I didn't even get to have a door for long stretches of time. I was surveilled by a network of narcissistic adults whose main interests were turning me into a good little Christian boy.

sznio 2y ago

>Your social status as a pre-adult doesn't really matter at all once you join the real world. Trauma stays.

AlexandrB 2y ago
No it doesn't. I was nerdy and "low status" in school. I laugh at most of the silly stuff I did or was done to me in school. I don't get the mentality of holding onto all that stuff forever.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  That’s good for you. I’m the same, but… we’re here puttering around HN aren’t we? The ones that are not can’t really weigh in to offer a contrary opinion.
- nicolas_t 2y ago
  As someone who was bullied in middle school (highlight includes being held down by 2 guys while someone else peed on me), trauma does stay. I mean, I'm a relatively well balanced individual, I have a job, a family etc... But that doesn't mean that I didn't have to have therapy over it, that I didn't commit self harm and that I didn't experience trauma. I'd rather my son not be a social outcast and experience that. And I do think that past a certain age, there's a need to conform a bit to society in order to integrate with it even if that means using social media at that age. That'll be with my guidance and strict limits but I don't think total abstinence is a solution.
- jacobgkau 2y ago
  I was nerdy in school-- not necessarily "low status," because good grades were seen as good in my schools, but my social life was dangerously small and my self-esteem was trashed (in a "cover it up with arrogance to pretend it's by choice" kind of way). I am somewhat better today than I was then, but I'm still an incredibly unhappy person, and I trace many of the poor patterns I struggle to break out of to how I grew up. "Leaving it all behind" is, to me, a cope that either pays off if you end up getting what you want later, or that doesn't and leaves you back where you started. Most importantly, every individual is different (or so I'm told), so just because it's worked for you doesn't mean it should be relied on.

Aeolun 2y ago

> Your social status as a pre-adult doesn't really matter at all once you join the real world. The way you feel during that time does though. It decides who you are as an adult.