4 ms·

there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed You didn't grow up in the UK then. Made me laugh

there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed You didn't grow up in the UK then. Made me laugh to think of not knowing Sikhs exist.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> You didn't grow up in the UK then I didn’t, but I do have Indian heritage. I knew Sikhs existed and the basics of their customs, but I was unaware of e.g. Operation Blue Star [1] or the Khalistan independence/separatist movement [2]. Plenty of Americans and Canadians (and, I’d posit, Brits) meanwhile could probably recognise the headdress and little more. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement
- OJFord 2y ago
  Do schools not teach about religion there? Sure not Khalistan (maybe in Geography or History it could be relevant), but about customs & beliefs beyond (or reason for) turbans, and certainly existence?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Do schools not teach about religion there? Can’t speak for Canada. But my American curriculum didn’t cover the Sikhs. The exposure came from family and at community cultural festivals—it was superficial. Most Americans wouldn’t have even that.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      I think the general issue is that while there is a focus on "ancient civilizations" (which, of course, covers India) Sikhism is too new to be covered in that. By the time the Middle Ages end and Enlightenment picks up almost all curricula swing back to Europe. I actually learned very little of what happened from 1500-1800ish around the world, besides how they related to the affairs of what was now some colony of a European country.
      - zelos 2y ago
        In the UK state education system it would be covered in Religious Education lessons, around ages 11-13. They cover most of the world's major religions. As a completely non-religious person I try to keep myself from telling my concientious son not to worry too much about his RE homework
        OJFord 2y ago
        And before (and optionally after). Also variously called Theology, Theology & Ethics, Religious Studies, Theology & Religious Studies, etc. - presumably because RE sounds like you're being educated to be religious, which is not the point at all.
  - joseda-hg 2y ago
    Depending on the place, usually it doesn't get to Sikhs Unless it's a zone with high affluence of a particular group it doesn't go too far after Abrahamic Religions, plus maybe Buddhism or Taoism if your Teacher particularly cares In my (Catholic) school we got as far as visiting a mosque, which was an interesting experience
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > Plenty of Americans and Canadians (and, I’d posit, Brits) meanwhile could probably recognise the headdress and little more. Probably not even that. In the early noughties, as the US reached Peak Neuroticism, people attempting to hate-crime Muslims sometimes accidentally murdered Sikhs, instead, due to confusion about turbans: https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/us/sikh-hate-crime-victims/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/us/sikh-hate-crime-victims/in...
- scheme271 2y ago
  Huh, you didn't learn about how Indira Gandhi was assassinated by two of her Sikh bodyguards? It's pretty old stuff but it was a fairly significant event.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Americans dont learn who Indira Gandhi IS.
    - kasey_junk 2y ago
      There are 330 million Americans. I learned about this in a mainline world history class in public high school. In Indiana.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I didn't say not no American has ever learned it. Im somewhat surprised that you learned it, but still think that most don't cover this.
piltdownman 2y ago
Same story in Ireland, we've even changed the uniform rules for our police force in recent years to allow for the Sikh Turban in lieu of the traditional hat. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-had-guys-we-are-arresting-say-fair-play-to-you-bud-when-they-see-me-on-the-beat-with-irelands-first-sikh-garda-reserve/41385624.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-had-guys-we-are-ar... Sikhs and Gurkhas would be reasonably well known and have a pretty sterling reputation in Ireland/UK - but that cultural consciousness would sharply decline the further you get into Western Europe due to historical colonisation being African rather than Indian focused.
- jgrahamc 2y ago
  In the UK Sikh soldiers can wear a turban instead of the bearskin usually associated with protecting the monarch: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/09/europe/sikh-soldier-turban-guardsman-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/09/europe/sikh-soldier-turba...

there is international curiosity about (and default sympathy for) a group most previously didn’t know existed You didn't grow up in the UK then. Made me laugh to think of not knowing Sikhs exist.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> You didn't grow up in the UK then I didn’t, but I do have Indian heritage. I knew Sikhs existed and the basics of their customs, but I was unaware of e.g. Operation Blue Star [1] or the Khalistan independence/separatist movement [2]. Plenty of Americans and Canadians (and, I’d posit, Brits) meanwhile could probably recognise the headdress and little more. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement

OJFord 2y ago
Do schools not teach about religion there? Sure not Khalistan (maybe in Geography or History it could be relevant), but about customs & beliefs beyond (or reason for) turbans, and certainly existence?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Do schools not teach about religion there? Can’t speak for Canada. But my American curriculum didn’t cover the Sikhs. The exposure came from family and at community cultural festivals—it was superficial. Most Americans wouldn’t have even that.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    I think the general issue is that while there is a focus on "ancient civilizations" (which, of course, covers India) Sikhism is too new to be covered in that. By the time the Middle Ages end and Enlightenment picks up almost all curricula swing back to Europe. I actually learned very little of what happened from 1500-1800ish around the world, besides how they related to the affairs of what was now some colony of a European country.
    - zelos 2y ago
      In the UK state education system it would be covered in Religious Education lessons, around ages 11-13. They cover most of the world's major religions. As a completely non-religious person I try to keep myself from telling my concientious son not to worry too much about his RE homework
      - OJFord 2y ago
        And before (and optionally after). Also variously called Theology, Theology & Ethics, Religious Studies, Theology & Religious Studies, etc. - presumably because RE sounds like you're being educated to be religious, which is not the point at all.
- joseda-hg 2y ago
  Depending on the place, usually it doesn't get to Sikhs Unless it's a zone with high affluence of a particular group it doesn't go too far after Abrahamic Religions, plus maybe Buddhism or Taoism if your Teacher particularly cares In my (Catholic) school we got as far as visiting a mosque, which was an interesting experience
rsynnott 2y ago
> Plenty of Americans and Canadians (and, I’d posit, Brits) meanwhile could probably recognise the headdress and little more. Probably not even that. In the early noughties, as the US reached Peak Neuroticism, people attempting to hate-crime Muslims sometimes accidentally murdered Sikhs, instead, due to confusion about turbans: https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/us/sikh-hate-crime-victims/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/us/sikh-hate-crime-victims/in...
scheme271 2y ago
Huh, you didn't learn about how Indira Gandhi was assassinated by two of her Sikh bodyguards? It's pretty old stuff but it was a fairly significant event.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Americans dont learn who Indira Gandhi IS.
  - kasey_junk 2y ago
    There are 330 million Americans. I learned about this in a mainline world history class in public high school. In Indiana.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      I didn't say not no American has ever learned it. Im somewhat surprised that you learned it, but still think that most don't cover this.

piltdownman 2y ago

Same story in Ireland, we've even changed the uniform rules for our police force in recent years to allow for the Sikh Turban in lieu of the traditional hat. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-had-guys-we-are-arresting-say-fair-play-to-you-bud-when-they-see-me-on-the-beat-with-irelands-first-sikh-garda-reserve/41385624.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-had-guys-we-are-ar... Sikhs and Gurkhas would be reasonably well known and have a pretty sterling reputation in Ireland/UK - but that cultural consciousness would sharply decline the further you get into Western Europe due to historical colonisation being African rather than Indian focused.

jgrahamc 2y ago
In the UK Sikh soldiers can wear a turban instead of the bearskin usually associated with protecting the monarch: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/09/europe/sikh-soldier-turban-guardsman-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/09/europe/sikh-soldier-turba...