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Exactly. The history is filled with injustices directed by everyone at everyone if we go back generations. Are there injustices being perpetrated by the instit

Exactly. The history is filled with injustices directed by everyone at everyone if we go back generations. Are there injustices being perpetrated by the institutions today? Lets call them out. Injustices perpetrated generations ago belong in history books. We cant forget about them but Im not going to be held responsible for them.

JohnMakin 2y ago
> Are there injustices being perpetrated by the institutions today? Lets call them out. Yes! welcome to black lives matter. But, that seems to have been labeled a terrorist group for some reason.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  I haven't heard that but in general tactics and threats could get your labelled terrorist? You may feel you have a just cause but it doesn't mean your goal justifies your actions.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    > You may feel you have a just cause but it doesn't mean your goal justifies your actions. Only ever said by someone that’s part of the establishment.
    - dijit 2y ago
      by definition, if you want to destroy the established methods for change or circumvent them then yes, that is treason (or; terrorism) especially via threat or force. Real change that will jot be classified that way has to happen by engaging with the process for change- though I definitely recognise that its a lot slower and more difficult. So too is it more difficult to save up money instead of robbing a bank, but it doesn't mean you’re morally justified to rob a bank to give to charity vs working and giving a percentage of a paycheck.
- vladgur 2y ago
  Black Lives Matter as an organization has lost any respect from me on October 8, 2023 when they celebrated the October 7th attack killing over a thousand Israelis on their X account [0] Please use a different example [0] https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/blm-chicago-under-fire-for-pro-palestine-post-featuring-paragliding-terrorist/ https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/blm-chicago-under-fire-for-pro...
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    Your claim doesn’t really match your reference, also, I don’t really care (and neither likely does BLM) care about what people like you think. React less to clickbait headlines, think more critically pleaze.
    - vladgur 2y ago
      I saw BLM Chicago instagram post myself, the referenced link is simply for proof. They celebrated an attack on Israel that resulted in deaths and kidnapping of hundreds of innocent music festival goers and kibbutznicks the day after that vicious attack. The fact that you don’t care what I ( or people like me - whatever that means) think is irrelevant to the discussion
395112342 2y ago
Older injustice still has ramifications today. Take redlining for instance. That happened a long time ago. Redlining systematically and intentionally deprived non-white families of home ownership, while helping white families to own homes. But wealth begets wealth, so owning a home lets someone borrow money against it to start a business. When these people die, their children will inherit their wealth. As a result, the (grand)children of a family are still denied opportunities that they would've gotten, if not for redlining. The creator of VeggieTales has a great video on this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUwcs9qJXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUwcs9qJXY P.S. Yes, a family who was able to get a home loan (redlining didn't affect them) might have squandered this wealth gambling, or maybe they didn't pass it onto their children, so some people unaffected by redlining may still end up in a similar place. Similarly, some families that were affected by redlining have still managed to accumulate wealth in spite of redlining. My claim is that the family that squandered their money still got the chance to squander was was given to them, and the injustice is that the redlined family was denied that opportunity.
- 395112342 2y ago
  I can't help but notice (believe me, I'm trying not to notice!) that this comment is getting some downvotes. I'd love it if a downvoter could let me know why they're downvoting, and how I can improve!
  - Omatic810 2y ago
    I can't speak personally to why peeps are downvoting, just wanted to say I appreciate the comment - you explained the position well.
- gottorf 2y ago
  > the injustice is that the redlined family was denied that opportunity Right, but the median debate isn't about whether there was in fact past injustice done via discrimination on racial lines. The median person agrees. The debate is whether present discrimination on racial lines is required to "correct" that past injustice, and whether that would be a form of present justice. There's very little agreement on that.

JohnMakin 2y ago

> Are there injustices being perpetrated by the institutions today? Lets call them out. Yes! welcome to black lives matter. But, that seems to have been labeled a terrorist group for some reason.

ipaddr 2y ago
I haven't heard that but in general tactics and threats could get your labelled terrorist? You may feel you have a just cause but it doesn't mean your goal justifies your actions.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  > You may feel you have a just cause but it doesn't mean your goal justifies your actions. Only ever said by someone that’s part of the establishment.
  - dijit 2y ago
    by definition, if you want to destroy the established methods for change or circumvent them then yes, that is treason (or; terrorism) especially via threat or force. Real change that will jot be classified that way has to happen by engaging with the process for change- though I definitely recognise that its a lot slower and more difficult. So too is it more difficult to save up money instead of robbing a bank, but it doesn't mean you’re morally justified to rob a bank to give to charity vs working and giving a percentage of a paycheck.
vladgur 2y ago
Black Lives Matter as an organization has lost any respect from me on October 8, 2023 when they celebrated the October 7th attack killing over a thousand Israelis on their X account [0] Please use a different example [0] https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/blm-chicago-under-fire-for-pro-palestine-post-featuring-paragliding-terrorist/ https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/blm-chicago-under-fire-for-pro...
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Your claim doesn’t really match your reference, also, I don’t really care (and neither likely does BLM) care about what people like you think. React less to clickbait headlines, think more critically pleaze.
  - vladgur 2y ago
    I saw BLM Chicago instagram post myself, the referenced link is simply for proof. They celebrated an attack on Israel that resulted in deaths and kidnapping of hundreds of innocent music festival goers and kibbutznicks the day after that vicious attack. The fact that you don’t care what I ( or people like me - whatever that means) think is irrelevant to the discussion

395112342 2y ago

Older injustice still has ramifications today. Take redlining for instance. That happened a long time ago. Redlining systematically and intentionally deprived non-white families of home ownership, while helping white families to own homes. But wealth begets wealth, so owning a home lets someone borrow money against it to start a business. When these people die, their children will inherit their wealth. As a result, the (grand)children of a family are still denied opportunities that they would've gotten, if not for redlining. The creator of VeggieTales has a great video on this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUwcs9qJXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUwcs9qJXY P.S. Yes, a family who was able to get a home loan (redlining didn't affect them) might have squandered this wealth gambling, or maybe they didn't pass it onto their children, so some people unaffected by redlining may still end up in a similar place. Similarly, some families that were affected by redlining have still managed to accumulate wealth in spite of redlining. My claim is that the family that squandered their money still got the chance to squander was was given to them, and the injustice is that the redlined family was denied that opportunity.

395112342 2y ago
I can't help but notice (believe me, I'm trying not to notice!) that this comment is getting some downvotes. I'd love it if a downvoter could let me know why they're downvoting, and how I can improve!
- Omatic810 2y ago
  I can't speak personally to why peeps are downvoting, just wanted to say I appreciate the comment - you explained the position well.
gottorf 2y ago
> the injustice is that the redlined family was denied that opportunity Right, but the median debate isn't about whether there was in fact past injustice done via discrimination on racial lines. The median person agrees. The debate is whether present discrimination on racial lines is required to "correct" that past injustice, and whether that would be a form of present justice. There's very little agreement on that.