5 ms·

> privacy-centric solutions are out there and relatively easy to find Really? Please name them. Over the past 10 or 15 years, I've never seen anything other th

by lapcat 2y ago

> privacy-centric solutions are out there and relatively easy to find Really? Please name them. Over the past 10 or 15 years, I've never seen anything other than the iPhone/Android or Mac/Windows duopoly for sale in any retail store. I've never seen any advertising for other than those duopolies. The HN crowd may be aware of obscure options, but for the vast majority of consumers, they don't exist. And since we as developers make money catering to the vast majority of consumers, we're kind of stuck with the duopoly too, at least as far as our work is concerned.

regnull 2y ago
Here you go: https://us.starlabs.systems/ https://us.starlabs.systems/ Now, how many of you guys have this? Or anything like this? I bet 95% of the HN crowd happily uses iOS/Android daily.
- lapcat 2y ago
  I've never even heard of that before, and I'm terminally online. Anyway, desktop computers aren't really the main problem here. For example, Apple Macs offer vastly more personal freedom than Apple iPhones. If iPhones behaved like Macs in that respect, then we might not be having this debate. To the extent that Macs have been increasingly locked down over the past 15 years, it's mostly just copying the iPhone, porting the "features" over from one platform to the other.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  This is the first time I heard about it. Has anyone looked into their claims? Would love to buy an affordable Linux pad or a mini PC.
  - regnull 2y ago
    FWIW, I have no idea if this is any good. My point is, I found this after maybe 3 minutes searching. If we were to spend 30 minutes, we would definitely find something reasonable.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      > If we were to spend 30 minutes, we would definitely find something reasonable. That's quite an assumption.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      I'm using a GNU/Linux phone (Librem 5) as a daily driver, and it has a lot of rough edges. Root access is a no-brainer (it basically runs Debian), but a small company making them can't possibly provide Apple experience.
      - markus_zhang 2y ago
        That's fair. What kind of rough edges did you find? I think I'm OK without any Google services, because I can simply keep another phone just for those and banks/trading platforms.
        fsflover 2y ago
        For me, it's mainly the battery life and the UI lagginess. There are some reviews on the forums: https://forums.puri.sm/t/why-i-stopped-using-my-librem-5-after-two-weeks-of-hassle/21687/23 https://forums.puri.sm/t/why-i-stopped-using-my-librem-5-aft..., https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-fatigue/21934 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-fatigue/21934.
        markus_zhang 2y ago
        Thanks! Looks like some of the concerns are legit. I guess I'll carry two phones if I buy this one. The web browsing experience is the most concerning one -- if that's bad then I might as well use a dumb phone.
        fsflover 2y ago
        The web browsing is quite manageable, especially with NoScript. Sent from the phone.
regnull 2y ago
And as for "why are not selling this in every retail store?", the answer is the same - because if they were, no one would buy them. I found the situation curious, while everyone complains about it, only very few people are trying to do anything about it. Perhaps the breaking point was not reached yet, and something big has to happen to change people's perspective.
- lapcat 2y ago
  > And as for "why are not selling this in every retail store?", the answer is the same - because if they were, no one would buy them. That's purely hypothetical. How could any prove or disprove the assertion? The general point, though, is that consumer awareness is essential for sales. People won't buy things that they don't know about. As an indie developer myself, I'm painfully aware of this. It doesn't matter how great one's product is if nobody knows about it. Advertising is very expensive, so it requires vast capital outlays in order to get your products into the minds of consumers and onto the shelves of stores. The big established brands have a massive advantage, making it difficult for competitors to break into the market. Apple itself leveraged its existing brand, with Mac and iPod, in order to promote iPhone. And Apple's primary competitor is Google, who also was already an established brand via search and Chrome. Remember that back in the day, Microsoft almost destroyed the entire desktop OS market. They almost killed Apple too. Only the Department of Justice put some kind of break on it, and Microsoft let Apple live in order to provide antitrust cover. If MS had for example simply withdrawn its apps from Mac—Office, Internet Explorer (remember that Internet Explorer was originally the default web browser on Mac OS X before Safari!)—Apple likely would have died.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    It's not just about familiarity. People are willing to try new things. The actual problems are network effects and vendor lock-in. The hardest part about switching from Facebook isn't installing some other app or anything like that, it's getting everyone else you know to switch from Facebook. The hardest part about switching from Windows isn't installing Linux, it's getting e.g. game developers to target Linux before it has significant consumer market share. That isn't to say that doing these thing is impossible, but it certainly isn't trivial, so anyone wondering why it hasn't happened already can't seriously think the only explanation is that nobody cares. It's like saying nobody cares about high healthcare costs -- of course they care, the question is what do we have to do to fix it?

by lapcat 2y ago

regnull 2y ago

Here you go: https://us.starlabs.systems/ https://us.starlabs.systems/ Now, how many of you guys have this? Or anything like this? I bet 95% of the HN crowd happily uses iOS/Android daily.

lapcat 2y ago
I've never even heard of that before, and I'm terminally online. Anyway, desktop computers aren't really the main problem here. For example, Apple Macs offer vastly more personal freedom than Apple iPhones. If iPhones behaved like Macs in that respect, then we might not be having this debate. To the extent that Macs have been increasingly locked down over the past 15 years, it's mostly just copying the iPhone, porting the "features" over from one platform to the other.
markus_zhang 2y ago
This is the first time I heard about it. Has anyone looked into their claims? Would love to buy an affordable Linux pad or a mini PC.
- regnull 2y ago
  FWIW, I have no idea if this is any good. My point is, I found this after maybe 3 minutes searching. If we were to spend 30 minutes, we would definitely find something reasonable.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    > If we were to spend 30 minutes, we would definitely find something reasonable. That's quite an assumption.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    I'm using a GNU/Linux phone (Librem 5) as a daily driver, and it has a lot of rough edges. Root access is a no-brainer (it basically runs Debian), but a small company making them can't possibly provide Apple experience.
    - markus_zhang 2y ago
      That's fair. What kind of rough edges did you find? I think I'm OK without any Google services, because I can simply keep another phone just for those and banks/trading platforms.
      - fsflover 2y ago
        For me, it's mainly the battery life and the UI lagginess. There are some reviews on the forums: https://forums.puri.sm/t/why-i-stopped-using-my-librem-5-after-two-weeks-of-hassle/21687/23 https://forums.puri.sm/t/why-i-stopped-using-my-librem-5-aft..., https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-fatigue/21934 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-fatigue/21934.
        markus_zhang 2y ago
        Thanks! Looks like some of the concerns are legit. I guess I'll carry two phones if I buy this one. The web browsing experience is the most concerning one -- if that's bad then I might as well use a dumb phone.
        fsflover 2y ago
        The web browsing is quite manageable, especially with NoScript. Sent from the phone.

regnull 2y ago

And as for "why are not selling this in every retail store?", the answer is the same - because if they were, no one would buy them. I found the situation curious, while everyone complains about it, only very few people are trying to do anything about it. Perhaps the breaking point was not reached yet, and something big has to happen to change people's perspective.

lapcat 2y ago
> And as for "why are not selling this in every retail store?", the answer is the same - because if they were, no one would buy them. That's purely hypothetical. How could any prove or disprove the assertion? The general point, though, is that consumer awareness is essential for sales. People won't buy things that they don't know about. As an indie developer myself, I'm painfully aware of this. It doesn't matter how great one's product is if nobody knows about it. Advertising is very expensive, so it requires vast capital outlays in order to get your products into the minds of consumers and onto the shelves of stores. The big established brands have a massive advantage, making it difficult for competitors to break into the market. Apple itself leveraged its existing brand, with Mac and iPod, in order to promote iPhone. And Apple's primary competitor is Google, who also was already an established brand via search and Chrome. Remember that back in the day, Microsoft almost destroyed the entire desktop OS market. They almost killed Apple too. Only the Department of Justice put some kind of break on it, and Microsoft let Apple live in order to provide antitrust cover. If MS had for example simply withdrawn its apps from Mac—Office, Internet Explorer (remember that Internet Explorer was originally the default web browser on Mac OS X before Safari!)—Apple likely would have died.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  It's not just about familiarity. People are willing to try new things. The actual problems are network effects and vendor lock-in. The hardest part about switching from Facebook isn't installing some other app or anything like that, it's getting everyone else you know to switch from Facebook. The hardest part about switching from Windows isn't installing Linux, it's getting e.g. game developers to target Linux before it has significant consumer market share. That isn't to say that doing these thing is impossible, but it certainly isn't trivial, so anyone wondering why it hasn't happened already can't seriously think the only explanation is that nobody cares. It's like saying nobody cares about high healthcare costs -- of course they care, the question is what do we have to do to fix it?