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We still have to solve aviation and maritime don’t we? I can see why you’d want a single fuel source for all vehicles. But I know nothing about fuel productio

We still have to solve aviation and maritime don’t we? I can see why you’d want a single fuel source for all vehicles. But I know nothing about fuel production.

vrighter 2y ago
if you want to fuel an airliner with hydrogen, it might be possible, but you'd have to kick most passengers off to make place for the hydrogen
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> We still have to solve aviation and maritime don’t we? Hydrogen for aviation is turbocharged stupidity. Particularly when we're making solid progress on synthetic (and biomass) aviation fuels [1]. (Which wouldn't require a global aircraft and airport infrastructure overhaul.) [1] https://www.catf.us/resource/decarbonizing-aviation-challenges-and-opportunities-for-emerging-fuels/ https://www.catf.us/resource/decarbonizing-aviation-challeng...
calmbonsai 2y ago
Sadly, aviation is looking like only hydrocarbon combustion will work for anything aside from very short-haul flights. No battery breakthrough will get around the fact that medium and long-haul planes get the bulk of their range from the fact that they get substantially lighter as they burn fuel. Short-haul routes and trainers can be all electric ( https://byeaerospace.com/ https://byeaerospace.com/ ). We'll probably end up with something like "green" hydrocarbon synthesis--at substantial cost increases. The vast bulk of aviation will never be de-carbonized in any foreseeable future short of something akin to "Mr. Fusion" from Back to the Future. There's good hope for ammonia in maritime. Man in Germany has had working ammonia fueled gas turbines on a variety of vessels and routes for years with forthcoming retro-fits available this year. https://www.man-es.com/discover/two-stroke-ammonia-engine https://www.man-es.com/discover/two-stroke-ammonia-engine Ammonia won't work well in aviation due, primarily, to its very short/slow combustion wave-fronts and low combustion temperatures, but also due to its lack of specific energy density with storage infrastructure that's light enough to be airworthy. It's "do-able", but a very distant "2nd fiddle" to even lite/green Jet-A (kerosene) synthesis.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  It is possible to take some of the carbon out of the jet fuel equation, but there are worse forms of pollution than carbon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_fuel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_fuel
  - calmbonsai 2y ago
    Thanks for that link! I've been following aviation fuels for some time, but had no idea this had ever been tried.

We still have to solve aviation and maritime don’t we? I can see why you’d want a single fuel source for all vehicles. But I know nothing about fuel production.

vrighter 2y ago

if you want to fuel an airliner with hydrogen, it might be possible, but you'd have to kick most passengers off to make place for the hydrogen

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> We still have to solve aviation and maritime don’t we? Hydrogen for aviation is turbocharged stupidity. Particularly when we're making solid progress on synthetic (and biomass) aviation fuels [1]. (Which wouldn't require a global aircraft and airport infrastructure overhaul.) [1] https://www.catf.us/resource/decarbonizing-aviation-challenges-and-opportunities-for-emerging-fuels/ https://www.catf.us/resource/decarbonizing-aviation-challeng...

calmbonsai 2y ago

Sadly, aviation is looking like only hydrocarbon combustion will work for anything aside from very short-haul flights. No battery breakthrough will get around the fact that medium and long-haul planes get the bulk of their range from the fact that they get substantially lighter as they burn fuel. Short-haul routes and trainers can be all electric ( https://byeaerospace.com/ https://byeaerospace.com/ ). We'll probably end up with something like "green" hydrocarbon synthesis--at substantial cost increases. The vast bulk of aviation will never be de-carbonized in any foreseeable future short of something akin to "Mr. Fusion" from Back to the Future. There's good hope for ammonia in maritime. Man in Germany has had working ammonia fueled gas turbines on a variety of vessels and routes for years with forthcoming retro-fits available this year. https://www.man-es.com/discover/two-stroke-ammonia-engine https://www.man-es.com/discover/two-stroke-ammonia-engine Ammonia won't work well in aviation due, primarily, to its very short/slow combustion wave-fronts and low combustion temperatures, but also due to its lack of specific energy density with storage infrastructure that's light enough to be airworthy. It's "do-able", but a very distant "2nd fiddle" to even lite/green Jet-A (kerosene) synthesis.

sandworm101 2y ago
It is possible to take some of the carbon out of the jet fuel equation, but there are worse forms of pollution than carbon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_fuel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_fuel
- calmbonsai 2y ago
  Thanks for that link! I've been following aviation fuels for some time, but had no idea this had ever been tried.