4 ms·
Scanning ultrasound removes amyloid-β, restores memory in Alzheimer mouse model (2015)
- andrewstuart 2y agoThings are so good medically for mice.
- sneak 2y agoGiven that there doesn’t appear to be any harms from this treatment, why is it moral (or legal) to prevent humans from experimentally seeking it, standard “in mice” argument notwithstanding?
- wetpaws 2y ago[dead]
- deepnet 2y agoUltrasound selfies at home, clinical trial reports self administered ultrasound scans on par with professional ones. https://www.nibib.nih.gov/news-events/newsroom/ultrasound-selfies-little-training-patients-could-produce-high-quality-medical-images-home https://www.nibib.nih.gov/news-events/newsroom/ultrasound-se...
- andy_ppp 2y agoI don’t disagree but an issue could be that there’s plenty of people out there who would happily make up therapies that sound like they could work and take people’s money for unsound treatments.
- gklitz 2y agoThe framework for clinical trials it to go from “there doesn’t appear to be any harm” to “we have reasonable proof that no harm is expected”. If this is as promising as it sounds it’ll surely process through the stages as it should and eventually reach human trials.
- celdon25 2y agoEventually plus 10 years, as this article is 10 years old.
- nine_k 2y agoBusiness opportunity: add a 2 MHz ultrasound enmitter to standard headphones.
- aeve890 2y agoI'll deep-fry and eat a brick and wash it down with motor oil if Apple ended up curing Alzheimer's
- mmastrac 2y agoWhy would ultrasound removal of amyloid-B be effective while other chemical/medical treatments offering the same would not?
- Krssst 2y ago> Transgenic mice with increased amyloid-β (Aβ) production Looks to me they increased amyloid-B then removed the increase, which solved symptoms. I don't know much about this but my understanding was that Alzheimer disease had to have a bit more going on than just amyloid-B accumulation.
- resoluteteeth 2y agoYes that is the major potential problem with this type of mouse model in general. Mice are modified to have a condition that resembles something like alzheimer's disease and then treatments are tested, but there's no guarantee that the underlying disease is actually the same, so if the condition that is induced in the mice is just a symptom rather than the underlying cause of the human disease, or just superficially resembles it, the treatment may not actually be effective in humans.
- rich_sasha 2y agoMy understanding is, it's definitely true that the amyloid protein is toxic to brain tissue. It's just that targeting that tissue has not, to date, lead to a breakthrough. I suppose in principle it could be because we don't ha e good ways to remove them, and this is it.
- hnuser123456 2y agoPercussive maintenance is sometimes the most effective option.
- pera 2y ago> Anti-amyloids are expensive, and insurance won’t always cover them https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/anti-amyloid-therapies-alzheimers https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/anti-amyloid-therapies-alzh... > the key reason donanemab isn’t available through the NHS is its cost. The treatment is estimated to cost around £25,000 a year per patient https://theconversation.com/alzheimers-drug-approved-in-the-uk-but-it-wont-be-available-on-the-nhs-heres-why-242127 https://theconversation.com/alzheimers-drug-approved-in-the-...
- twasold 2y agoThis needs (2015). Surely if ultrasound was effective in replicated studies we’d have a treatment by now, right? Or have heard more about it?
- dsjoerg 2y ago[flagged]
- pstuart 2y agoIt takes a long time to go from the lab to commercialized use.
- YZF 2y agoThis assumes anyone attempted to replicate it or otherwise pursue it. I guess the question would be where are the studies that failed to replicate it. I have friends that work in the medical tech field. A device they started developing around 2009 is barely getting into the field now after animal trials and clinical trials around the globe. It's an extremely long process requiring a lot of capital. And you likely haven't heard of it either (it is pretty effective for treating some heart related issues). There are plenty of animal studies that show some promise that are simply abandoned for various reasons. All that said, I thought the hypothesis that those amyloids are the cause of Alzheimers hasn't really worked out, there were other drugs that targetted those and apparently didn't work that well.
- boxed 2y agohttps://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13195-021-00809-4 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13195-021-00809-4 (2021) is the second hit on google scholar. Sounds a bit more involved than just ultrasound. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13195-022-00981-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13195-022-00981-1 sounds mildly promising in one way, and disappointing viewed another way...
- dingdingdang 2y agoAny indication of what frequencies are at play here? A regular ultrasound baby monitor is set at either 3Mhz or 2Mhz scan frequency and those have already been shown to induce stimulating effect when used on the head/brain afaicr.
- transistor-man 2y agoThis paper was submitted march 2015, have there been subsequent studies in the last decade?
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- yalogin 2y agoDoesn’t this raise more questions though? If ultrasound impacts chemicals in the body, what about other forms of waves? Do we still have to find out how the body reacts to different frequencies and wavelengths?
- sokka_h2otribe 2y agoThe impact of ultrasound on dissolving and breaking things in liquid is well studied in general engineering. I don't understand your open ended question about this raising questions. How so? We don't use microwaves for dissolving or breaking crystals anyway like we already do for ultrasound.
- yalogin 2y agoAh I did not know it’s already understood, so assumed we are finding it out for the first time. The above comment was a mistake then, it’s how misinformation and scaremongering starts
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- snitty 2y agoIf we haven't seen positive results in humans I'm gonna guess it being a lot harder to push ultrasound through a human skull than a mouse skull is part of the reason.
- magic_smoke_ee 2y agoThere's the possibility of damaging side-effects in humans using energy levels high enough to replicate the mouse model.
- hkt 2y agoMy immediate question here is do other frequencies work? I'd quite enjoy learning that, for instance, listening to drum and bass loudly with headphones can restore memory in Alzheimer's. A touch unserious, but medically approved musical diets would be magnificent.
- justlikereddit 2y agoMusic can supposedu improve Alzheimers symptoms, there was a lot of social media noise about it a few years ago.(And commentary on how elderly sit isolated in silence most of their time)
- magic_smoke_ee 2y ago34.88 and 42.55 THz (Mid-wavelength IR) Potential terahertz therapeutic strategy for the prevention or mitigation of Alzheimer’s disease pathology https://www.nature.com/articles/s41377-023-01289-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41377-023-01289-x
- walterbell 2y ago1Mhz ultrasonic _physical_ therapy devices are under $100, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3810427/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3810427/ (2012) > Applications of ultrasound in medicine for therapeutic purposes have been an accepted and beneficial use of ultrasonic biological effects for many years. Low power ultrasound of about 1 MHz frequency has been widely applied since the 1950s for physical therapy.. In this overview, the Bioeffects Committee outlines the wide range of therapeutic ultrasound methods, which are in clinical use or under study, and provides general guidance for assuring therapeutic ultrasound safety.
- tonetegeatinst 2y agoFor ultrasound, are only certain frequencys possible or are they just not manufactured? I know basically nothing except ultrasound being used for the ultrasonic cleaning devices I see some youtubers using.
- ruined 2y agoyou can buy a veterinary ultrasound machine on ebay for under $3k, btw. if anyone tries this let me know how it goes
- mikewarot 2y agoYou know the brain is about the consistency of jelly, right? If you were to induce cavitation, that could cause quite a bit of brain damage in nothing flat. First person experimentation is a distinctly bad idea. The other is also a bad idea.
- Suppafly 2y ago>You know the brain is about the consistency of jelly, right? If you were to induce cavitation, that could cause quite a bit of brain damage in nothing flat. They use them on pregnant women's fetuses, so I imagine using one on an adult skull wouldn't be that big of a deal.
- mikewarot 2y agoYes, people trained in their use on approved and maintained equipment do that. I'm worried about people who just pick up any old ultrasound transducer and think more power is better. What if it was intended for Lithotripsy or industrial use? Everything could end in an instant.
- justlikereddit 2y agoI do ultrasound on infant brains(and other tissues) regularly with a human rated ultrasound scanning probe. It is deemed completely safe. The properties of a veterinary scanning probe will be similar(almost certainly identical, mammalian tissue is mammalian tissue). But you can also get human rated probes for $2k so no point in getting a vet one for $3k Cavitation applications in ultrasound uses a different range of frequencies and designs, the scanning probes are 1-25mhz
- technojunkie 2y ago60 minutes did a segment for this type of treatment at WVU Rockefeller Neuroscience in West Virginia. It's intriguing. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neurosurgeon-works-to-slow-alzheimers-progression-treat-drug-addiction-60-minutes-transcript/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neurosurgeon-works-to-slow-alzh...
- beams_of_light 2y agoI watched that last year. It's very interesting research and seems effective not just for Alzheimers but for treatment of addiction as well. I'm seriously counting on this treatment for any family members who may end up being diagnosed with it later in life.
- tim333 2y agoyoutube thereof https://youtu.be/7BGtVJ3lBdE https://youtu.be/7BGtVJ3lBdE
- yowayb 2y agoCommunity, exercise, species-appropriate diet, and psychological richness also reduce the risk of Alzheimer's and a variety of neurological disorders.