9 ms·

Microsoft should be terrified of SteamOS

108 points by dingi 2y ago

Havoc 2y ago
Absolutely. I need browser, VLC, IDE and some games. ...only one of those was a linux showstopper.
sho_hn 2y ago
Anecdotally, the number of people I know who bought a Steam Deck and ended up using it as a docked desktop replacement is now in the upper single digits. All of them are in IT or IT-adjacent, but were not desktop Linux users before, either at work or at home.
- ttoinou 2y ago
  Knowing 9 person doing that would be a lot, right ? Or was it double digits before ?
- internet101010 2y ago
  For me it is about having the option to sit at my desk or on the couch with a controller. Saves are synced, there is no an annual subscription, and I don't have a full PC next to my TV. It just sits on a shelf next to the Switch that hasn't been touched in years.
bpoyner 2y ago
I bought my wife a Steam Deck and she loves it, her biggest complaint is that it's a bit too big for women's hands. She isn't highly technical but I haven't had to provide much in the way of assistance, it largely just works.
- Kuraj 2y ago
  The Steam Deck is HUGE. I thought my Nintendo Switch was big until I got it, but it appears so tiny now in comparison.
  - selykg 2y ago
    I don’t mind the size but it does make it prohibitively more difficult to travel with compared to the Switch (slightly) but especially so compared to old handhelds like the DS and Vita. I generally keep my Steam Deck at home and play from the couch. It’s awesome to be able to pick it up, play a game for 15 minutes, hit the power button to suspend. Come back later and pickup where I left off. The Switch does this as well but the Steam Deck supports games more my genre and style so it gets more use.
- ropejumper 2y ago
  It's a bit big for my hands as well, but the huge touch screen is amazing for programs like sunvox so I don't even mind. I think it's hard to genuinely appreciate how big the thing is until you hold it. Today I realized it's exactly the same size as my keyboard. And almost as wide as a 12-inch macbook.
- herpdyderp 2y ago
  The size opinion varies dramatically by person, apparently, because everyone I’ve personally talked to (including women) prefers the Steam Deck’s larger size over the Switch. (The Switch is so tiny!)
pixelpoet 2y ago
Microsoft don't give a rat's ass about operating systems since ages, and their policy on no more Windows 10 updates this year will finally push me to Linux (probs ElementaryOS) after a lifetime on DOS/Windows. Visual Studio is also full of AI/Copilot junk now, and I've basically just had enough of their "not now" / "ask me again later please, I am a sucker" options when I really want "be ashamed for asking and never ask me again", all the user-hostile shit they pull... enough is enough.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  Microsoft's cash cows are increasingly Office 365 and of course Azure. Everything that can serve as an Office 365 client OS is surely fine. A shrinking Windows operation may just save them money in the long run.
- andyjohnson0 2y ago
  > Microsoft don't give a rat's ass about operating systems since ages I think Microsoft sees Azure as its future, not Windows, and would be generally happy for people to use a thin cloud client rather than an expensive-to-support general-purpose OS. But we are where we are, thankfully. How long it will stay that way, idk. As for VS - yes its annoying but you can turn all that stuff off.
- daemin 2y ago
  You can uninstall CoPilot from Visual Studio - it's a separate entry in the Visual Studio Installer - and you need to set an option in Visual Studio to hide the buttons. But yes, I am constantly frustrated with the constant pushing in your face of CoPilot features in all Microsoft products - Office and Teams especially so.
foolswisdom 2y ago
It doesn't seem like this challenges anything but the market for gaming devices (not general purpose PCs). Is that correct? And if so, is the title ("terrified") a little overblown?
- Kuraj 2y ago
  It appears so. Steam OS, at least in the form that exists on my Deck, is not suitable for general purpose. True, it has a desktop environment, but it's "jailed" - of course with an option to jail break it, but anything you do outside of the user space is subject to being wiped the next time you get an OTA update. Then again, OTA updates are necessarily only a thing on the Deck and I suppose this wouldn't be a problem on the Steam OS distribution available for installing on other hardware.
  - rollcat 2y ago
    > [...] anything you do outside of the user space is subject to being wiped the next time you get an OTA update. You mean outside of /home? This is actually excellent. Rock solid base OS that can be A/B booted, deliver extra apps via Flatpak/AppImage - this is close to what macOS achieved, minus all the crap Apple has been pulling recently. I'm tempted.
    - NekkoDroid 2y ago
      > You mean outside of /home? More precisely it would be /home and /var. Persistant changes can in theory also be done with systemd-sysext, but it isn't exactly the most user friendly thing currenty. https://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2022/09/13/adding-software-to-the-steam-deck-with-systemd-sysext/ https://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2022/09/13/adding-software-to...
  - LinuxBender 2y ago
    Jailed might be OK for the general audience vs technical people but does it come with a package manager that lets you install things such as OpenSSH, assorted open source VPN daemons, email clients, etc... or do such things have to be shimmed in or run from /home or break OS updates? Or do such things have to be purchased or installed through an app store like on cell phones? If so it may still be usable. I rebooted a telco mainframe switch using Telnet from a Nokia 9000 back in the day whilst on call.
r1chardnl 2y ago
I tried to switch to Linux a few times over a couple of years but had a hard time switching from Windows to Linux until I found a replacement for Visual Studio (non-VSCode), which I replaced with VSCode on Linux. Aside from a few games that wouldn't work for any reason (Kernel level anticheat, WINE bugs, manually setting export env variables) it's been great. Being a tinkerer/developer I wonder whether this made it harder or easier to switch, you have more knowledge of how to fix things but the same amount of time as everyone else and if you don't depend on specific programs / workflow like using a browser you may be able make the jump to Linux easier.
- abhinavk 2y ago
  It's a very interesting observation. IMO people who just use want to use their computer for browser and email stuff are the easiest to migrate to Linux.
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    People who just use want to use their computer for browser and email stuff don't need a pc, they need a smartphone dock for a display and keyboard.
- dingi 2y ago
  Try Jetbrains Rider. I use it almost daily for work. Miles ahead compared to VSCode. There is no free version though.
  - Kuraj 2y ago
    If you're ok with running unstable, you can run and use early access builds for free, even commercially
    - eklavya 2y ago
      Last I checked it wasn't true at least for Ultimate, is Rider treated differently?
pjc50 2y ago
Maybe, but we're not quite there yet - Valve still restricting the OS to their hardware. Come back when people who build their own gamer PCs start choosing SteamOS en masse. That's then the start point of a movement away from Windows. I agree that the 10/11 migration has been an infuriating experience for a lot of users. A Microsoft unforced error, seemingly in the name of insisting on forcing TPM on people.
- andreime 2y ago
  That's incorrect, where did you pick it up? You can install SteamOS on any machine, but AMD GPU are somewhat required if you're not up to major tinkering. Valve does not officially support NVIDIA gpus atm; they are working on it. Here's a video from Linus Tech Tips on how to do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 .
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Via original article: https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/7/24338405/valve-steamos-beta-other-handhelds-beyond-steam-deck https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/7/24338405/valve-steamos-bet... (i.e. in the future tense)
    - abhinavk 2y ago
      Not providing official support != Restricting.
      - sho_hn 2y ago
        Valve does still provide official support for Steam, even if you run it on a different set of HW or distribution. Not providing official support for random hardware seems reasonable. Neither do Microsoft nor Apple.
  - sho_hn 2y ago
    Easier access to SteamOS images for generic HW also appears to be in the works: > Ahead of Legion Go S shipping, we will be shipping a beta of SteamOS which should improve the experience on other handhelds, and users can download and test this themselves. And of course we'll continue adding support and improving the experience with future releases. Source: https://store.steampowered.com/news/collection/steam/?emclan=103582791457287600&emgid=529834914570306831 https://store.steampowered.com/news/collection/steam/?emclan...
madeofpalk 2y ago
Does Microsoft make money from consumer gaming OS sales? Is there an onroad from that market to others -does there enterprise sales rely on gamers getting jobs and demanding microsoft? I think the author vastly overestimates how much of a market this actually is.
- Sayrus 2y ago
  You don't always make money because you sell to a specific customer. Sometimes it's about support and network effect. Devices (Scanners, Printers, ...) are compatible with Windows and sometimes only Windows because that's what people use, NVIDIA drivers used to be Windows only because that's where customers were. Does Microsoft make money from these sales? No. Do they make money from having an ecosystem that everyone is supporting? Most definitely.
  - rabf 2y ago
    Nvidia has had support for linux since 1999!
- SmallDeadGuy 2y ago
  I think they make a bunch of money having Windows being the default installed OS on prebuilt PCs and laptops. Gaming PCs and laptops are a pretty large market included in that. There's a chance vendors/builders might start to sell cheaper options which don't include Windows installed, savings for both them and the customers. Will have to see if that actually happens though, even as a power user myself there are still a bunch of pain points with SteamOS/steam deck that are harder to deal with than similar issues in Windows.
- brokencode 2y ago
  They make money from lots of random stuff that they advertise in Windows. The Edge browser for instance, which pushes Bing. Also, office applications like Word, OneNote, and OneDrive. They’ve got an app store as well, which is not much used, though probably does bring them some money. I think they show ads by default in the start menu. Pretty sure it even comes with certain third party applications, like Netflix, which they are no doubt paid for.
bluetrolliage 2y ago
I’m curious how much msft makes in windows from gamers vs actual game sales. They seem to be hedging their bets hard on cloud gaming and actual game sales for Xbox.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  I assume selling Windows to consumers at the retail price is a loss maker to Microsoft and they make up for it via the ads and product monetization or subsidized from enterprise subscriptions. Looking at the data, in 1995 Microsoft charge consumers $210 for a retail copy of Windows 95. That's $434 in today's money adjusted for inflation. Windows XP Home retailed for $200 at launch, which is $356 in today's money. Meanwhile Windows 11 Home today retails for significantly cheaper at $140 for a product that's hugely more complex than Win 95 or Win XP were, while requiring way more staff and dev effort to build and support. The finances just don't work out for me to see how the sale of a Windows 11 copy alone for $140 could make a profit at price given the 10 year lifecycle dev and support of a major Windows version. I would guess a copy of Windows today would have to be sold for probably $500+ in order to be remotely profitable for Microsoft without ads or promotions, which no consumer would ever pay so I assume Microsoft is subsidizing it with ads/data collection or even taking a loss just to keep the retail price low to avoid loosing market share to Linux.
  - 573v14n7 2y ago
    That would be true if the sales volumes remained static, but somehow you seem to have missed the fact that there are somewhat more Windows licensees today than there were in 1995. Also, you're discounting the enormous differences between Windows 95 and its predecessor, versus the relatively small differences between Windows 11 and its direct predecessor. A difference so small that Microsoft initially intended to market Windows 11 as a new version of Windows 10. Other than those two massive, almost insurmountably significant errors, your reasoning was sound.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      >Also, you're discounting the enormous differences between Windows 95 and its predecessor, versus the relatively small differences between Windows 11 and its direct predecessor. You're omitting the fact that earlier versions of Windows were more or less a one and done deal and not required massive continued development and updates modern Windows requires. Plus the much more numerous workforce Microsoft has on the payroll now versus back in those days on the Windows teams. Your argument is factless and only based on the subjective opinion of "Windows 11 doesn't seem to different to me compared to Windows 10, so it can't cost too much to develop" which is silly and childish and shows your lack of understanding here.
poulpy123 2y ago
It's funny because the real danger for Microsoft is of course Apple (and maybe some chinese company but I'm not familiar enough).
- Daneel_ 2y ago
  How so? Because younger kids are using more macs and will want to take that into the workplace? Microsoft has the enterprise virtually locked up still. I don’t see most companies offering macbooks as an option. Linux though? My former university uses it as their desktop OS on all machines. I really do think Linux is the threat, not apple.
  - poulpy123 2y ago
    Because Apple has the money, the knowledge, control all the chain from the hardware to the software, and is a trendy company.
  - reginald78 2y ago
    I'd say they're more a threat because of iOS than macs. This thread is replete with everyone ignoring that your average laptop/desktop user who wasn't much of a gamer probably abandoned laptop/desktops for a mobile phone only life years ago. PC Gamers may well be the largest remaining consumer segment on Windows but that segment pales in comparison to the corporate space where Windows is going to remain strong for the foreseeable future.
- ozornin 2y ago
  I don't believe Apple is ever going to compete with MS in government sector nor in classic corporate
  - philistine 2y ago
    Sure, but if Microsoft is relegated to corporate, they'll make money hand over fist but Windows will lose all relevance for future growth. Like IBM.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
If Valve went for the corporate market, then, maybe, yes, but I think MSFT has always made most of its OS money on corporate stuff (home users often use Windows, because that's what they work with). Gaming isn't really a thing, with corporate use. I use a Mac. Macs are some of the worst gaming platforms on Earth. If I'm lucky enough to get an AAA game, it's seven years behind its PC version, and a huge bug farm. SteamOS might actually get me to consider a console, but gaming hasn't ever really been a priority for me (obv.).
- iterance 2y ago
  You're right in the short term, but in the long term (decade+), the home and corporate markets are symbiotic. People buy for the office the tools they expect employees to be comfortable and familiar with. It's not the only factor in consideration, but it's a significant one. Any meaningful erosion in employees' understanding of how to use Windows, in the long term (definitely not the short term), poses a threat. Microsoft has a very long time to respond, tho, and that assumes Valve even prioritizes a general use OS. This problem is not urgent, if it is real at all.
herpdyderp 2y ago
> It’s possible… the Steam Deck is now the most popular gaming PC in the world. This is completely absurd. If you look at Steam’s own hardware survey Windows still has 96% user share. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
- cube2222 2y ago
  You literally skipped the part of the sentence making it not absurd - "in terms of single-device volume".
  - paxys 2y ago
    And you skipped the "we don't actually know because Valve hasn't released any numbers" part. Basically they pulled the claim out of their ass.
    - hbn 2y ago
      Is there any possible second contender even? In terms of single-device gaming PCs it seems like it's cornered the market. Everything else is random gaming PCs made for moms to buy for their 9-year-olds which no one could name, people making their own PCs from parts, unnamed prebuilts (again, made from off-the-shelf parts), and the Steam Deck's competition which are obviously playing catchup. Steam Deck is probably the closest that market has to an "iPhone."
      - paxys 2y ago
        The thing is every PC is a "gaming PC". The only distinction is how powerful you make it. And PC manufacturers generally sell a line of laptops/desktops branded for gaming. I found random numbers from 2021, where Lenovo said that they sell over a million of their Legion gaming laptops every year (https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-legion-goes-all-out-new-futuristic-gaming-machines/ https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-legi...). Has Steam Deck sold more than a few million since it launched in 2022? Unlikely.
paxys 2y ago
I read all the same articles word for word in 2013 when SteamOS first launched. Yes more games are playable on Linux today because of Proton, but everything else is still a mess. You still can't stream video >720p from any major streaming service, for example. I don't see people rushing to put SteamOS on their PCs or entertainment centers while these basic gaps still exist.
- baobun 2y ago
  > You still can't stream video >720p from any major streaming service, for example Say what? I'm playing 1080p fine. Sounds like you could be bit by drm ("that's not a bug, it's a feature"). If so the issue lies with your streaming service - some withhold bitrates unless they detect a "trusted" browser and OS (ie you'd have to fake Edge on Windows User-Agent at least). https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1700815 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1700815
  - npteljes 2y ago
    This sentiment misses the point. It's not that Linux is not capable - it's plenty capable, and has been for decades now. It's that support for it is lacking. The lack of support makes Linux look bad, because, from the perspective of the end user, it doesn't matter who actually is responsible for the failure of something. If negative experience comes after installing X, then surely X is to blame, right? Wrong, as we both know, but this is the experience that needs to be managed, in order to make Linux successful. Entities who managed this experience made commercially successful Linuxes - Red Hat, Canonical, Google, and Steam as well.
- redserk 2y ago
  I think there's a few things to consider though: 1. Not all gamers use the features that may be annoying to use on Linux. Anecdotally, only a handful of friends use streaming and most of the time it's to play party games. 2. I think you're understating the impact of the growth of game playability now versus 2013. While the Wine developers deserve unbound praise for their impressive work, I would not say Wine in 2013 was truly viable for gaming. There were wikis with compatibility information but it was a mixed bag. Sometimes newer versions would break what was already working and it's unreasonable to expect volunteers to test every game on every version of Wine. Sometimes you had to copy DLLs from a Windows box and do all sorts of kludges to get things working. 3. Steam puts compatibilty information right next to the game before you buy. It sounds like you can request a refund if it won't run. To me, this gives a lot more confidence in Valve's vision as they're putting their money where their mouth is. 4. Most importantly, the Steam Deck now exists as something you can hold in your hands to see the viability of certain games on SteamOS. Many gamers have heard of the Steam Deck or even know someone who owns one. In 2013 there could be all sorts of hardware compatibility reasons why SteamOS wouldn't work or wouldn't be viable. It was too easy to dismiss before you'd even start touching a game. Now? The Steam Deck standardized the hardware side of the equation so the feasibility conversation starts with game compatibility.
n144q 2y ago
No, the premise is wrong. > That could threaten Microsoft's hold on PC gaming Sure. But so what. PC gaming is a very small market that Microsoft don't actually care much about. Well, they have a Windows store that sells games, a Windows xbox app and PC game pass, and they put a bit of effort here and there, but not really. Microsoft doesn't really care about your Windows license key either. They could have made pirating much harder, but the fact that you can find Windows activator on their own GitHub says that Microsoft thinks it's a waste of time to do anything about it. (In fact, Windows license is free on handheld gaming devices. So Microsoft doesn't earn any money anyway. https://windowsreport.com/windows-10-9-remains-free-oems-anniversary-update/ https://windowsreport.com/windows-10-9-remains-free-oems-ann...) Most of Windows installations come from OEM and enterprises. Everything else is a marginal error. They also can't sell (much) more licenses just as they want, because pretty much it's tied to PC sales that's more about whether people are buying devices. Which is why they are stuffing ads everywhere in Windows. It sucks for users, but is a good (short sighted) business strategy -- you can only earn so much money from license, but you can earn infinite money from ads. Seems hard for people to understand this.
- mariusor 2y ago
  > PC gaming is a very small market... and PC game pass I think you're very much wrong. The game pass market is said to have ~30 million users. Having them be able to play on PC is probably quite important as not everyone can afford an extra Xbox if they already have a computer.
  - n144q 2y ago
    Your argument is not very convincing unless you can show numbers of people who have an Game Pass Ultimate subscription and use it for PC gaming. > not everyone can afford an extra Xbox if they already have a computer Gaming PCs are much, much more expensive than consoles at same performance. Most people have consoles and no gaming PC. In markets where that's not the case (e.g. China), game pass and Xbox in general happen to be also less relevant -- if they get a console, they'll get a PS5.
    - 2y ago
jimnotgym 2y ago
Until SteamOS gets MS office and comprehensive Active Directory integration, I think it will have almost zero penetratation into the corporate PC market
lordfrito 2y ago
PC gaming is one of the few places left that Windows has any relevance, without that there very few reasons to continue running Windows. Sales volumes for general purpose PCs (used by people other than gaming and developers) have been declining for years. If you don't need Windows to game... and you don't need Windows to run office anymore (office 365).. then the only real reason to run windows would be to run VisualStudio and other legacy dev tools? Linux is looking more and more attractive to the power user base. I'm a power user that games... so Windows it is. For now. The moment I don't need Windows to game, and Wine can run all my legacy apps, then I'm jumping ship to Linux. Consumers have moved on and all that's left in terms of volume are businesses that need a stock general purpose desktop -- legacy lives on for a while but not forever. This might be the beginning of the end for Windows -- I'm speaking in terms of product lifecycle.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  I think this is a big leap. Organisations worldwide use Windows. Office 365 is not a good replacement for Office on-device, and I bet it will never be. I'm a big fan of this happening, but I don't think this is the nail in the coffin. It definitely is a nail, and I use Steam on Linux happily, but not the nail.
  - lordfrito 2y ago
    Agreed... still a pretty big nail. A turning point. The loss of gaming definitely marks the beginning of the end of Windows as a consumer OS. Windows future might be relegated to a platform to run Microsoft business apps and dev tools. Considering Windows is the most anti-consumer mainstream OS out there -- if Windows becomes a "business OS" then I wonder what happens to all the telemetry and other anti-consumer stuff they've added over the years? Seems like a fork in the road for Windows product planning.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      I would say - it's still not a loss. Not every game is available on Linux, at all, or if it is it's not very easy for a regular person, or if it is there might still be a better experience on Windows. It's amazing progress, but it's a long way off what you're describing.
cube2222 2y ago
Very much agreed with SteamOS possibly occupying a lot of gaming PC market share in the not-too-distant future (though not sure if Microsoft cares/should care too much about that). However, I expect that this process will still take a while. Proton seems to be working well esp. for single-player games (haven't tried it yet though), but it seems like - DLSS-like features still have some way to go, - and a lot of multiplayer games require kernel-level anti-cheat which is often developed for windows only. Those two are I believe the only remaining blockers for me. But that's a chicken-and-egg problem, same as native (non-proton) support for games on Linux. Once SteamOS is big enough, I expect those to quickly follow.
jerojero 2y ago
I really want to install steamOS on my gaming laptop, but it has an NVIDIA card. So, I'll be waiting for a while until that kind of support happens. It's not a big issue but I'm really sick of windows. Even though my laptop is much more powerful I find myself constantly using the steam deck because the thought of booting up windows, closing up all the apps that open, trying to get it to connect to the tv... It's a lot. For work and general use I have a MacBook, happy with it for that purpose.
eklavya 2y ago
I started using Windows fully after like 15 years. I really like Windows 11 after running the debloater. WSL2 seems to work pretty seamlessly. I built this machine for gaming but now I use it as my primary machine and have stopped using my macbook completely. I tried to do linux on the box instead of windows, but I ran into: - No fractional scaling support except for KDE. - I can't for the life of me, stop X from using the discrete Nvidia card (I use AMD integrated for display). It wants to sit on the card even when there are no processes running on it through X. - Wayland fractional scaling is unsupported in chrome and electron still. - No HDR. - Font rendering is painful to look at with fractional scaling. Wasted a LOT of time trying to get this working before giving up and just using WSL2. Everything works in Windows, which is not unexpected. It's amazing already what a community of volunteers is giving me for free!
foul 2y ago
There has to be a ChromeOS good enough for the US military complex (and only available for AWS, GAE, Tencent) to see Microsoft worried. All they're doing is showering MS with cash working with Microsoft sanctioned APIs.
figassis 2y ago
I love when businesses do this. They keep improving their products in their lane, releasing new ones, etc, without anyone noticing a vision, and then, boom, an entire industry gets uncomfortable.
deleted 2y ago
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udev4096 2y ago
BazziteOS is far superior and gets faster updates than SteamOS. It even supports secure boot, FDE and other important security enhancements. SteamOS didn't even had a login mechanism on release
samiv 2y ago
How come this topic dropped off the main page in a flash? One second it was there and then literally a few seconds later it had disappeared... just wondering..
mrayycombi 2y ago
When will gta v online be unbanned from SteamOS? Dammit.
amai 2y ago
"Consumers are ready for a future beyond Windows" That might be true, but businesses and governments are not.
npteljes 2y ago
I think this conflates Microsoft and Windows. SteamOS threatens Windows, maybe, hopefully, but Microsoft is, and has been for a long time much bigger than Windows is.

108 points by dingi 2y ago

Absolutely. I need browser, VLC, IDE and some games. ...only one of those was a linux showstopper.

Anecdotally, the number of people I know who bought a Steam Deck and ended up using it as a docked desktop replacement is now in the upper single digits. All of them are in IT or IT-adjacent, but were not desktop Linux users before, either at work or at home.

ttoinou 2y ago
Knowing 9 person doing that would be a lot, right ? Or was it double digits before ?
internet101010 2y ago
For me it is about having the option to sit at my desk or on the couch with a controller. Saves are synced, there is no an annual subscription, and I don't have a full PC next to my TV. It just sits on a shelf next to the Switch that hasn't been touched in years.

bpoyner 2y ago

I bought my wife a Steam Deck and she loves it, her biggest complaint is that it's a bit too big for women's hands. She isn't highly technical but I haven't had to provide much in the way of assistance, it largely just works.

Kuraj 2y ago
The Steam Deck is HUGE. I thought my Nintendo Switch was big until I got it, but it appears so tiny now in comparison.
- selykg 2y ago
  I don’t mind the size but it does make it prohibitively more difficult to travel with compared to the Switch (slightly) but especially so compared to old handhelds like the DS and Vita. I generally keep my Steam Deck at home and play from the couch. It’s awesome to be able to pick it up, play a game for 15 minutes, hit the power button to suspend. Come back later and pickup where I left off. The Switch does this as well but the Steam Deck supports games more my genre and style so it gets more use.
ropejumper 2y ago
It's a bit big for my hands as well, but the huge touch screen is amazing for programs like sunvox so I don't even mind. I think it's hard to genuinely appreciate how big the thing is until you hold it. Today I realized it's exactly the same size as my keyboard. And almost as wide as a 12-inch macbook.
herpdyderp 2y ago
The size opinion varies dramatically by person, apparently, because everyone I’ve personally talked to (including women) prefers the Steam Deck’s larger size over the Switch. (The Switch is so tiny!)

pixelpoet 2y ago

Microsoft don't give a rat's ass about operating systems since ages, and their policy on no more Windows 10 updates this year will finally push me to Linux (probs ElementaryOS) after a lifetime on DOS/Windows. Visual Studio is also full of AI/Copilot junk now, and I've basically just had enough of their "not now" / "ask me again later please, I am a sucker" options when I really want "be ashamed for asking and never ask me again", all the user-hostile shit they pull... enough is enough.

sho_hn 2y ago
Microsoft's cash cows are increasingly Office 365 and of course Azure. Everything that can serve as an Office 365 client OS is surely fine. A shrinking Windows operation may just save them money in the long run.
andyjohnson0 2y ago
> Microsoft don't give a rat's ass about operating systems since ages I think Microsoft sees Azure as its future, not Windows, and would be generally happy for people to use a thin cloud client rather than an expensive-to-support general-purpose OS. But we are where we are, thankfully. How long it will stay that way, idk. As for VS - yes its annoying but you can turn all that stuff off.
daemin 2y ago
You can uninstall CoPilot from Visual Studio - it's a separate entry in the Visual Studio Installer - and you need to set an option in Visual Studio to hide the buttons. But yes, I am constantly frustrated with the constant pushing in your face of CoPilot features in all Microsoft products - Office and Teams especially so.

foolswisdom 2y ago

It doesn't seem like this challenges anything but the market for gaming devices (not general purpose PCs). Is that correct? And if so, is the title ("terrified") a little overblown?

Kuraj 2y ago
It appears so. Steam OS, at least in the form that exists on my Deck, is not suitable for general purpose. True, it has a desktop environment, but it's "jailed" - of course with an option to jail break it, but anything you do outside of the user space is subject to being wiped the next time you get an OTA update. Then again, OTA updates are necessarily only a thing on the Deck and I suppose this wouldn't be a problem on the Steam OS distribution available for installing on other hardware.
- rollcat 2y ago
  > [...] anything you do outside of the user space is subject to being wiped the next time you get an OTA update. You mean outside of /home? This is actually excellent. Rock solid base OS that can be A/B booted, deliver extra apps via Flatpak/AppImage - this is close to what macOS achieved, minus all the crap Apple has been pulling recently. I'm tempted.
  - NekkoDroid 2y ago
    > You mean outside of /home? More precisely it would be /home and /var. Persistant changes can in theory also be done with systemd-sysext, but it isn't exactly the most user friendly thing currenty. https://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2022/09/13/adding-software-to-the-steam-deck-with-systemd-sysext/ https://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2022/09/13/adding-software-to...
- LinuxBender 2y ago
  Jailed might be OK for the general audience vs technical people but does it come with a package manager that lets you install things such as OpenSSH, assorted open source VPN daemons, email clients, etc... or do such things have to be shimmed in or run from /home or break OS updates? Or do such things have to be purchased or installed through an app store like on cell phones? If so it may still be usable. I rebooted a telco mainframe switch using Telnet from a Nokia 9000 back in the day whilst on call.

r1chardnl 2y ago

I tried to switch to Linux a few times over a couple of years but had a hard time switching from Windows to Linux until I found a replacement for Visual Studio (non-VSCode), which I replaced with VSCode on Linux. Aside from a few games that wouldn't work for any reason (Kernel level anticheat, WINE bugs, manually setting export env variables) it's been great. Being a tinkerer/developer I wonder whether this made it harder or easier to switch, you have more knowledge of how to fix things but the same amount of time as everyone else and if you don't depend on specific programs / workflow like using a browser you may be able make the jump to Linux easier.

abhinavk 2y ago
It's a very interesting observation. IMO people who just use want to use their computer for browser and email stuff are the easiest to migrate to Linux.
- moffkalast 2y ago
  People who just use want to use their computer for browser and email stuff don't need a pc, they need a smartphone dock for a display and keyboard.
dingi 2y ago
Try Jetbrains Rider. I use it almost daily for work. Miles ahead compared to VSCode. There is no free version though.
- Kuraj 2y ago
  If you're ok with running unstable, you can run and use early access builds for free, even commercially
  - eklavya 2y ago
    Last I checked it wasn't true at least for Ultimate, is Rider treated differently?

pjc50 2y ago

Maybe, but we're not quite there yet - Valve still restricting the OS to their hardware. Come back when people who build their own gamer PCs start choosing SteamOS en masse. That's then the start point of a movement away from Windows. I agree that the 10/11 migration has been an infuriating experience for a lot of users. A Microsoft unforced error, seemingly in the name of insisting on forcing TPM on people.

andreime 2y ago
That's incorrect, where did you pick it up? You can install SteamOS on any machine, but AMD GPU are somewhat required if you're not up to major tinkering. Valve does not officially support NVIDIA gpus atm; they are working on it. Here's a video from Linus Tech Tips on how to do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 .
- pjc50 2y ago
  Via original article: https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/7/24338405/valve-steamos-beta-other-handhelds-beyond-steam-deck https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/7/24338405/valve-steamos-bet... (i.e. in the future tense)
  - abhinavk 2y ago
    Not providing official support != Restricting.
    - sho_hn 2y ago
      Valve does still provide official support for Steam, even if you run it on a different set of HW or distribution. Not providing official support for random hardware seems reasonable. Neither do Microsoft nor Apple.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  Easier access to SteamOS images for generic HW also appears to be in the works: > Ahead of Legion Go S shipping, we will be shipping a beta of SteamOS which should improve the experience on other handhelds, and users can download and test this themselves. And of course we'll continue adding support and improving the experience with future releases. Source: https://store.steampowered.com/news/collection/steam/?emclan=103582791457287600&emgid=529834914570306831 https://store.steampowered.com/news/collection/steam/?emclan...

madeofpalk 2y ago

Does Microsoft make money from consumer gaming OS sales? Is there an onroad from that market to others -does there enterprise sales rely on gamers getting jobs and demanding microsoft? I think the author vastly overestimates how much of a market this actually is.

Sayrus 2y ago
You don't always make money because you sell to a specific customer. Sometimes it's about support and network effect. Devices (Scanners, Printers, ...) are compatible with Windows and sometimes only Windows because that's what people use, NVIDIA drivers used to be Windows only because that's where customers were. Does Microsoft make money from these sales? No. Do they make money from having an ecosystem that everyone is supporting? Most definitely.
- rabf 2y ago
  Nvidia has had support for linux since 1999!
SmallDeadGuy 2y ago
I think they make a bunch of money having Windows being the default installed OS on prebuilt PCs and laptops. Gaming PCs and laptops are a pretty large market included in that. There's a chance vendors/builders might start to sell cheaper options which don't include Windows installed, savings for both them and the customers. Will have to see if that actually happens though, even as a power user myself there are still a bunch of pain points with SteamOS/steam deck that are harder to deal with than similar issues in Windows.
brokencode 2y ago
They make money from lots of random stuff that they advertise in Windows. The Edge browser for instance, which pushes Bing. Also, office applications like Word, OneNote, and OneDrive. They’ve got an app store as well, which is not much used, though probably does bring them some money. I think they show ads by default in the start menu. Pretty sure it even comes with certain third party applications, like Netflix, which they are no doubt paid for.

bluetrolliage 2y ago

I’m curious how much msft makes in windows from gamers vs actual game sales. They seem to be hedging their bets hard on cloud gaming and actual game sales for Xbox.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
I assume selling Windows to consumers at the retail price is a loss maker to Microsoft and they make up for it via the ads and product monetization or subsidized from enterprise subscriptions. Looking at the data, in 1995 Microsoft charge consumers $210 for a retail copy of Windows 95. That's $434 in today's money adjusted for inflation. Windows XP Home retailed for $200 at launch, which is $356 in today's money. Meanwhile Windows 11 Home today retails for significantly cheaper at $140 for a product that's hugely more complex than Win 95 or Win XP were, while requiring way more staff and dev effort to build and support. The finances just don't work out for me to see how the sale of a Windows 11 copy alone for $140 could make a profit at price given the 10 year lifecycle dev and support of a major Windows version. I would guess a copy of Windows today would have to be sold for probably $500+ in order to be remotely profitable for Microsoft without ads or promotions, which no consumer would ever pay so I assume Microsoft is subsidizing it with ads/data collection or even taking a loss just to keep the retail price low to avoid loosing market share to Linux.
- 573v14n7 2y ago
  That would be true if the sales volumes remained static, but somehow you seem to have missed the fact that there are somewhat more Windows licensees today than there were in 1995. Also, you're discounting the enormous differences between Windows 95 and its predecessor, versus the relatively small differences between Windows 11 and its direct predecessor. A difference so small that Microsoft initially intended to market Windows 11 as a new version of Windows 10. Other than those two massive, almost insurmountably significant errors, your reasoning was sound.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >Also, you're discounting the enormous differences between Windows 95 and its predecessor, versus the relatively small differences between Windows 11 and its direct predecessor. You're omitting the fact that earlier versions of Windows were more or less a one and done deal and not required massive continued development and updates modern Windows requires. Plus the much more numerous workforce Microsoft has on the payroll now versus back in those days on the Windows teams. Your argument is factless and only based on the subjective opinion of "Windows 11 doesn't seem to different to me compared to Windows 10, so it can't cost too much to develop" which is silly and childish and shows your lack of understanding here.

poulpy123 2y ago

It's funny because the real danger for Microsoft is of course Apple (and maybe some chinese company but I'm not familiar enough).

Daneel_ 2y ago
How so? Because younger kids are using more macs and will want to take that into the workplace? Microsoft has the enterprise virtually locked up still. I don’t see most companies offering macbooks as an option. Linux though? My former university uses it as their desktop OS on all machines. I really do think Linux is the threat, not apple.
- poulpy123 2y ago
  Because Apple has the money, the knowledge, control all the chain from the hardware to the software, and is a trendy company.
- reginald78 2y ago
  I'd say they're more a threat because of iOS than macs. This thread is replete with everyone ignoring that your average laptop/desktop user who wasn't much of a gamer probably abandoned laptop/desktops for a mobile phone only life years ago. PC Gamers may well be the largest remaining consumer segment on Windows but that segment pales in comparison to the corporate space where Windows is going to remain strong for the foreseeable future.
ozornin 2y ago
I don't believe Apple is ever going to compete with MS in government sector nor in classic corporate
- philistine 2y ago
  Sure, but if Microsoft is relegated to corporate, they'll make money hand over fist but Windows will lose all relevance for future growth. Like IBM.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

If Valve went for the corporate market, then, maybe, yes, but I think MSFT has always made most of its OS money on corporate stuff (home users often use Windows, because that's what they work with). Gaming isn't really a thing, with corporate use. I use a Mac. Macs are some of the worst gaming platforms on Earth. If I'm lucky enough to get an AAA game, it's seven years behind its PC version, and a huge bug farm. SteamOS might actually get me to consider a console, but gaming hasn't ever really been a priority for me (obv.).

iterance 2y ago
You're right in the short term, but in the long term (decade+), the home and corporate markets are symbiotic. People buy for the office the tools they expect employees to be comfortable and familiar with. It's not the only factor in consideration, but it's a significant one. Any meaningful erosion in employees' understanding of how to use Windows, in the long term (definitely not the short term), poses a threat. Microsoft has a very long time to respond, tho, and that assumes Valve even prioritizes a general use OS. This problem is not urgent, if it is real at all.

herpdyderp 2y ago

> It’s possible… the Steam Deck is now the most popular gaming PC in the world. This is completely absurd. If you look at Steam’s own hardware survey Windows still has 96% user share. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...

cube2222 2y ago
You literally skipped the part of the sentence making it not absurd - "in terms of single-device volume".
- paxys 2y ago
  And you skipped the "we don't actually know because Valve hasn't released any numbers" part. Basically they pulled the claim out of their ass.
  - hbn 2y ago
    Is there any possible second contender even? In terms of single-device gaming PCs it seems like it's cornered the market. Everything else is random gaming PCs made for moms to buy for their 9-year-olds which no one could name, people making their own PCs from parts, unnamed prebuilts (again, made from off-the-shelf parts), and the Steam Deck's competition which are obviously playing catchup. Steam Deck is probably the closest that market has to an "iPhone."
    - paxys 2y ago
      The thing is every PC is a "gaming PC". The only distinction is how powerful you make it. And PC manufacturers generally sell a line of laptops/desktops branded for gaming. I found random numbers from 2021, where Lenovo said that they sell over a million of their Legion gaming laptops every year (https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-legion-goes-all-out-new-futuristic-gaming-machines/ https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-legi...). Has Steam Deck sold more than a few million since it launched in 2022? Unlikely.

paxys 2y ago

I read all the same articles word for word in 2013 when SteamOS first launched. Yes more games are playable on Linux today because of Proton, but everything else is still a mess. You still can't stream video >720p from any major streaming service, for example. I don't see people rushing to put SteamOS on their PCs or entertainment centers while these basic gaps still exist.

baobun 2y ago
> You still can't stream video >720p from any major streaming service, for example Say what? I'm playing 1080p fine. Sounds like you could be bit by drm ("that's not a bug, it's a feature"). If so the issue lies with your streaming service - some withhold bitrates unless they detect a "trusted" browser and OS (ie you'd have to fake Edge on Windows User-Agent at least). https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1700815 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1700815
- npteljes 2y ago
  This sentiment misses the point. It's not that Linux is not capable - it's plenty capable, and has been for decades now. It's that support for it is lacking. The lack of support makes Linux look bad, because, from the perspective of the end user, it doesn't matter who actually is responsible for the failure of something. If negative experience comes after installing X, then surely X is to blame, right? Wrong, as we both know, but this is the experience that needs to be managed, in order to make Linux successful. Entities who managed this experience made commercially successful Linuxes - Red Hat, Canonical, Google, and Steam as well.
redserk 2y ago
I think there's a few things to consider though: 1. Not all gamers use the features that may be annoying to use on Linux. Anecdotally, only a handful of friends use streaming and most of the time it's to play party games. 2. I think you're understating the impact of the growth of game playability now versus 2013. While the Wine developers deserve unbound praise for their impressive work, I would not say Wine in 2013 was truly viable for gaming. There were wikis with compatibility information but it was a mixed bag. Sometimes newer versions would break what was already working and it's unreasonable to expect volunteers to test every game on every version of Wine. Sometimes you had to copy DLLs from a Windows box and do all sorts of kludges to get things working. 3. Steam puts compatibilty information right next to the game before you buy. It sounds like you can request a refund if it won't run. To me, this gives a lot more confidence in Valve's vision as they're putting their money where their mouth is. 4. Most importantly, the Steam Deck now exists as something you can hold in your hands to see the viability of certain games on SteamOS. Many gamers have heard of the Steam Deck or even know someone who owns one. In 2013 there could be all sorts of hardware compatibility reasons why SteamOS wouldn't work or wouldn't be viable. It was too easy to dismiss before you'd even start touching a game. Now? The Steam Deck standardized the hardware side of the equation so the feasibility conversation starts with game compatibility.

n144q 2y ago

No, the premise is wrong. > That could threaten Microsoft's hold on PC gaming Sure. But so what. PC gaming is a very small market that Microsoft don't actually care much about. Well, they have a Windows store that sells games, a Windows xbox app and PC game pass, and they put a bit of effort here and there, but not really. Microsoft doesn't really care about your Windows license key either. They could have made pirating much harder, but the fact that you can find Windows activator on their own GitHub says that Microsoft thinks it's a waste of time to do anything about it. (In fact, Windows license is free on handheld gaming devices. So Microsoft doesn't earn any money anyway. https://windowsreport.com/windows-10-9-remains-free-oems-anniversary-update/ https://windowsreport.com/windows-10-9-remains-free-oems-ann...) Most of Windows installations come from OEM and enterprises. Everything else is a marginal error. They also can't sell (much) more licenses just as they want, because pretty much it's tied to PC sales that's more about whether people are buying devices. Which is why they are stuffing ads everywhere in Windows. It sucks for users, but is a good (short sighted) business strategy -- you can only earn so much money from license, but you can earn infinite money from ads. Seems hard for people to understand this.

mariusor 2y ago
> PC gaming is a very small market... and PC game pass I think you're very much wrong. The game pass market is said to have ~30 million users. Having them be able to play on PC is probably quite important as not everyone can afford an extra Xbox if they already have a computer.
- n144q 2y ago
  Your argument is not very convincing unless you can show numbers of people who have an Game Pass Ultimate subscription and use it for PC gaming. > not everyone can afford an extra Xbox if they already have a computer Gaming PCs are much, much more expensive than consoles at same performance. Most people have consoles and no gaming PC. In markets where that's not the case (e.g. China), game pass and Xbox in general happen to be also less relevant -- if they get a console, they'll get a PS5.
  - 2y ago

jimnotgym 2y ago

Until SteamOS gets MS office and comprehensive Active Directory integration, I think it will have almost zero penetratation into the corporate PC market

lordfrito 2y ago

PC gaming is one of the few places left that Windows has any relevance, without that there very few reasons to continue running Windows. Sales volumes for general purpose PCs (used by people other than gaming and developers) have been declining for years. If you don't need Windows to game... and you don't need Windows to run office anymore (office 365).. then the only real reason to run windows would be to run VisualStudio and other legacy dev tools? Linux is looking more and more attractive to the power user base. I'm a power user that games... so Windows it is. For now. The moment I don't need Windows to game, and Wine can run all my legacy apps, then I'm jumping ship to Linux. Consumers have moved on and all that's left in terms of volume are businesses that need a stock general purpose desktop -- legacy lives on for a while but not forever. This might be the beginning of the end for Windows -- I'm speaking in terms of product lifecycle.

robertlagrant 2y ago
I think this is a big leap. Organisations worldwide use Windows. Office 365 is not a good replacement for Office on-device, and I bet it will never be. I'm a big fan of this happening, but I don't think this is the nail in the coffin. It definitely is a nail, and I use Steam on Linux happily, but not the nail.
- lordfrito 2y ago
  Agreed... still a pretty big nail. A turning point. The loss of gaming definitely marks the beginning of the end of Windows as a consumer OS. Windows future might be relegated to a platform to run Microsoft business apps and dev tools. Considering Windows is the most anti-consumer mainstream OS out there -- if Windows becomes a "business OS" then I wonder what happens to all the telemetry and other anti-consumer stuff they've added over the years? Seems like a fork in the road for Windows product planning.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    I would say - it's still not a loss. Not every game is available on Linux, at all, or if it is it's not very easy for a regular person, or if it is there might still be a better experience on Windows. It's amazing progress, but it's a long way off what you're describing.

cube2222 2y ago

Very much agreed with SteamOS possibly occupying a lot of gaming PC market share in the not-too-distant future (though not sure if Microsoft cares/should care too much about that). However, I expect that this process will still take a while. Proton seems to be working well esp. for single-player games (haven't tried it yet though), but it seems like - DLSS-like features still have some way to go, - and a lot of multiplayer games require kernel-level anti-cheat which is often developed for windows only. Those two are I believe the only remaining blockers for me. But that's a chicken-and-egg problem, same as native (non-proton) support for games on Linux. Once SteamOS is big enough, I expect those to quickly follow.

jerojero 2y ago

I really want to install steamOS on my gaming laptop, but it has an NVIDIA card. So, I'll be waiting for a while until that kind of support happens. It's not a big issue but I'm really sick of windows. Even though my laptop is much more powerful I find myself constantly using the steam deck because the thought of booting up windows, closing up all the apps that open, trying to get it to connect to the tv... It's a lot. For work and general use I have a MacBook, happy with it for that purpose.

eklavya 2y ago

I started using Windows fully after like 15 years. I really like Windows 11 after running the debloater. WSL2 seems to work pretty seamlessly. I built this machine for gaming but now I use it as my primary machine and have stopped using my macbook completely. I tried to do linux on the box instead of windows, but I ran into: - No fractional scaling support except for KDE. - I can't for the life of me, stop X from using the discrete Nvidia card (I use AMD integrated for display). It wants to sit on the card even when there are no processes running on it through X. - Wayland fractional scaling is unsupported in chrome and electron still. - No HDR. - Font rendering is painful to look at with fractional scaling. Wasted a LOT of time trying to get this working before giving up and just using WSL2. Everything works in Windows, which is not unexpected. It's amazing already what a community of volunteers is giving me for free!

foul 2y ago

There has to be a ChromeOS good enough for the US military complex (and only available for AWS, GAE, Tencent) to see Microsoft worried. All they're doing is showering MS with cash working with Microsoft sanctioned APIs.

figassis 2y ago

I love when businesses do this. They keep improving their products in their lane, releasing new ones, etc, without anyone noticing a vision, and then, boom, an entire industry gets uncomfortable.

deleted 2y ago

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udev4096 2y ago

BazziteOS is far superior and gets faster updates than SteamOS. It even supports secure boot, FDE and other important security enhancements. SteamOS didn't even had a login mechanism on release

samiv 2y ago

How come this topic dropped off the main page in a flash? One second it was there and then literally a few seconds later it had disappeared... just wondering..

mrayycombi 2y ago

When will gta v online be unbanned from SteamOS? Dammit.

amai 2y ago

"Consumers are ready for a future beyond Windows" That might be true, but businesses and governments are not.

npteljes 2y ago

I think this conflates Microsoft and Windows. SteamOS threatens Windows, maybe, hopefully, but Microsoft is, and has been for a long time much bigger than Windows is.