5 ms·

TikTok Says It Will 'Go Dark' Without US Court Intervention

19 points by this_weekend 2y ago

andyjohnson0 2y ago
Trump has stated that he's against this ban. But my working assumption is that Meta's recent announcements around moderation, diversity, and new execs are a quid pro quo for Trump supporting to the ban in office.
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  The Supreme Court seems poised to uphold the ban though, based on recent oral arguments ¹, in which case Trump would face some pretty significant hurdles in trying to overturn it. The bill has already been signed into law by President Biden. Trump would have to try to get a new bill through congress to overturn the previous TikTok ban bill. ¹ https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-tiktok-china-speech-security-72fa68dd677df96a3b3526a1bddb0aa8 https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-tiktok-china-speech...
  - andyjohnson0 2y ago
    My theory was that Meta offered Trump what he wanted partly in return for changing his stated position to support the ban. Given that the SC now seems likely to uphold the ban, Trump wouldn't have to do anything.
    - nozzlegear 2y ago
      Ah I understand, that's an interesting theory and would explain why Meta's suddenly reversing/changing course on a bunch of their policies.
ironyman 2y ago
Two interesting things can be infered from this: 1. TikTok would literally rather shut itself off from its largest market, than divest its ownership from PRC; says a lot about who's really in control here. 2. They really believe they have an edge in their algorithm that they would rather go dark than divulge it. Tiktok's tentative US buyers (probably a consortium led by Steve Mnuchin or Jeff Yass) says there is no way the Chinese have the technological edge here and US engineers can successfully replicate it so I lean towards no. 1.
- muddi900 2y ago
  Then why haven't they? Why is Instagram full of boomer normie slop? You can say youtube is close, but Shorts aren't their prime source of income.
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    Instagram is full of boomer normies because Instagram is full of boomer normies. Tiktok may have an interesting algorithm but it certainly has a different crowd and culture of what to post than other platforms.
    - wenc 2y ago
      I've heard it like this: FB: Boomer, Gen-X, Older Millenial -- sharing stuff with friends and family. Insta: Millenial and Gen-Z -- visual story telling. TikTok: Gen-Z -- entertainment. I'm from the BBS days, and I use FB for the Groups. Insta/Tiktok don't really have groups.
- beardyw 2y ago
  The alternative would be that they say they will probably capitulate. How would that help them?
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  Is it true that the lawyers have argued against US gov's interest in reducing CCP's propaganda in an effort to overturn the case? I realize lawyers don't represent the truth, just the law, but that is not a good look if so.
- etothet 2y ago
  If #2 os true, then why don’t any of the other similar app or features of other apps work as well as TikTok from a technical standpoint? My experience with TikTok is that purely from an execution standpoint of showing a video, being able to manipulate it (scrub through, alter speed, show/hide comments, etc), and then show another video immediately, no other applications - or the similar features of Instagram and YouTube - come close. Not to mention how successful the TikTok shop is.
csomar 2y ago
https://archive.is/jQRhn https://archive.is/jQRhn
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wtcactus 2y ago
Good. The fact that TikTok has basically two different apps. One showing pedagogical content in China, and another fine tuned for disinformation and dissent they show in the west, tells me they are a tool from the Chinese oppressive government to undermine democratic countries. I’m glad they are about to be shut down. https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-between-tik-tok-in-china-and-the-us/ https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-betwe...
- jmclnx 2y ago
  Same here but for a totally different reason. As I mentioned before, until US Based social media is given the same access in China as TikTok has in the US, they should be banned in the US. This believe goes back to "reciprocally", that used to (still is?) a big part of diplomacy in the past.
- krapp 2y ago
  Every Western social media platform is fine tuned for disinformation and dissent, and when it's neo-nazis or flat-earthers or anti-vaxxers or people planning a violent larp on the White House, Americans will (at least claim to) defend it to the death, because free speech and dissent are absolute, inviolate rights granted by God. TikTok is simply giving the West what it wants, and what already works in our market. The issue you have is with the mirror TikTok is putting up to the cesspool that is American culture, not with China doing what is just good business.
  - jaredhallen 2y ago
    I agree with calling out the hypocrisy of the parent comment, but this reply seems to be taking things a little far the other direction. On the Western side, it's a cesspool culture, but on the Chinese side it's good business?
    - krapp 2y ago
      On the Chinese side it's good business to appeal to the cesspool, because that's what Western platforms are also doing, and succeeding at. If they ran TikTok in the West they same way they do in China, with as many quality of life and content restrictions, it wouldn't work. One might argue that that enforcing screen time limits, maybe age requirements, and having algorithms prioritize educational (and propaganda) content would result in a better, healthier and less toxic social media environment but many Americans would consider that nanny-state censorship and mind control and such an app wouldn't be as entertaining or popular. The only reason it works in China is a degree of authoritarian control over media that isn't (currently) legal here. I don't doubt that given a more free market TikTok would be forced to regress to the same mean.

19 points by this_weekend 2y ago

Trump has stated that he's against this ban. But my working assumption is that Meta's recent announcements around moderation, diversity, and new execs are a quid pro quo for Trump supporting to the ban in office.

nozzlegear 2y ago
The Supreme Court seems poised to uphold the ban though, based on recent oral arguments ¹, in which case Trump would face some pretty significant hurdles in trying to overturn it. The bill has already been signed into law by President Biden. Trump would have to try to get a new bill through congress to overturn the previous TikTok ban bill. ¹ https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-tiktok-china-speech-security-72fa68dd677df96a3b3526a1bddb0aa8 https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-tiktok-china-speech...
- andyjohnson0 2y ago
  My theory was that Meta offered Trump what he wanted partly in return for changing his stated position to support the ban. Given that the SC now seems likely to uphold the ban, Trump wouldn't have to do anything.
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    Ah I understand, that's an interesting theory and would explain why Meta's suddenly reversing/changing course on a bunch of their policies.

ironyman 2y ago

Two interesting things can be infered from this: 1. TikTok would literally rather shut itself off from its largest market, than divest its ownership from PRC; says a lot about who's really in control here. 2. They really believe they have an edge in their algorithm that they would rather go dark than divulge it. Tiktok's tentative US buyers (probably a consortium led by Steve Mnuchin or Jeff Yass) says there is no way the Chinese have the technological edge here and US engineers can successfully replicate it so I lean towards no. 1.

muddi900 2y ago
Then why haven't they? Why is Instagram full of boomer normie slop? You can say youtube is close, but Shorts aren't their prime source of income.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  Instagram is full of boomer normies because Instagram is full of boomer normies. Tiktok may have an interesting algorithm but it certainly has a different crowd and culture of what to post than other platforms.
  - wenc 2y ago
    I've heard it like this: FB: Boomer, Gen-X, Older Millenial -- sharing stuff with friends and family. Insta: Millenial and Gen-Z -- visual story telling. TikTok: Gen-Z -- entertainment. I'm from the BBS days, and I use FB for the Groups. Insta/Tiktok don't really have groups.
beardyw 2y ago
The alternative would be that they say they will probably capitulate. How would that help them?
jvanderbot 2y ago
Is it true that the lawyers have argued against US gov's interest in reducing CCP's propaganda in an effort to overturn the case? I realize lawyers don't represent the truth, just the law, but that is not a good look if so.
etothet 2y ago
If #2 os true, then why don’t any of the other similar app or features of other apps work as well as TikTok from a technical standpoint? My experience with TikTok is that purely from an execution standpoint of showing a video, being able to manipulate it (scrub through, alter speed, show/hide comments, etc), and then show another video immediately, no other applications - or the similar features of Instagram and YouTube - come close. Not to mention how successful the TikTok shop is.

csomar 2y ago

https://archive.is/jQRhn https://archive.is/jQRhn

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

wtcactus 2y ago

Good. The fact that TikTok has basically two different apps. One showing pedagogical content in China, and another fine tuned for disinformation and dissent they show in the west, tells me they are a tool from the Chinese oppressive government to undermine democratic countries. I’m glad they are about to be shut down. https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-between-tik-tok-in-china-and-the-us/ https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-betwe...

jmclnx 2y ago
Same here but for a totally different reason. As I mentioned before, until US Based social media is given the same access in China as TikTok has in the US, they should be banned in the US. This believe goes back to "reciprocally", that used to (still is?) a big part of diplomacy in the past.
krapp 2y ago
Every Western social media platform is fine tuned for disinformation and dissent, and when it's neo-nazis or flat-earthers or anti-vaxxers or people planning a violent larp on the White House, Americans will (at least claim to) defend it to the death, because free speech and dissent are absolute, inviolate rights granted by God. TikTok is simply giving the West what it wants, and what already works in our market. The issue you have is with the mirror TikTok is putting up to the cesspool that is American culture, not with China doing what is just good business.
- jaredhallen 2y ago
  I agree with calling out the hypocrisy of the parent comment, but this reply seems to be taking things a little far the other direction. On the Western side, it's a cesspool culture, but on the Chinese side it's good business?
  - krapp 2y ago
    On the Chinese side it's good business to appeal to the cesspool, because that's what Western platforms are also doing, and succeeding at. If they ran TikTok in the West they same way they do in China, with as many quality of life and content restrictions, it wouldn't work. One might argue that that enforcing screen time limits, maybe age requirements, and having algorithms prioritize educational (and propaganda) content would result in a better, healthier and less toxic social media environment but many Americans would consider that nanny-state censorship and mind control and such an app wouldn't be as entertaining or popular. The only reason it works in China is a degree of authoritarian control over media that isn't (currently) legal here. I don't doubt that given a more free market TikTok would be forced to regress to the same mean.