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This issue is very relevant for me since I have been homeless since May. It's been a bad run of being a target of criminal activity, unemployment and just runni

This issue is very relevant for me since I have been homeless since May. It's been a bad run of being a target of criminal activity, unemployment and just running out of money during my job search. I cope with a mix of volunteering, overpriced housing (think $1200/month for a room in a rural area before I ran out of money for that), catsitting, house-sitting, staying with family and sleeping in my ancient car. Although I'm a citizen I don't qualify for any government support or programs, even though we have employment insurance here which I paid into for years. I'm from Ottawa where the cold is obviously deadly, as it is in Finland. I do feel that we need to take shelter more seriously in public policy compared to warm areas because of that. Last week someone froze to death overnight a few blocks away from where I was crashing on a couch with family. Walking through downtown Ottawa and seeing the huge empty, lit, warm buildings with people freezing to death right outside is striking. Any practically minded person can see the problem is political and philosophical, not practical. I can tell all the posters who think people choose to be homeless that I'm certainly not one of them. The comments about the importance of avoiding a downward spiral are certainly correct. Searching for work is hard enough normally and becomes increasingly difficult without access to things like a kitchen and toilet. What I see in this Finnish policy is the starting assumption that doing nothing is not a good option. After reaching that point there can a rational discussion about what to do with whatever money is being spent - do you pay more people to hand out blankets and conduct surveys or just use it to buy housing units? As a homeless person I would really like to see Canada have a policy like I'm reading in this article instead of what we are doing now. The crappy temporary shelters and bureaucratic spending strategy obviously isn't working. Even just economically, to have a government pay for years of schooling and subsidize advanced degrees then just be ready to let that person die on the street when they are ready to work but can't happen to find something seems like a waste. I'd rather see a functioning "social safety net" as described in this article.

peab 2y ago
The housing situation in Canada is insane and is so obviously due to not building enough housing and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. The fact that it costs 1200$/month for a room in a rural area is incredibly damning. I went to college in Ottawa, and now I live in Austin Texas. It's similar in size, although Austin has been growing more lately. Curiously, they are also both capitols, college towns and they have a river flowing through them. A major difference is that Austin has a new development with 200-400 unites on every block it seems. Cranes are everywhere downtown, and even in random neighborhoods they have huge new developments. Ottawa has no shortage of land, there's a huge amount of available land to develop in either direction, but they evidently aren't building nearly as much. The result? I'm looking at 2 bedroom apartments, and they are 1000$ cheaper than they were 3 years ago when I first moved here. Rent has gone down and continues to go down. I'm seeing studio apartments in the middle of the city renting out for 800$ now!
- Qwertious 2y ago
  >and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. In a functioning economy, more immigration will just result in more housing being built, as long as the immigrants are working. Especially since the cost of housing construction is largely the cost of labor. Immigration is a distraction from the core inability to build more housing.
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    Cost of housing is influenced by much more than labor and raw material.
    - thereisnospork 2y ago
      In our current, over-regulated market: yes absolutely. In a healthy market, cost of low-end housing should approach the cost of labor + raw material (plus necessary overhead for e.g. inspections, plus a reasonable risk-adjusted return on construction). Cost of materials/labor simply slides/scales with additional stories / more difficult terrain. Land/space, while not an infinite resource, is hardly limited on the scale necessary to house people outside of extremely small niches. Views of central park are always going to be expensive, but there are a lot of square miles <45minutes to times square where someone would very profitably build and run (e.g.) an SRO if they were allowed to.
      - Ekaros 2y ago
        Also in healthy market bottom end should be housing build decades ago and already fully paid for. Now it would mean large mid-rises. But still, entirely reasonable standard of living when you are not been brainwashed into needing expensive wasteful single family buildings.
  - mrkstu 2y ago
    "In a functioning economy" is doing a lot of work here. Here in reality the parent comment is 100% correct.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
With all due respect, why volunteer? I notice this with a lot of homeless people I chat with (there's a lot here in Boulder) - many of them volunteer their time at various charities while being homeless. Wouldn't it be better devoting 100% of your spare time to getting back on your feet, and then volunteer, or donate?
- thfuran 2y ago
  Why do most people have only one job? Wouldn't it be better to spend evenings at a second job and then have leisure when you retire?
  - IncreasePosts 2y ago
    I guess you're trying to make some point, but I don't really see it.
    - radlad 2y ago
      I think the point is that one can only devote a finite amount of time and energy searching for a job each day before they hit diminishing returns, due to both mental fatigue and physical limitations. Though as another commenter pointed out, volunteer work is a common resume-building and networking tactic.
    - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
      The poster above you is making a comparison between working a job and finding a job. Working a job: you spend 8-12 hours at the job and then spend your leisure time doing other things, like studying or meeting friends or watching tv. Finding a job: you spend 8-12 hours trying to find a job, and then you spend your leisure time doing other things, like volunteering. The question you posed earlier was, why wouldn't someone just spend all available time (let's say 16 hours per day) trying to find a job, instead of doing anything else, like volunteering. The poster above you was responding to that, trying to demonstrate how the same suggestion would be ridiculous in the context of working a job, and it should be equally ridiculous in the context of finding a job.
justlikereddit 2y ago
While I'm not homeless, the existence of USB(powerbank) heated clothes have been a very comfy discovery of mine recently. A bit fiddly at times sure but having hours of comfy warmth available at the press of a button is worth it. I've wondered if this is something adopted by the homeless already? and if not, look into it. You still need proper insulating layers on top of the heating ones, and many of the cheapest chinese varieties might have undersized heat pads that might not use the quick charge ability and merely provide warmth as opposed to heat. But I'm welcoming every extra watt of heat whenever cold.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  Where I went to college there was a local homeless guy who was friendly and well known enough that the coffee shops wouldn't bother him if he came in and plugged in his electric blanket to warm up.
mmooss 2y ago
Stay warm! And thank you for stepping forward to share your story and perspective. HN needs much more of it.
ricksunny 2y ago
I look after a citizen science-driven phytochemistry research activity and would be interested to understand more about your background. My email is in my HN user page.
_zjuf 2y ago
I'm confused about how you haven't been able to find a job. I'm a student in Ontario and have received multiple job offers. They're not great jobs (fast food, warehouse work, etc.), but it's better than having no job at all. Everyone I know has also been able to get offers for low skill jobs as well. How have you not been able to get even a low-skill minimum wage job despite searching since May? I'm not trying to insult you or anything, just trying to understand your situation.
- bjourne 2y ago
  Here are some links explaining why it is difficult: https://www.bcchvt.org/community-updates/2023/3/2/why-cant-homeless-people-just-get-a-job https://www.bcchvt.org/community-updates/2023/3/2/why-cant-h... https://www.shp.org.uk/homelessness-explained/why-is-it-hard-for-someone-who-is-homeless-to-get-a-job/ https://www.shp.org.uk/homelessness-explained/why-is-it-hard... https://upperroommission.ca/why-dont-homeless-people-just-get-a-job/ https://upperroommission.ca/why-dont-homeless-people-just-ge... Hope that helps!
jillesvangurp 2y ago
I recently visited Finland (I lived there for 3 years at some point). If you go to Helsinki, there's a shiny new library in the downtown area that is warm, cozy, modern, and has plenty of space for people to work, study, work on art projects, etc. They have books, 3d printers, studios, co-working options, etc. Anyone is welcome there. Including homeless people, unemployed people. Anyone. You don't see people camping out there (they have other options so they'd be kicked out) but they do provide an environment that welcomes anyone that wants to to come and learn and develop themselves and can behave themselves. It's a good example of Finnish pragmatism. It might be a bit socialist/idealistic. But it also is a good idea that might actually work. If you find yourself in Helsinki, it's called Oodi and is right next to the train station. Beautiful building. Worth visiting for the architecture alone. My point here, the Finnish approach is not fighting symptoms but fighting the root causes: mental health, poverty, education, etc. Those things go hand in hand. If you are out of a job, you get poor. If you are not educated, you can't find a job. If you are poor you might develop mental health issues, become homeless, and become even harder to employ, etc. Breaking that cycle is the key. Get people healthy, teach them stuff, house them. It's a mix of ideology, compassion and pragmatism that drives Finland to do these things. You don't have to buy into the ideology. But most people are not cold sociopaths and are capable of having empathy. Pragmatism is what makes the difference here. Especially when ideology gets in the way. Which I would say is the main challenge in many harsh, capitalist doctrine dominated societies that are leaving people homless. There's plenty of empathy and charity there but it's mostly limited to giving people access to shelters and soup. People donate but also oppose real solutions. So, things get worse. Oodi is a pragmatic solution. So is the Finnish way of addressing problems with people being homeless. And realizing that education is part of the problem.
Arn_Thor 2y ago
This point of yours resonates with me (paraphrased): if we assume that inaction is not an option, the conversation can progress to solutions.
stefantalpalaru 2y ago
[dead]

peab 2y ago

The housing situation in Canada is insane and is so obviously due to not building enough housing and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. The fact that it costs 1200$/month for a room in a rural area is incredibly damning. I went to college in Ottawa, and now I live in Austin Texas. It's similar in size, although Austin has been growing more lately. Curiously, they are also both capitols, college towns and they have a river flowing through them. A major difference is that Austin has a new development with 200-400 unites on every block it seems. Cranes are everywhere downtown, and even in random neighborhoods they have huge new developments. Ottawa has no shortage of land, there's a huge amount of available land to develop in either direction, but they evidently aren't building nearly as much. The result? I'm looking at 2 bedroom apartments, and they are 1000$ cheaper than they were 3 years ago when I first moved here. Rent has gone down and continues to go down. I'm seeing studio apartments in the middle of the city renting out for 800$ now!

Qwertious 2y ago
>and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. In a functioning economy, more immigration will just result in more housing being built, as long as the immigrants are working. Especially since the cost of housing construction is largely the cost of labor. Immigration is a distraction from the core inability to build more housing.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  Cost of housing is influenced by much more than labor and raw material.
  - thereisnospork 2y ago
    In our current, over-regulated market: yes absolutely. In a healthy market, cost of low-end housing should approach the cost of labor + raw material (plus necessary overhead for e.g. inspections, plus a reasonable risk-adjusted return on construction). Cost of materials/labor simply slides/scales with additional stories / more difficult terrain. Land/space, while not an infinite resource, is hardly limited on the scale necessary to house people outside of extremely small niches. Views of central park are always going to be expensive, but there are a lot of square miles <45minutes to times square where someone would very profitably build and run (e.g.) an SRO if they were allowed to.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      Also in healthy market bottom end should be housing build decades ago and already fully paid for. Now it would mean large mid-rises. But still, entirely reasonable standard of living when you are not been brainwashed into needing expensive wasteful single family buildings.
- mrkstu 2y ago
  "In a functioning economy" is doing a lot of work here. Here in reality the parent comment is 100% correct.

IncreasePosts 2y ago

With all due respect, why volunteer? I notice this with a lot of homeless people I chat with (there's a lot here in Boulder) - many of them volunteer their time at various charities while being homeless. Wouldn't it be better devoting 100% of your spare time to getting back on your feet, and then volunteer, or donate?

thfuran 2y ago
Why do most people have only one job? Wouldn't it be better to spend evenings at a second job and then have leisure when you retire?
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  I guess you're trying to make some point, but I don't really see it.
  - radlad 2y ago
    I think the point is that one can only devote a finite amount of time and energy searching for a job each day before they hit diminishing returns, due to both mental fatigue and physical limitations. Though as another commenter pointed out, volunteer work is a common resume-building and networking tactic.
  - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
    The poster above you is making a comparison between working a job and finding a job. Working a job: you spend 8-12 hours at the job and then spend your leisure time doing other things, like studying or meeting friends or watching tv. Finding a job: you spend 8-12 hours trying to find a job, and then you spend your leisure time doing other things, like volunteering. The question you posed earlier was, why wouldn't someone just spend all available time (let's say 16 hours per day) trying to find a job, instead of doing anything else, like volunteering. The poster above you was responding to that, trying to demonstrate how the same suggestion would be ridiculous in the context of working a job, and it should be equally ridiculous in the context of finding a job.

justlikereddit 2y ago

While I'm not homeless, the existence of USB(powerbank) heated clothes have been a very comfy discovery of mine recently. A bit fiddly at times sure but having hours of comfy warmth available at the press of a button is worth it. I've wondered if this is something adopted by the homeless already? and if not, look into it. You still need proper insulating layers on top of the heating ones, and many of the cheapest chinese varieties might have undersized heat pads that might not use the quick charge ability and merely provide warmth as opposed to heat. But I'm welcoming every extra watt of heat whenever cold.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dghlsakjg 2y ago
Where I went to college there was a local homeless guy who was friendly and well known enough that the coffee shops wouldn't bother him if he came in and plugged in his electric blanket to warm up.

mmooss 2y ago

Stay warm! And thank you for stepping forward to share your story and perspective. HN needs much more of it.

ricksunny 2y ago

I look after a citizen science-driven phytochemistry research activity and would be interested to understand more about your background. My email is in my HN user page.

_zjuf 2y ago

I'm confused about how you haven't been able to find a job. I'm a student in Ontario and have received multiple job offers. They're not great jobs (fast food, warehouse work, etc.), but it's better than having no job at all. Everyone I know has also been able to get offers for low skill jobs as well. How have you not been able to get even a low-skill minimum wage job despite searching since May? I'm not trying to insult you or anything, just trying to understand your situation.

bjourne 2y ago
Here are some links explaining why it is difficult: https://www.bcchvt.org/community-updates/2023/3/2/why-cant-homeless-people-just-get-a-job https://www.bcchvt.org/community-updates/2023/3/2/why-cant-h... https://www.shp.org.uk/homelessness-explained/why-is-it-hard-for-someone-who-is-homeless-to-get-a-job/ https://www.shp.org.uk/homelessness-explained/why-is-it-hard... https://upperroommission.ca/why-dont-homeless-people-just-get-a-job/ https://upperroommission.ca/why-dont-homeless-people-just-ge... Hope that helps!

jillesvangurp 2y ago

I recently visited Finland (I lived there for 3 years at some point). If you go to Helsinki, there's a shiny new library in the downtown area that is warm, cozy, modern, and has plenty of space for people to work, study, work on art projects, etc. They have books, 3d printers, studios, co-working options, etc. Anyone is welcome there. Including homeless people, unemployed people. Anyone. You don't see people camping out there (they have other options so they'd be kicked out) but they do provide an environment that welcomes anyone that wants to to come and learn and develop themselves and can behave themselves. It's a good example of Finnish pragmatism. It might be a bit socialist/idealistic. But it also is a good idea that might actually work. If you find yourself in Helsinki, it's called Oodi and is right next to the train station. Beautiful building. Worth visiting for the architecture alone. My point here, the Finnish approach is not fighting symptoms but fighting the root causes: mental health, poverty, education, etc. Those things go hand in hand. If you are out of a job, you get poor. If you are not educated, you can't find a job. If you are poor you might develop mental health issues, become homeless, and become even harder to employ, etc. Breaking that cycle is the key. Get people healthy, teach them stuff, house them. It's a mix of ideology, compassion and pragmatism that drives Finland to do these things. You don't have to buy into the ideology. But most people are not cold sociopaths and are capable of having empathy. Pragmatism is what makes the difference here. Especially when ideology gets in the way. Which I would say is the main challenge in many harsh, capitalist doctrine dominated societies that are leaving people homless. There's plenty of empathy and charity there but it's mostly limited to giving people access to shelters and soup. People donate but also oppose real solutions. So, things get worse. Oodi is a pragmatic solution. So is the Finnish way of addressing problems with people being homeless. And realizing that education is part of the problem.

Arn_Thor 2y ago

This point of yours resonates with me (paraphrased): if we assume that inaction is not an option, the conversation can progress to solutions.

stefantalpalaru 2y ago

[dead]