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>You need to convince other people single payer health care is the right policy. I think we've effectively already done that. What people actually want does no

>You need to convince other people single payer health care is the right policy. I think we've effectively already done that. What people actually want does not impact the way in which our government functions, despite popular belief. The people in this country have absolutely no power and are tired of it. You can't vote out a parasitic system that exists only to extract as much from you as possible. The people who "represent" us only focus on culture war bullshit INTENTIONALLY, to distract from the fact that the one of two preselected candidates we have basically represent the same despicable capitalists and their same interests of stripping us of everything you have so they can have more shit they don't need, while the rest of us are fighting over their droppings.

bigstrat2003 2y ago
> I think we've effectively already done that. You definitely haven't. Lots of Americans would be deeply unhappy if single payer healthcare were implemented tomorrow. Say what you will about whether they should be convinced, but they haven't been.
- bagels 2y ago
  Who? Insurance employees?
- mw1 2y ago
  The majority is convinced. Nearly 70% support Medicare for All across multiple polls and that’s with the leadership of both major parties, corporate interests, and news media aligned against. https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all/ https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-pol...
imgabe 2y ago
> What people actually want does not impact the way in which our government functions, despite popular belief. The US just elected a president despite a years-long coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear, along with multiple assassination attempts. So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. They just don't happen to want what you think they should want.
- michaelsshaw 2y ago
  And four years before that they elected a literal corpse because they were so sick of Donald Trump. And yet, somehow, the 2024 election was borderline the same. Did literally anyone want Trump v Biden v 2.0? No. Literally nobody wanted that. Did anyone actually want Kamala? No. Literally nobody wanted that. >coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear Donald Trump is the most reported-on person of the past 10 years. This sentence does not make sense. >along with multiple assassination attempts You put this in the same sentence to make it seem like his "assassins" were on the same page as the media. They were not. Both of them were highly ineffective and downright cringey with their plans.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Yet one very nearly succeeded.
- bagels 2y ago
  How do you try to make someone disappear by talking about and showing video of them every day?
  - imgabe 2y ago
    You talk about them as a "threat to democracy" in hopes some homicidal lunatic will take it to heart.
- dqv 2y ago
  > So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. No, it doesn't. Unless what they want aligns with what the ruling class and interest groups want. [0] The propaganda arm of the ruling class, of course, endeavors to get the public on their side precisely because violence ensues when they push too far without public buy-in. [0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/S1537592714001595a.pdf/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...
ZeroGravitas 2y ago
There's research that supports this. The laws that get passed depend on corporate, not public support. It's why academics have been referring to the US as an oligarchy for a while now.
0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
>The people in this country have absolutely no power and are tired of it. You can't vote out a parasitic system that exists only to extract as much from you as possible. The people who "represent" us only focus on culture war bullshit INTENTIONALLY, to distract from the fact that the one of two preselected candidates we have basically represent the same despicable capitalists and their same interests of stripping us of everything you have so they can have more shit they don't need, while the rest of us are fighting over their droppings. I miss old-school conspiracy theorists like Ron Unz who actually have sophisticated arguments for what they believe. The internet is now full of handwavey conspiratorial BS that's "not even wrong". Who is writing all of this stuff? At least the 9/11 truthers made specific false claims.
- michaelsshaw 2y ago
  me: "The rich steal from the poor and use politics to divide and distract them" this guy: "You're literally a 9/11 level conspiracy theorist!!!!!"
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
    Again, the distinction I'm drawing is: 9/11 conspiracy theorists at least tried to present factual arguments for their claims. You haven't done so, and I don't think you ever will. (Insofar as your "claims" can even be hammered down -- they're incredibly vague.) It's not a point in your favor that your flavor of conspiratorial thinking is so widespread despite its thin evidence base. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/america-doesnt-really-have-a-working https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/america-doesnt-really-have-a-w...

bigstrat2003 2y ago

> I think we've effectively already done that. You definitely haven't. Lots of Americans would be deeply unhappy if single payer healthcare were implemented tomorrow. Say what you will about whether they should be convinced, but they haven't been.

bagels 2y ago
Who? Insurance employees?
mw1 2y ago
The majority is convinced. Nearly 70% support Medicare for All across multiple polls and that’s with the leadership of both major parties, corporate interests, and news media aligned against. https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all/ https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-pol...

imgabe 2y ago

> What people actually want does not impact the way in which our government functions, despite popular belief. The US just elected a president despite a years-long coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear, along with multiple assassination attempts. So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. They just don't happen to want what you think they should want.

michaelsshaw 2y ago
And four years before that they elected a literal corpse because they were so sick of Donald Trump. And yet, somehow, the 2024 election was borderline the same. Did literally anyone want Trump v Biden v 2.0? No. Literally nobody wanted that. Did anyone actually want Kamala? No. Literally nobody wanted that. >coordinated media and legal effort to make him disappear Donald Trump is the most reported-on person of the past 10 years. This sentence does not make sense. >along with multiple assassination attempts You put this in the same sentence to make it seem like his "assassins" were on the same page as the media. They were not. Both of them were highly ineffective and downright cringey with their plans.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Yet one very nearly succeeded.
bagels 2y ago
How do you try to make someone disappear by talking about and showing video of them every day?
- imgabe 2y ago
  You talk about them as a "threat to democracy" in hopes some homicidal lunatic will take it to heart.
dqv 2y ago
> So, yes, what the people want does actually matter. No, it doesn't. Unless what they want aligns with what the ruling class and interest groups want. [0] The propaganda arm of the ruling class, of course, endeavors to get the public on their side precisely because violence ensues when they push too far without public buy-in. [0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/S1537592714001595a.pdf/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

There's research that supports this. The laws that get passed depend on corporate, not public support. It's why academics have been referring to the US as an oligarchy for a while now.

0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago

>The people in this country have absolutely no power and are tired of it. You can't vote out a parasitic system that exists only to extract as much from you as possible. The people who "represent" us only focus on culture war bullshit INTENTIONALLY, to distract from the fact that the one of two preselected candidates we have basically represent the same despicable capitalists and their same interests of stripping us of everything you have so they can have more shit they don't need, while the rest of us are fighting over their droppings. I miss old-school conspiracy theorists like Ron Unz who actually have sophisticated arguments for what they believe. The internet is now full of handwavey conspiratorial BS that's "not even wrong". Who is writing all of this stuff? At least the 9/11 truthers made specific false claims.

michaelsshaw 2y ago
me: "The rich steal from the poor and use politics to divide and distract them" this guy: "You're literally a 9/11 level conspiracy theorist!!!!!"
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  Again, the distinction I'm drawing is: 9/11 conspiracy theorists at least tried to present factual arguments for their claims. You haven't done so, and I don't think you ever will. (Insofar as your "claims" can even be hammered down -- they're incredibly vague.) It's not a point in your favor that your flavor of conspiratorial thinking is so widespread despite its thin evidence base. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/america-doesnt-really-have-a-working https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/america-doesnt-really-have-a-w...