5 ms·

> it is probably too late. It is definitely too late to avoid breaching 1.5 degrees. It is probably too late to avoid breaching 2.5 degrees. It is not too

> it is probably too late. It is definitely too late to avoid breaching 1.5 degrees. It is probably too late to avoid breaching 2.5 degrees. It is not too late to avoid breaching 4 degrees, or 6 or 8. We cannot give up.

mmh0000 2y ago
Can't give up if you never try! [insert head pointing meme here]
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  We've literally spent trillions of dollars already to combat and mitigate change. We spend $500B annually just on solar panels. Add in the amounts we've spend on wind turbines, EV's, methane capture, etc, and we're spending over $1T per year combatting climate change. It's not enough, but this meme that we're not trying is silly.
  - Yizahi 2y ago
    Graph of CO2 level in the atmosphere doesn't show even a tiny sign of those efforts. Sure, they are all good and commendable, but here we get zero points for the effort. If we reduce emissions a lot, really reduce them across he globe, this will simply mean that we will slow heating speed, not the target temperature. Like turning oven regulator from 3 to 2.5 - oven will still reach maximum temperature. CO2 level is the regulator.
    - tim333 2y ago
      For some reason no one wants the obvious solution, a global price/tax on carbon. So what you get is some countries spend billions on solar while others crank up almost untaxed fossil fuel use. Even in one country like the UK were I live we have stupid expensive electricity combined with basically no tax on heating gas/oil. I'm honestly puzzled why it's like that. Why do others not think a carbon price is a good idea and instead say let ban plastic straws while having zero tax on carbon for heating - that'll fix it? I don't get it.
      - Yizahi 2y ago
        We would never agree on a global tax system in the first place. We could tax wars for example, and those kill humans directly, unlike climate change. But we don't do it, because many humans benefit from wars. Same with carbon tax, too many countries benefit from not paying it and so they won't. Second problem is that carbon tax won't help. It doesn't reduce emissions much (because realistically countries would rather pay than de-industrialize in short term), and it doesn't remove CO2 from the atmosphere at all. As I wrote above - a slow down of emissions won't really change the final outcome, it will only prolong the heating process.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      The graph of CO2 emissions per year shows a noticeable impact.
      - Yizahi 2y ago
        That's the problem I was talking about. We humans can't measure emissions, we can only cleverly estimate them. Especially if the number we want is a global one, a sum of every tiny source plus every big source in every country, from democracies to a closed dictatorships. So when institutions show that badly estimated rate of gas inflow is decreasing, but the actual amount of gas is increasing, then the only logical answer is that inflow measurement is broken. Emissions estimates are broken, because total amount of gas in the atmosphere is only ever increasing and the rate of increase is accelerating.
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Mauna Koa direct measurements and the estimates are not significantly different.
        Yizahi 2y ago
        Well, yes, they both show almost no impact from our green initiatives on the actual data. Emissions graph is increasing, and very slightly slowing rate of increase in the past few years. But the CO2 graph is a direct measurement of total CO2, so it is effectively a cumulative graph. And it is lowly curving up, accelerating, over past decades including last few years. Even if we magically flat line emissions graph, meaning no more increases of emissions, we will still see CO2 graph increasing and likely accelerating due to compounding of factors and existing CO2 levels already in the atmosphere. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/ https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/
jmclnx 2y ago
The thing here, one "regular" person trying will have little impact. For example, I have bicycled to work for almost 40 years, depending upon weather. But at times that was impossible due to traffic design and public transportation in the US being close to useless. We still have large countries pushing fossil fuel and opening up new oil wells. Coal is just being replaced by Natural Gas only because it is much cheaper. Want to make things better ? Stop all Fossil Fuel subsidizes and at least triple the price of Auto Fuel. Then you will see real impacts. But the very second Gas Prices raise, the Gov does all it can to lower the cost of fuel. It does not matter what party is in office. So yes, it is close to too late because no real action has taken place. We are seeing adoption of green, but that is being eaten up by AI and *coins and other factors. The youth of the world will suffer because of our inaction. End result, people voted in an admin that will increase Fossil Fuel use because of raising prices.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  > no real action has taken place No real action, except for the approximately 1 trillion dollars a year the world spends on solar panels, wind turbines, electric cars, etc.
- a_imho 2y ago
  There are some variables to consider, but even using grid energy mix most EVs -including cars- have a smaller co2 emission per mile than bikes, due to agriculture having quite a big eco footprint. https://archive.ph/YgEe8 https://archive.ph/YgEe8 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore
  - tim333 2y ago
    I'd dispute some of the reasoning with those - the first one is assuming the cyclist is fueling themselves with fruit, something quite expensive with limited calories rather than the real stuff people fuel up on like bread or potatoes.
    - a_imho 2y ago

mmh0000 2y ago

Can't give up if you never try! [insert head pointing meme here]

bryanlarsen 2y ago
We've literally spent trillions of dollars already to combat and mitigate change. We spend $500B annually just on solar panels. Add in the amounts we've spend on wind turbines, EV's, methane capture, etc, and we're spending over $1T per year combatting climate change. It's not enough, but this meme that we're not trying is silly.
- Yizahi 2y ago
  Graph of CO2 level in the atmosphere doesn't show even a tiny sign of those efforts. Sure, they are all good and commendable, but here we get zero points for the effort. If we reduce emissions a lot, really reduce them across he globe, this will simply mean that we will slow heating speed, not the target temperature. Like turning oven regulator from 3 to 2.5 - oven will still reach maximum temperature. CO2 level is the regulator.
  - tim333 2y ago
    For some reason no one wants the obvious solution, a global price/tax on carbon. So what you get is some countries spend billions on solar while others crank up almost untaxed fossil fuel use. Even in one country like the UK were I live we have stupid expensive electricity combined with basically no tax on heating gas/oil. I'm honestly puzzled why it's like that. Why do others not think a carbon price is a good idea and instead say let ban plastic straws while having zero tax on carbon for heating - that'll fix it? I don't get it.
    - Yizahi 2y ago
      We would never agree on a global tax system in the first place. We could tax wars for example, and those kill humans directly, unlike climate change. But we don't do it, because many humans benefit from wars. Same with carbon tax, too many countries benefit from not paying it and so they won't. Second problem is that carbon tax won't help. It doesn't reduce emissions much (because realistically countries would rather pay than de-industrialize in short term), and it doesn't remove CO2 from the atmosphere at all. As I wrote above - a slow down of emissions won't really change the final outcome, it will only prolong the heating process.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    The graph of CO2 emissions per year shows a noticeable impact.
    - Yizahi 2y ago
      That's the problem I was talking about. We humans can't measure emissions, we can only cleverly estimate them. Especially if the number we want is a global one, a sum of every tiny source plus every big source in every country, from democracies to a closed dictatorships. So when institutions show that badly estimated rate of gas inflow is decreasing, but the actual amount of gas is increasing, then the only logical answer is that inflow measurement is broken. Emissions estimates are broken, because total amount of gas in the atmosphere is only ever increasing and the rate of increase is accelerating.
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Mauna Koa direct measurements and the estimates are not significantly different.
        Yizahi 2y ago
        Well, yes, they both show almost no impact from our green initiatives on the actual data. Emissions graph is increasing, and very slightly slowing rate of increase in the past few years. But the CO2 graph is a direct measurement of total CO2, so it is effectively a cumulative graph. And it is lowly curving up, accelerating, over past decades including last few years. Even if we magically flat line emissions graph, meaning no more increases of emissions, we will still see CO2 graph increasing and likely accelerating due to compounding of factors and existing CO2 levels already in the atmosphere. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/ https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/

jmclnx 2y ago

The thing here, one "regular" person trying will have little impact. For example, I have bicycled to work for almost 40 years, depending upon weather. But at times that was impossible due to traffic design and public transportation in the US being close to useless. We still have large countries pushing fossil fuel and opening up new oil wells. Coal is just being replaced by Natural Gas only because it is much cheaper. Want to make things better ? Stop all Fossil Fuel subsidizes and at least triple the price of Auto Fuel. Then you will see real impacts. But the very second Gas Prices raise, the Gov does all it can to lower the cost of fuel. It does not matter what party is in office. So yes, it is close to too late because no real action has taken place. We are seeing adoption of green, but that is being eaten up by AI and *coins and other factors. The youth of the world will suffer because of our inaction. End result, people voted in an admin that will increase Fossil Fuel use because of raising prices.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
> no real action has taken place No real action, except for the approximately 1 trillion dollars a year the world spends on solar panels, wind turbines, electric cars, etc.
a_imho 2y ago
There are some variables to consider, but even using grid energy mix most EVs -including cars- have a smaller co2 emission per mile than bikes, due to agriculture having quite a big eco footprint. https://archive.ph/YgEe8 https://archive.ph/YgEe8 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore
- tim333 2y ago
  I'd dispute some of the reasoning with those - the first one is assuming the cyclist is fueling themselves with fruit, something quite expensive with limited calories rather than the real stuff people fuel up on like bread or potatoes.
  - a_imho 2y ago