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TFA spends the first 7-8 paragraphs defining "woke", even a dedicated callout to a concise definition: > An aggressively performative focus on social justice
by cle 2y ago
TFA spends the first 7-8 paragraphs defining "woke", even a dedicated callout to a concise definition:
> An aggressively performative focus on social justice.
- tomlockwood 2y agoThat's a pretty subjective definition. We're back where we started.
- cle 2y agoHelpfully he spends most of the article elaborating on what he means by "aggressively performative".
- tomlockwood 2y agoSo, not such a "concise definition".
- dgfitz 2y ago[flagged]
- tomlockwood 2y agoIt either has a concise definition that actually defines the term or it doesn't. I leave it to the anti-woke to tell me which it is, and I'm still waiting. "It has a concise definition!" moments later "It took a whole article to explain!!!" Also entertaining - the idea that racism has an uncontested definition.
- nl 2y agoI think any definition of a contested term is going to end up having a longer explanation (See this whole discussion as a proof-by-example). It seems like a reasonably concise definition to me. It's reasonable to disagree with the definition of course, but to merely dismiss it as not concise is both incorrect and not useful because it lacks specific criticisms.
- tomlockwood 2y agoYou understand as well as anyone that something is either a definition of a term, or it isn't. I'm simply pointing to someone who says "This is a concise definition," and then pointing out that, no, if the definition isn't complete, it isn't a concise definition. And that's fine, we just need to acknowledge that the way people use "woke" is a shorthand for something else, in this case I'd characterize it as the pseudointellectual wet fish flopping of a billionaire struggling to blame someone, anyone, for the world being bad, when he's had outsized control and influence over it for the entirety of his career. But I acknowledge people may disagree with this.
- PittleyDunkin 2y agowhat does "performative" mean in this context? I honestly can't tell. It would really help if pg provided an example so we could evaluate for ourselves. Meanwhile, basically all national politics is performative bullshit. Why are we not calling both parties woke?
- cle 2y agoWell b/c of the "focus on social justice" clause. I'd definitely agree though that both parties are way too "aggressively performative".
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoWell, I wonder what he thinks non-performative social justice looks like. The civil rights movement was certainly performative (as is all protest) and that's basically the only narrative we were offered growing up for how to affect social change.
- cle 2y ago> Instead of going out into the world and quietly helping members of marginalized groups, the politically correct focused on getting people in trouble for using the wrong words to talk about them. I also think there's a pretty big difference between keyboard jockeying / speech policing, and putting yourself in physical danger by physically confronting racists who'd lynch you if there weren't cameras around.
- guelo 2y agoCalling it performative (aka "virtue signaling") is either mind reading or casting aspersion without evidence.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cle 2y agoI don't know what you want. Most of the article is spent elaborating on what that means and providing examples of it. > Instead of going out into the world and quietly helping members of marginalized groups, the politically correct focused on getting people in trouble for using the wrong words to talk about them. > The problem with political correctness was not that it focused on marginalized groups, but the shallow, aggressive way in which it did so.
- guelo 2y agoWhy does he want it to be done quietly? The only way democracy can work is that you convince others of your ideas. Seems like he doesn't want certain ideas to be advocated for at all, go work on them if you want but shut up about it.
- bpt3 2y agoBecause loudly attacking individuals for not being in complete agreement with your views is rarely effective? Even more so when some of your views are not widely seen as an agreed upon social norm. Also, I didn't see anything arguing for this in the article in the first place.
- threeseed 2y ago> Because loudly attacking individuals for not being in complete agreement with your views is rarely effective It's worked wonders for Donald Trump.
- edwinjm 2y ago
- mseepgood 2y ago"aggressively" and "performative" already contain a judgement. The actual meaning of "wokeness" is an "awareness of the existence of social injustice".
- cle 2y agoThe whole article is an opinion piece that is judging a group of people. I don't think most people would agree with your definition. And besides, the definition of "woke" is a secondary issue anyway, the article's purpose isn't to propose a definition of woke, it's to judge and criticize people who behave a certain way, and he's done an adequate job IMO of describing the behaviors he's criticizing.
- tivert 2y ago> The actual meaning of "wokeness" is an "awareness of the existence of social injustice". The actual meaning of "wokeness" is that it has several different meanings. For instancee, the first could be what you outlined: 1. an "awareness of the existence of social injustice" And another, equally valid one (that comes about from the reaction to people who embraced the first meaning and proceeded to behave obnoxiously and gain lots of attention) is: 2. the obnoxious and doctrinaire enforcement of the values of the "social justice" subculture on the wider population through bullying tactics (e.g. social media pile ons) etc. Taking one as the "one true meaning" is almost always just a tactic to delegitimize an opponent (usually by the left, as they have more access prestigious institutions, but language is language and no authority can suppress new words and new senses of existing words).
- davorak 2y ago> Taking one as the "one true meaning" is almost always just a tactic to delegitimize an opponent I think the thought process is that there was a word and it had a positive meaning. It was then used in a negative way to delegitimize an opponent. So I think some people feel like the word is stolen or still being purposely miss used. For better or worse that is not how language works, in general new meanings can be attached to words and at least in my experience the majority of people using woke negatively are not trying to miss use the word.
- boombabot 2y agoThe problem appears to be with performativeness specifically. Because it is performative, it is superficial, and that's bad. What this post is hilariously doing is policing what is considered superficial humanity and what is not. Let's be woke but really mean it lads, then the conservatives will be with us!