4 ms·

If you were wondering if there was any issue even less important to Americans than the lives of pedestrians and cyclists, it is dark skies.

darthoctopus 2y ago
why is this downvoted? the specific cities (notably in Arizona) that have taken deliberate action on this are exceptions proving the general rule that light pollution is demonstrably less of a policy concern even compared to the notorious American disdain for walkable infrastructure.
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago
  The telescopes are 8,000 miles south of America. Why does American policy matter?
  - ggm 2y ago
    Because the goods made will be sold to American consumers directly and indirectly and are priced to reflect all kinds of costs including EPA compliance in domestic markets. European markets also demand European norms to labour and health and environment are met, even if tokenistically. To some it is a form of protectionism. It's also the "why can't we make it here" reasoning. If you tried to make it in the US it would be white anted out by lawfare. That's what happened to BHP when they proposed metals and minerals processing plants on the Californian coast.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      Ammonia and hydrogen are essentially energy export mechanisms. They'll be exported to energy poor places, aka Asia, not America. they can and are made in America without fanfare. You wouldn't have states fighting to exlude green hydrogen or ammonia plants, you'd have states competing on how many subsidies they could give them.
      - ggm 2y ago
        Arguably, very likely true. But the fertiliser (the other ammonia product, the one we do mostly now the others being somewhat futurological) will I am sure sell worldwide. I'm personally sceptical about the hydrogen economy I can't see it working. It's biggish in some Australian circles, both because of IPR around the processes and people in related fields looking at uses for surplus solar power. Twiggy Forrest was big in it, wanted the sun cable proposal to pivot over, its partly why the JV with Cannon Brookes fell apart. My comment was to the more general "why can't we have nice things" about industrial placement. I spent time in Culpeper and the number of "no more Datacentre" signs were amazing. Old folks who retired to the country don't want them build nearby. It's a large federal and private investment in tech services. And growing.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - a1j9o94 2y ago
    It's also an American company building the project. The cultural values of the US are relevant.
  - hnmias 2y ago
    I know the crowd here (mostly from USA) hates this kind of comment, but as a SOUTH AMERICAN, can I point out the absurdity of this kind of sentence? Chile is a South American country, in the American continent, and is 8000 miles south of America somehow. I know the why's and the meaning intented, no need to explain. Wont stop pointing this out though, as it will always feel to me as a example of the general disregard USA has for its neighbours.
    - broptimist 2y ago
      Despite not asking for an explanation, I’ll give one anyway since you seem not to have resolved your grievance. “American” is the correct adjective in English to describe the United States’ people and government. There is simply no equivalent to the Spanish “estadounidense.” Furthermore, North America and South America are considered to be separate continents, and if you want to refer to them both together, you say “the Americas”, plural. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - losvedir 2y ago
      > in the American continent I think it's worth pointing out that "the American continent" is not how geography is taught in the US. There's seven continents, one of which is North America and one of which is South America. So you're making a point which only makes sense in Spanish, in the context of your own education. There's no ambiguity in the US since the only thing "America" can refer to is the USA. I'm curious how it's taught for you about Europe and Asia. We learn those as separate continents, too, even though it's one land mass. For that matter, Africa is as connected to Asia as South America is to North America, but I'm almost certain you consider Africa its own continent, right?
kortilla 2y ago
Disagree. Or at least it’s a different set of people generally very supportive of dark skies. There are many dark sky communities in the southwest that are otherwise standard car centric unwalkable american towns.
seattle_spring 2y ago
Which is too bad, because it takes a special kind of heartless, empathy-lacking ghoul to disregard such things that make life on this Earth worth living to so many people.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  Pretty fucked up to say that people that don't have dark skies even on their radar with everything going on right now are heartless and lacking empathy. It shows a gross misunderstanding of the average person today and really shows your lack of empathy. I shoot astro, I love it. I wish skies were darker. But I certainly don't blame my comrades for not giving two fucks about how the sky looks when they are asleep after working two jobs to pay rent.
  - otteromkram 2y ago
    "...when they are asleep after working two jobs to pay rent." No one else sleeps or works, right? Plus, who knows why they work more than one job. Maybe they were "too smart" for school, found out later that they weren't, and now are grasping to close the gap due to hubris and ignorance early on in their life. No shame in making up for lost time/wages, but that's not our fault and we shouldn't have to constantly bend and bow in order to appease the LCD crowd.
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      If you're surprised the night sky isn't top on people's minds today, you live in a very different world than most.
    - bburnett44 2y ago
      This is a pretty crazy comment
- fastball 2y ago
  > so many people How many people get "things that make life worth living" from the Paranal Observatory every year?
exe34 2y ago
[flagged]
- nichos 2y ago
  I don't know of any Americans that advocate for shooting of school children.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    They said it's low importance to a ton of people, not that those people want the opposite.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      I don't think that's really supported. It's not number one above all else, but I don't think you can infer ranking from action. I would argue that for most people their personal safety and that of their family is near the top of the list over 90% of the issues. Gun murder still exist, but that just goes to show that safety isn't the number one goal
      - exe34 2y ago
        > I don't think you can infer ranking from action. classic case of watch what they do, not what they say.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        what does that mean in this context? What do you think it is above or below?
  - exe34 2y ago
    did you miss the "not" in the sentence?
otteromkram 2y ago
I would say quiet. Every place I've moves to in recent years looks nice, but you can't enjoy it because passenger cars and trucks have gotten louder without restraint or consequence. This doesn't mean right next to a major freeway, either; half-a-mile (about a kilometer) or more away from most 4-lane roads isn't far enough. For an example, look up how many tickets in any given city have been issued for an improperly maintained exhaust system. Police only care about speeding tickets. So much so, that even if a noisy "sports" car is pulled over for speeding, they won't be issued a noise citation in concert. Why? ACAB. Cops probably drive around in noisy cars/trucks after work (and some jurisdictions have police cruisers with a throaty exhaust because of course they do), so ticketing those violations isn't in their own best interest. Anyway, noise is way more of an IDGAF issue for any city in the US.

darthoctopus 2y ago

why is this downvoted? the specific cities (notably in Arizona) that have taken deliberate action on this are exceptions proving the general rule that light pollution is demonstrably less of a policy concern even compared to the notorious American disdain for walkable infrastructure.

WorkerBee28474 2y ago
The telescopes are 8,000 miles south of America. Why does American policy matter?
- ggm 2y ago
  Because the goods made will be sold to American consumers directly and indirectly and are priced to reflect all kinds of costs including EPA compliance in domestic markets. European markets also demand European norms to labour and health and environment are met, even if tokenistically. To some it is a form of protectionism. It's also the "why can't we make it here" reasoning. If you tried to make it in the US it would be white anted out by lawfare. That's what happened to BHP when they proposed metals and minerals processing plants on the Californian coast.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Ammonia and hydrogen are essentially energy export mechanisms. They'll be exported to energy poor places, aka Asia, not America. they can and are made in America without fanfare. You wouldn't have states fighting to exlude green hydrogen or ammonia plants, you'd have states competing on how many subsidies they could give them.
    - ggm 2y ago
      Arguably, very likely true. But the fertiliser (the other ammonia product, the one we do mostly now the others being somewhat futurological) will I am sure sell worldwide. I'm personally sceptical about the hydrogen economy I can't see it working. It's biggish in some Australian circles, both because of IPR around the processes and people in related fields looking at uses for surplus solar power. Twiggy Forrest was big in it, wanted the sun cable proposal to pivot over, its partly why the JV with Cannon Brookes fell apart. My comment was to the more general "why can't we have nice things" about industrial placement. I spent time in Culpeper and the number of "no more Datacentre" signs were amazing. Old folks who retired to the country don't want them build nearby. It's a large federal and private investment in tech services. And growing.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- a1j9o94 2y ago
  It's also an American company building the project. The cultural values of the US are relevant.
- hnmias 2y ago
  I know the crowd here (mostly from USA) hates this kind of comment, but as a SOUTH AMERICAN, can I point out the absurdity of this kind of sentence? Chile is a South American country, in the American continent, and is 8000 miles south of America somehow. I know the why's and the meaning intented, no need to explain. Wont stop pointing this out though, as it will always feel to me as a example of the general disregard USA has for its neighbours.
  - broptimist 2y ago
    Despite not asking for an explanation, I’ll give one anyway since you seem not to have resolved your grievance. “American” is the correct adjective in English to describe the United States’ people and government. There is simply no equivalent to the Spanish “estadounidense.” Furthermore, North America and South America are considered to be separate continents, and if you want to refer to them both together, you say “the Americas”, plural. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - losvedir 2y ago
    > in the American continent I think it's worth pointing out that "the American continent" is not how geography is taught in the US. There's seven continents, one of which is North America and one of which is South America. So you're making a point which only makes sense in Spanish, in the context of your own education. There's no ambiguity in the US since the only thing "America" can refer to is the USA. I'm curious how it's taught for you about Europe and Asia. We learn those as separate continents, too, even though it's one land mass. For that matter, Africa is as connected to Asia as South America is to North America, but I'm almost certain you consider Africa its own continent, right?

kortilla 2y ago

Disagree. Or at least it’s a different set of people generally very supportive of dark skies. There are many dark sky communities in the southwest that are otherwise standard car centric unwalkable american towns.

seattle_spring 2y ago

Which is too bad, because it takes a special kind of heartless, empathy-lacking ghoul to disregard such things that make life on this Earth worth living to so many people.

bongodongobob 2y ago
Pretty fucked up to say that people that don't have dark skies even on their radar with everything going on right now are heartless and lacking empathy. It shows a gross misunderstanding of the average person today and really shows your lack of empathy. I shoot astro, I love it. I wish skies were darker. But I certainly don't blame my comrades for not giving two fucks about how the sky looks when they are asleep after working two jobs to pay rent.
- otteromkram 2y ago
  "...when they are asleep after working two jobs to pay rent." No one else sleeps or works, right? Plus, who knows why they work more than one job. Maybe they were "too smart" for school, found out later that they weren't, and now are grasping to close the gap due to hubris and ignorance early on in their life. No shame in making up for lost time/wages, but that's not our fault and we shouldn't have to constantly bend and bow in order to appease the LCD crowd.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    If you're surprised the night sky isn't top on people's minds today, you live in a very different world than most.
  - bburnett44 2y ago
    This is a pretty crazy comment
fastball 2y ago
> so many people How many people get "things that make life worth living" from the Paranal Observatory every year?

exe34 2y ago

[flagged]

nichos 2y ago
I don't know of any Americans that advocate for shooting of school children.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  They said it's low importance to a ton of people, not that those people want the opposite.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I don't think that's really supported. It's not number one above all else, but I don't think you can infer ranking from action. I would argue that for most people their personal safety and that of their family is near the top of the list over 90% of the issues. Gun murder still exist, but that just goes to show that safety isn't the number one goal
    - exe34 2y ago
      > I don't think you can infer ranking from action. classic case of watch what they do, not what they say.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        what does that mean in this context? What do you think it is above or below?
- exe34 2y ago
  did you miss the "not" in the sentence?

otteromkram 2y ago

I would say quiet. Every place I've moves to in recent years looks nice, but you can't enjoy it because passenger cars and trucks have gotten louder without restraint or consequence. This doesn't mean right next to a major freeway, either; half-a-mile (about a kilometer) or more away from most 4-lane roads isn't far enough. For an example, look up how many tickets in any given city have been issued for an improperly maintained exhaust system. Police only care about speeding tickets. So much so, that even if a noisy "sports" car is pulled over for speeding, they won't be issued a noise citation in concert. Why? ACAB. Cops probably drive around in noisy cars/trucks after work (and some jurisdictions have police cruisers with a throaty exhaust because of course they do), so ticketing those violations isn't in their own best interest. Anyway, noise is way more of an IDGAF issue for any city in the US.