6 ms·

Sam Altman failed upwards only because PG likes him. Aaron Swartz was actually a technical genius imo. DOJ never should of charged Swartz.

by b8 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tzury 2y ago
Define failure.
- kevingadd 2y ago
  Does Loopt count as a success? The exit was slightly more than the total investment, I guess. What about Worldcoin? He's at least not someone I naturally associate with business success pre-OpenAI (and the jury's still out on OpenAI considering their financial situation) but I suppose depending on how you evaluate it his success rate isn't 0%. You can say OpenAI is a "success" given their achievements in AI but those aren't Sam's work, he should mostly be credited with their business/financial performance and right now OpenAI-the-business is mostly a machine that burns electricity and operates in the red.
  - tzury 2y ago
    Loopt was not a success. But pg handing over the leadership of YC to him is indeed the father of all successes. That lead to OpenAI, which is not a “success”, rather the success story of the recent years.
baxtr 2y ago
Although I agree, I think your analysis could be enhanced by asking "why" a couple of times to get to the root. Why did PG "like" him?
- leoc 2y ago
  Alan Kay really liked him in 2016. https://youtu.be/fKcCwa_j8e0 https://youtu.be/fKcCwa_j8e0 I think Altman is very good at cultivating people. Mind you, it seems that Swartz got around by making dazzling impressions on people, too.
  - _zagj 2y ago
    >cultivating More like manipulating.
- bookaway 2y ago
  PG liked him, because Altman decided to go to great lengths to get PG to like him. While Drew, Chesky and the Collison brothers were busy building billion dollar companies, Altman took the “shortcut” and made a concerted effort to cozy up to the most powerful man in the room — and it payed dividends. Altman did the same thing in the early OpenAI days by doing flaterring video series interviews with Elon Musk, Vinod Khosla and others [0]. Incidentally, The YC interview with Elon Musk was done the year Musk made a donation to OpenAI (2016), I still remember PG’s essay where he gave Altman the ultimate character reference (2008) [1]: >When we predict good outcomes for startups, the qualities that come up in the supporting arguments are toughness, adaptability, determination. Which means to the extent we're correct, those are the qualities you need to win…Sam Altman has it. You could parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without them. (In retrospect, praising Altman for being the “king of cannibals” has a nice touch of gallows humor to it. Hilariously, even recently pg has a seemingly unintentional tendency to give Altman compliments that appear to be character warnings masquerading as compliments.) In 2009, pg included Altman in the top 5 in a list of the most interesting startup founders of the last 30 years.[2] If this was an observation made from afar, you could easily say it was “prescient”. But objectively at the time, no one could find any verifiable evidence in the real world to justify such an assessment. It wasn’t prescient because pg had became directly responsibly for Altman’s future success, in a case of self-fulfilling prophesy. Altman was often referenced in the acknowledgments of pg’s essays for reading early drafts and is probably referenced more than any other founder in the essays. Altman’s entire streetcred came from pg and also, once he made Altman head of YC, YC. From afar, it looks like a victory for office poltics, a skill incidentally that sociopaths are known to excel at. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBQmEqBCY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBQmEqBCY0 [1] https://www.paulgraham.com/fundraising.html https://www.paulgraham.com/fundraising.html [2] https://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html https://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html
  - anshulbhide 2y ago
    Wouldn't you agree though that from YC Head to being the driving force of OpenAI was largely due to his own merit. In fact, he started spending less time at YC and more time at OpenAI. At that time, OpenAI had no clear path to becoming the unicorn it is today, and YC was definitely better from a career standpoint. Instead, he went all-in on OpenAI, and the results are there for everyone to see.
leoc 2y ago
What’s the best evidence for Swartz’ technical genius?
- wesselbindt 2y ago
  My personal favorite is that he was part of authoring the RSS spec at age 14. But you're more than welcome to Google for other pieces of evidence yourself if you're genuinely interested and not just being argumentative.
  - LunaSea 2y ago
    Not that I disagree that with the idea that he was brilliant but the RSS spec isn't what I would consider a complex piece of documentation. Even for a 14 year old.
    - wesselbindt 2y ago
      What were you doing at 14?
      - xnickb 2y ago
        Not the person you asked, but I (in 2004) was part of sysadmin team at the school. I helped developing tools for automating many tasks around teacher and student performance measurement and tracking. I also wrote a piece of software that went super viral among sysadmins all over the city and I was getting "thank you" emails for years after. Had anyone been developing RSS spec next to me I'd definitely jump on it. As any 14 y/o would. I don't think I'm particularly brilliant or even smart. Your circle defines you. Surround any healthy teenager with interest in tech with the right people and they'll have a lot to show in no time
        leoc 2y ago
        Being well-educated and well-connected doesn't necessarily mean you aren't great. The Sutherland boys were famously hanging out with Edmund Berkeley at his computer lab while they were still children, thanks to their mum knowing Berkeley through the General Semantics scene https://spectrum.ieee.org/sketchpad https://spectrum.ieee.org/sketchpad https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2023/02/102738195-05-01-acc.pdf https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/20... . It was also luck, as well as skill, that got Ivan enjoying sole use of the gigantic, cutting-edge TX-2 for hours every week in the early '60s. You nevertheless still have to hand it to him for creating flipping Sketchpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad in 1963 at the age of 24. On the other hand, Ivan Sutherland had created Sketchpad before he turned 25.
tcptomato 2y ago
> should of charged what?
- stewartmcgown 2y ago
  Common mistake in English, usually the writer means "should've".
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Sam Altman failed upwards only because PG likes him. Aaron Swartz was actually a technical genius imo. DOJ never should of charged Swartz.

by b8 2y ago

Sam Altman failed upwards only because PG likes him. Aaron Swartz was actually a technical genius imo. DOJ never should of charged Swartz.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tzury 2y ago

Define failure.

kevingadd 2y ago
Does Loopt count as a success? The exit was slightly more than the total investment, I guess. What about Worldcoin? He's at least not someone I naturally associate with business success pre-OpenAI (and the jury's still out on OpenAI considering their financial situation) but I suppose depending on how you evaluate it his success rate isn't 0%. You can say OpenAI is a "success" given their achievements in AI but those aren't Sam's work, he should mostly be credited with their business/financial performance and right now OpenAI-the-business is mostly a machine that burns electricity and operates in the red.
- tzury 2y ago
  Loopt was not a success. But pg handing over the leadership of YC to him is indeed the father of all successes. That lead to OpenAI, which is not a “success”, rather the success story of the recent years.

baxtr 2y ago

Although I agree, I think your analysis could be enhanced by asking "why" a couple of times to get to the root. Why did PG "like" him?

leoc 2y ago
Alan Kay really liked him in 2016. https://youtu.be/fKcCwa_j8e0 https://youtu.be/fKcCwa_j8e0 I think Altman is very good at cultivating people. Mind you, it seems that Swartz got around by making dazzling impressions on people, too.
- _zagj 2y ago
  >cultivating More like manipulating.
bookaway 2y ago
PG liked him, because Altman decided to go to great lengths to get PG to like him. While Drew, Chesky and the Collison brothers were busy building billion dollar companies, Altman took the “shortcut” and made a concerted effort to cozy up to the most powerful man in the room — and it payed dividends. Altman did the same thing in the early OpenAI days by doing flaterring video series interviews with Elon Musk, Vinod Khosla and others [0]. Incidentally, The YC interview with Elon Musk was done the year Musk made a donation to OpenAI (2016), I still remember PG’s essay where he gave Altman the ultimate character reference (2008) [1]: >When we predict good outcomes for startups, the qualities that come up in the supporting arguments are toughness, adaptability, determination. Which means to the extent we're correct, those are the qualities you need to win…Sam Altman has it. You could parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without them. (In retrospect, praising Altman for being the “king of cannibals” has a nice touch of gallows humor to it. Hilariously, even recently pg has a seemingly unintentional tendency to give Altman compliments that appear to be character warnings masquerading as compliments.) In 2009, pg included Altman in the top 5 in a list of the most interesting startup founders of the last 30 years.[2] If this was an observation made from afar, you could easily say it was “prescient”. But objectively at the time, no one could find any verifiable evidence in the real world to justify such an assessment. It wasn’t prescient because pg had became directly responsibly for Altman’s future success, in a case of self-fulfilling prophesy. Altman was often referenced in the acknowledgments of pg’s essays for reading early drafts and is probably referenced more than any other founder in the essays. Altman’s entire streetcred came from pg and also, once he made Altman head of YC, YC. From afar, it looks like a victory for office poltics, a skill incidentally that sociopaths are known to excel at. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBQmEqBCY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBQmEqBCY0 [1] https://www.paulgraham.com/fundraising.html https://www.paulgraham.com/fundraising.html [2] https://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html https://www.paulgraham.com/5founders.html
- anshulbhide 2y ago
  Wouldn't you agree though that from YC Head to being the driving force of OpenAI was largely due to his own merit. In fact, he started spending less time at YC and more time at OpenAI. At that time, OpenAI had no clear path to becoming the unicorn it is today, and YC was definitely better from a career standpoint. Instead, he went all-in on OpenAI, and the results are there for everyone to see.

leoc 2y ago

What’s the best evidence for Swartz’ technical genius?

wesselbindt 2y ago
My personal favorite is that he was part of authoring the RSS spec at age 14. But you're more than welcome to Google for other pieces of evidence yourself if you're genuinely interested and not just being argumentative.
- LunaSea 2y ago
  Not that I disagree that with the idea that he was brilliant but the RSS spec isn't what I would consider a complex piece of documentation. Even for a 14 year old.
  - wesselbindt 2y ago
    What were you doing at 14?
    - xnickb 2y ago
      Not the person you asked, but I (in 2004) was part of sysadmin team at the school. I helped developing tools for automating many tasks around teacher and student performance measurement and tracking. I also wrote a piece of software that went super viral among sysadmins all over the city and I was getting "thank you" emails for years after. Had anyone been developing RSS spec next to me I'd definitely jump on it. As any 14 y/o would. I don't think I'm particularly brilliant or even smart. Your circle defines you. Surround any healthy teenager with interest in tech with the right people and they'll have a lot to show in no time
      - leoc 2y ago
        Being well-educated and well-connected doesn't necessarily mean you aren't great. The Sutherland boys were famously hanging out with Edmund Berkeley at his computer lab while they were still children, thanks to their mum knowing Berkeley through the General Semantics scene https://spectrum.ieee.org/sketchpad https://spectrum.ieee.org/sketchpad https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2023/02/102738195-05-01-acc.pdf https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/20... . It was also luck, as well as skill, that got Ivan enjoying sole use of the gigantic, cutting-edge TX-2 for hours every week in the early '60s. You nevertheless still have to hand it to him for creating flipping Sketchpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad in 1963 at the age of 24. On the other hand, Ivan Sutherland had created Sketchpad before he turned 25.

tcptomato 2y ago

> should of charged what?

stewartmcgown 2y ago
Common mistake in English, usually the writer means "should've".

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]