5 ms·

Thanks to Nvidia, there's a new generation of PCs coming and they'll run Linux

69 points by CrankyBear 2y ago

dagmx 2y ago
This article is pure conjecture and doesn’t have anything to back up the title beyond “these brands also happen to use mediatek” and making a tenuous link between their Chromebook products and the Digit system.
- teleforce 2y ago
  There's also Lenovo with their upcoming Qualcomm Snapdragon X based desktop [1]. Between Qualcomm and Mediatek they produced probably more than 90% world's smartphone. If they start selling Linux desktops they will probably very popular if they have comparable performance with mainstream x86 based desktops but with more affordable price. [1] Lenovo announces world’s first mini desktop PCs powered by Snapdragon X chips: https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/desktop-computers/lenovo-announces-worlds-first-mini-desktop-pcs-powered-by-snapdragon-x-chips https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/desktop-computers/lenovo...
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    We have already seen how this goes with EEE PCs, Chromebooks and Android. Don't expect your favourite distribution to be there instead of OEM XYZ Linux, that it will have zero binary blobs, or it will be routinely updated. And even if the hardware happens to be Linux friendly, other distros will need to reverse engineer as always.
    - teleforce 2y ago
      > We have already seen how this goes with EEE PCs, Chromebooks and Android Chromebooks (web based) and Android (smartphone) are not desktop oriented, while EEE PCs were non-performance devices mainly designed for Windows, its Linux version is an afterthought secondary product by Asus.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        So agreeing that OEMs don't really care much about Linux Desktop experience quality, nor put that much effort into it.
        teleforce 2y ago
        It's apple to orange comparison with Eee PCs, Chromebooks and Android. For OEMs it's basically a demand and supply problem. If more users demand for desktop Linux as more performant desktop hardware available, then they start to make effort on the quality. We already see this in the cloud market where majority are Linux servers and the quality of the OEMs for servers now far surpass of Windows and BSDs. If majority of desktop users are using Linux the OEMs will ensure the quality is there for the users as they follow where the money is. Even now Nvidia is courting Linux on the GPU sides and now on the desktop sides as the article is referring to. As Linux also moving inroads to in-vehicle entertainment the computer vendors including Nvidia will up their game accordingly [1]. [1] Automotive Grade Linux Launches New Expert Group Led by Toyota: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42423199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42423199
Bancakes 2y ago
In the meanwhile, people with nvidia laptops can enjoy a blinking white cursor on a black display. Courtesy of nvidia Optimus and their “wonderful” first party linux support for it.
- spookie 2y ago
  It's quite easy to get a running Nvidia Optimus setup nowadays. Just go through arch wiki if on X, and just use drivers >560 for Wayland. Is there anything I'm not in the loop or?
  - Bancakes 2y ago
    It’s great we recently got the feature for wayland. But for X it’s been a wild ride of bumblebee and using prime-run and full offloading for many years. The arch wiki is still not a first party solution. As it stands, no normal user should have to go through that. The best option I’ve found is to just stick with Pop!_OS - they have a switcher set up and it actually works. And once the user sets up Optimus, they can continue down the arch wiki for setting up hardware video decode on their browsers manually, and every other feature that nobody should have to mind.
    - zxvkhkxvdvbdxz 2y ago
      X is long dead. It is only reasonable for NVIDIA to focus on working wayland experience since that's where Linux desktop is. For hw-accel, just use nouveau and VA-API will work out of the box. (Yes, nvidia is contributing to nouveau these days).
      - Bancakes 2y ago
        X is anything but dead. XFCE and KDE have working x11 DEs. If anything, you get higher performance on it relative wayland in some use cases.[0][1] Nouveau last time I checked has practically no support for modern nvidia chips (read: 5 years ago to now) in CUDA, performance states, 2D, and 3D.[3] [0] https://www.phoronix.com/review/wayland-nv-amd-2023 https://www.phoronix.com/review/wayland-nv-amd-2023 [1] https://discuss.kde.org/t/wayland-vs-x-benchmarking-results-updated-july-30/19348 https://discuss.kde.org/t/wayland-vs-x-benchmarking-results-... [3] https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html
yalogin 2y ago
Why does any of that make sense? It’s an enterprise play for them. You see Mac minis used all over for their compact form factor behind tvs. This is a similar play for enterprises but development and IT deployment of AI chips. I don’t even know if it will pan out
lousken 2y ago
they were 5 years behind AMD on drivers, maybe now they're 3, so maybe in their next generation
hedora 2y ago
I think they’re saying that NVIDIA is already making high performance arm processors, and announced a high-end desktop arm that’ll run linux by default. Not sure though. It would let them compete with my Ryzen SoC mini-pc, assuming they fix their drivers (and get the linux taint bit to stay off).
n144q 2y ago
> But what about a $1,000 Blackwell PC from Acer, Asus, or Lenovo? Do they already exist, are they announced, or are these products in their roadmap? No? Then what on earth are we talking about here? The author really thinks people care about Linux desktop? No, people want laptops that works. I don't know what that means exactly, but I highly doubt we are anywhere close to thinking Linux desktop is usable for everyone.
berbec 2y ago
echo "$(($(date +%Y)+1)) is the year of the Linux desktop."
ramon156 2y ago
Even after reading I don't get why anyone would consider a laptop with nvidia over amd. Buying an amd thinkpad was one of my best choices of 2024
- deaddodo 2y ago
  I say this as someone happily using Linux on an all AMD laptop. The AMD GPUs still perform worse, generally. In overall performance, but especially in RT, CUDA, and other specified workloads. There's a reason the next (current?) gen high end AMD laptops are mostly switching to muxed Nvidia 4000s (ASUS, Razer, etc).
- pjmlp 2y ago
  CUDA and better graphics support for one.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
I'm curious to see whether they run any Linux, or just nvidia's Linux. Nvidia has a long history with "Linux for Tegra" (l4t) and "Jetson Linux", where it's nearly unheard of run to a regular boring Linux distribution. Instead there's a special magic distro Nvidia has cooked up that's essentially the only good way to use the hardware. If Nvidia actually starts building systems that behave like a reasonably supportable computer I'd be much more afraid of them.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  In all these systems expect OEM Linux to be the case. Even if they do support regular distros, that only works with the drivers they provide, and are naturally frozen to a specific kernel version.
ddmma 2y ago
So many ads and scrolling jumping around the page, such a mess of unreadable content old friend zdnet
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  It helps to use an ad blocker, even on mobile.
webprofusion 2y ago
Hmm, it's Arm and Windows most definitely runs on Arm, Microsoft already sell a bunch of Arm based Surface PCs. Yes Linux will definitely be one of the operating systems used on these new PCs, and they may even run Linux more often that not but if we assume computers largely exist for business to happen and money to be made, Windows is never that far away.
hilbert42 2y ago
"I know: "Year of the Linux desktop ... yadda, yadda." You've heard it all before. But now there's a Linux-powered PC that many people will want: Nvidia's Project Digits, …" I'm a Linux devotee but I doubt very much if there'll be a 'Year of the Linux desktop' anytime soon (as much as I'd like there to be one). Yes, I'm aware of the recent upsurge in Linux desktop usage to around 4% and that's a good thing but it's not going to usurp Windows in the near future, if ever. It seems to me what's particularly relevant with this Nvidia information is that hopefully it will spur on this modest increase in desktop usage to the point where more manufacturers will enter the market with machines either especially manufactured for Linux or that they improve their machines (with improved drivers etc.) so Linux becomes even more flexible and easier to use. It's all very well that Linux needs no introduction to the cognoscenti but a more visible and solid Linux desktop ecosystem would help to bring many technical and engineering users into the fold. I personally know of techies who are aware of the benefits of Linux but who are reluctant to switch from Windows for fear that their work may be disrupted by various gotchas. Even a slight improvement to Linux's desktop would likely shore up the ecosystem to the point where many of these tech-savvy users would be prepared to switch.
vkaku 2y ago
I doubt it. It's likely people might ditch their Windows machines to something like Steam Deck, and I don't think people have a remotely good reason to pick up a DIGITS system unless they want to run low end inference. The fact that there is no daily driver reason to pick up a Linux box that is DoA tells me this is being approached incorrectly. NVIDIA did not succeed at Android (I had a Shield) and they did not bother integrating x86 emulation nor any existing applications with WoA mean that they never thought of anything remotely useful that people seem to run on their existing computers. If NVIDIA actually cared and got SteamOS to run and integrated Blackwell Cores and Mediatek SoCs with it, wake me up. Until then, it will be a box on the shelf competing with the likes of the M4 Mac Mini.
solarkraft 2y ago
It’ll probably be cool for the desktop ARM ecosystem and people wanting small inference servers. Not sure about the rest.
hulitu 2y ago
> Thanks to Nvidia, there's a new generation of PCs coming and they'll run Linux What are these PCs ? Do they have any resemblance to PC architecture ? (UEFI, etc). Do they run stock kernels ? > But what about a $1,000 Blackwell PC from Acer, Asus, or Lenovo? All three of these companies are already selling MediaTek-powered Chromebooks. $1000 for a toy is too much.
btreecat 2y ago
SVN is such a shit-ass writer and keeps chirping with next to nothing backing up anything he publishes. I'm surprised his articles get any traction any more.
TwoNineFive 2y ago
What a bunch of paid marketing dribble.

69 points by CrankyBear 2y ago

This article is pure conjecture and doesn’t have anything to back up the title beyond “these brands also happen to use mediatek” and making a tenuous link between their Chromebook products and the Digit system.

teleforce 2y ago
There's also Lenovo with their upcoming Qualcomm Snapdragon X based desktop [1]. Between Qualcomm and Mediatek they produced probably more than 90% world's smartphone. If they start selling Linux desktops they will probably very popular if they have comparable performance with mainstream x86 based desktops but with more affordable price. [1] Lenovo announces world’s first mini desktop PCs powered by Snapdragon X chips: https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/desktop-computers/lenovo-announces-worlds-first-mini-desktop-pcs-powered-by-snapdragon-x-chips https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/desktop-computers/lenovo...
- pjmlp 2y ago
  We have already seen how this goes with EEE PCs, Chromebooks and Android. Don't expect your favourite distribution to be there instead of OEM XYZ Linux, that it will have zero binary blobs, or it will be routinely updated. And even if the hardware happens to be Linux friendly, other distros will need to reverse engineer as always.
  - teleforce 2y ago
    > We have already seen how this goes with EEE PCs, Chromebooks and Android Chromebooks (web based) and Android (smartphone) are not desktop oriented, while EEE PCs were non-performance devices mainly designed for Windows, its Linux version is an afterthought secondary product by Asus.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      So agreeing that OEMs don't really care much about Linux Desktop experience quality, nor put that much effort into it.
      - teleforce 2y ago
        It's apple to orange comparison with Eee PCs, Chromebooks and Android. For OEMs it's basically a demand and supply problem. If more users demand for desktop Linux as more performant desktop hardware available, then they start to make effort on the quality. We already see this in the cloud market where majority are Linux servers and the quality of the OEMs for servers now far surpass of Windows and BSDs. If majority of desktop users are using Linux the OEMs will ensure the quality is there for the users as they follow where the money is. Even now Nvidia is courting Linux on the GPU sides and now on the desktop sides as the article is referring to. As Linux also moving inroads to in-vehicle entertainment the computer vendors including Nvidia will up their game accordingly [1]. [1] Automotive Grade Linux Launches New Expert Group Led by Toyota: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42423199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42423199

Bancakes 2y ago

In the meanwhile, people with nvidia laptops can enjoy a blinking white cursor on a black display. Courtesy of nvidia Optimus and their “wonderful” first party linux support for it.

spookie 2y ago
It's quite easy to get a running Nvidia Optimus setup nowadays. Just go through arch wiki if on X, and just use drivers >560 for Wayland. Is there anything I'm not in the loop or?
- Bancakes 2y ago
  It’s great we recently got the feature for wayland. But for X it’s been a wild ride of bumblebee and using prime-run and full offloading for many years. The arch wiki is still not a first party solution. As it stands, no normal user should have to go through that. The best option I’ve found is to just stick with Pop!_OS - they have a switcher set up and it actually works. And once the user sets up Optimus, they can continue down the arch wiki for setting up hardware video decode on their browsers manually, and every other feature that nobody should have to mind.
  - zxvkhkxvdvbdxz 2y ago
    X is long dead. It is only reasonable for NVIDIA to focus on working wayland experience since that's where Linux desktop is. For hw-accel, just use nouveau and VA-API will work out of the box. (Yes, nvidia is contributing to nouveau these days).
    - Bancakes 2y ago
      X is anything but dead. XFCE and KDE have working x11 DEs. If anything, you get higher performance on it relative wayland in some use cases.[0][1] Nouveau last time I checked has practically no support for modern nvidia chips (read: 5 years ago to now) in CUDA, performance states, 2D, and 3D.[3] [0] https://www.phoronix.com/review/wayland-nv-amd-2023 https://www.phoronix.com/review/wayland-nv-amd-2023 [1] https://discuss.kde.org/t/wayland-vs-x-benchmarking-results-updated-july-30/19348 https://discuss.kde.org/t/wayland-vs-x-benchmarking-results-... [3] https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html

yalogin 2y ago

Why does any of that make sense? It’s an enterprise play for them. You see Mac minis used all over for their compact form factor behind tvs. This is a similar play for enterprises but development and IT deployment of AI chips. I don’t even know if it will pan out

lousken 2y ago

they were 5 years behind AMD on drivers, maybe now they're 3, so maybe in their next generation

hedora 2y ago

I think they’re saying that NVIDIA is already making high performance arm processors, and announced a high-end desktop arm that’ll run linux by default. Not sure though. It would let them compete with my Ryzen SoC mini-pc, assuming they fix their drivers (and get the linux taint bit to stay off).

n144q 2y ago

> But what about a $1,000 Blackwell PC from Acer, Asus, or Lenovo? Do they already exist, are they announced, or are these products in their roadmap? No? Then what on earth are we talking about here? The author really thinks people care about Linux desktop? No, people want laptops that works. I don't know what that means exactly, but I highly doubt we are anywhere close to thinking Linux desktop is usable for everyone.

berbec 2y ago

echo "$(($(date +%Y)+1)) is the year of the Linux desktop."

ramon156 2y ago

Even after reading I don't get why anyone would consider a laptop with nvidia over amd. Buying an amd thinkpad was one of my best choices of 2024

deaddodo 2y ago
I say this as someone happily using Linux on an all AMD laptop. The AMD GPUs still perform worse, generally. In overall performance, but especially in RT, CUDA, and other specified workloads. There's a reason the next (current?) gen high end AMD laptops are mostly switching to muxed Nvidia 4000s (ASUS, Razer, etc).
pjmlp 2y ago
CUDA and better graphics support for one.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

I'm curious to see whether they run any Linux, or just nvidia's Linux. Nvidia has a long history with "Linux for Tegra" (l4t) and "Jetson Linux", where it's nearly unheard of run to a regular boring Linux distribution. Instead there's a special magic distro Nvidia has cooked up that's essentially the only good way to use the hardware. If Nvidia actually starts building systems that behave like a reasonably supportable computer I'd be much more afraid of them.

pjmlp 2y ago
In all these systems expect OEM Linux to be the case. Even if they do support regular distros, that only works with the drivers they provide, and are naturally frozen to a specific kernel version.

ddmma 2y ago

So many ads and scrolling jumping around the page, such a mess of unreadable content old friend zdnet

OutOfHere 2y ago
It helps to use an ad blocker, even on mobile.

webprofusion 2y ago

Hmm, it's Arm and Windows most definitely runs on Arm, Microsoft already sell a bunch of Arm based Surface PCs. Yes Linux will definitely be one of the operating systems used on these new PCs, and they may even run Linux more often that not but if we assume computers largely exist for business to happen and money to be made, Windows is never that far away.

hilbert42 2y ago

"I know: "Year of the Linux desktop ... yadda, yadda." You've heard it all before. But now there's a Linux-powered PC that many people will want: Nvidia's Project Digits, …" I'm a Linux devotee but I doubt very much if there'll be a 'Year of the Linux desktop' anytime soon (as much as I'd like there to be one). Yes, I'm aware of the recent upsurge in Linux desktop usage to around 4% and that's a good thing but it's not going to usurp Windows in the near future, if ever. It seems to me what's particularly relevant with this Nvidia information is that hopefully it will spur on this modest increase in desktop usage to the point where more manufacturers will enter the market with machines either especially manufactured for Linux or that they improve their machines (with improved drivers etc.) so Linux becomes even more flexible and easier to use. It's all very well that Linux needs no introduction to the cognoscenti but a more visible and solid Linux desktop ecosystem would help to bring many technical and engineering users into the fold. I personally know of techies who are aware of the benefits of Linux but who are reluctant to switch from Windows for fear that their work may be disrupted by various gotchas. Even a slight improvement to Linux's desktop would likely shore up the ecosystem to the point where many of these tech-savvy users would be prepared to switch.

vkaku 2y ago

I doubt it. It's likely people might ditch their Windows machines to something like Steam Deck, and I don't think people have a remotely good reason to pick up a DIGITS system unless they want to run low end inference. The fact that there is no daily driver reason to pick up a Linux box that is DoA tells me this is being approached incorrectly. NVIDIA did not succeed at Android (I had a Shield) and they did not bother integrating x86 emulation nor any existing applications with WoA mean that they never thought of anything remotely useful that people seem to run on their existing computers. If NVIDIA actually cared and got SteamOS to run and integrated Blackwell Cores and Mediatek SoCs with it, wake me up. Until then, it will be a box on the shelf competing with the likes of the M4 Mac Mini.

solarkraft 2y ago

It’ll probably be cool for the desktop ARM ecosystem and people wanting small inference servers. Not sure about the rest.

hulitu 2y ago

> Thanks to Nvidia, there's a new generation of PCs coming and they'll run Linux What are these PCs ? Do they have any resemblance to PC architecture ? (UEFI, etc). Do they run stock kernels ? > But what about a $1,000 Blackwell PC from Acer, Asus, or Lenovo? All three of these companies are already selling MediaTek-powered Chromebooks. $1000 for a toy is too much.

btreecat 2y ago

SVN is such a shit-ass writer and keeps chirping with next to nothing backing up anything he publishes. I'm surprised his articles get any traction any more.

TwoNineFive 2y ago

What a bunch of paid marketing dribble.