4 ms·

why doesn't someone introduce a legislation to tax vacant second homes at astronomical rates

throw5959 2y ago
Do you know who owns most real estate either directly or indirectly? Pension funds. And who wants to shake up their pension? Nobody. It's the most democratized form of asset ownership, literally everybody is going to get angry. And secondly... Are the second vacation homes really the problem? I'd guess the problem begins around 3rd or 5th, not the second one, which is a fairly common and usually also a good thing to have - for both the owner and the society.
- apwell23 2y ago
  not talking about real estate in general. whats the proof that most vacant homes are owned by pension funds ? I don't think so.
- hello_moto 2y ago
  Second vacation homes (plus Airbnb) become a problem for locals of that area. The young ones can't survive there and eventually have to rent (or provided as comp package) from established businesses (B&B/hotel).
- radlad 2y ago
  > And secondly... Are the second vacation homes really the problem? I'd guess the problem begins around 3rd or 5th, not the second one, which is a fairly common and usually also a good thing to have - for both the owner and the society. I'm not sure if you mean owning one primary home and two vacation homes, or one primary home and one vacation home when you mention a "second vacation home," but either way this strikes me as out of touch. In 2024, US home ownership rate is 65.6%. (https://www.bankrate.com/homeownership/home-ownership-statistics/ https://www.bankrate.com/homeownership/home-ownership-statis...) In 2022, 4.6% of housing was comprised of second homes. (https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/09/the-nations-stock-of-second-homes-2/ https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/09/the-nations-stock-of-second...) 4.6% of 65.6% is 3%, meaning at most 3% of Americans own a second home (but this doesn't account for citizens that own 3 or more homes, so the actual percentage is even lower.) I don't consider that to be common. I also wonder: why is it a good thing for society (or even most homeowners?)
Der_Einzige 2y ago
Do you like all your Capital fleeing to other countries? Because that's how you enrich Canada, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichenstein, etc at the USA's expense.
- _whiteCaps_ 2y ago
  https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/speculation-vacancy-tax/how-tax-works/tax-rates https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/speculation-vacancy... We already have speculation tax in Canada.
nico 2y ago
They did this in the UK. A quick lookup says that a home that is vacant for over 1 year could be taxed 4x Additionally, since 2004, there’s a law that allows local authorities to take over empty homes and sell them, to make sure they are used for housing Not sure what the effects have been of either
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
> why doesn't someone introduce a legislation to tax vacant second homes at astronomical rates They tried this in China. People would just get divorced so each partner had their own home. It turns out you can easily find someone in your family to "buy" a house as well.
- apwell23 2y ago
  Vacant home doesn't mean a house with no owner. I am not sure how getting divorced makes vacant home occupied.
  - Tade0 2y ago
    Vacancy is hard to prove and typically proxies like water usage or having lights on are used, but they're inaccurate.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    if someone shows up there 3-4 days a week, how would you know? Even China doesn't have the surveillance setup to tell if someone is living in a house or not (well, they can check to see if it is renovated, and can check to see if the lights turn on at night). It isn't really a rule of law society, so you can't use "the trust but sometimes verify system" they used in Vancouver, and it is definitely not like Switzerland where your neighbors are constantly spying on you. It is a bit counter intuitive, but checking on these things is harder in China than in the west.
    - apwell23 2y ago
      > if someone shows up there 3-4 days a week, how would you know? Its the same thing as taxes. No one is stopping you from making up fake receipts. But you don't do that because its fraud.
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Why? Because politicians aren't generally in the habit of introducing legislation that pisses in the face of the folks that fund their election campaigns. Oligarchy's a bitch.
bluGill 2y ago
We did that long ago - well the rates are not astronomical, but taxes are higher. Some states (probably all but I don't know how to look this up) have a homestead credit, and they date back to the 1800s. One thing missing - renters cannot homestead their apartment and so the funds that own the apartment have to charge more rent to cover taxes on those apartments.
freedomben 2y ago
This becomes devastating to people who are trying to sell the "second" home in a market where it often takes months to get sold.
- apwell23 2y ago
  fuck them!!
  - tomrod 2y ago
    Because they want to sell an asset? That seems myopic.

Do you know who owns most real estate either directly or indirectly? Pension funds. And who wants to shake up their pension? Nobody. It's the most democratized form of asset ownership, literally everybody is going to get angry. And secondly... Are the second vacation homes really the problem? I'd guess the problem begins around 3rd or 5th, not the second one, which is a fairly common and usually also a good thing to have - for both the owner and the society.

apwell23 2y ago
not talking about real estate in general. whats the proof that most vacant homes are owned by pension funds ? I don't think so.
hello_moto 2y ago
Second vacation homes (plus Airbnb) become a problem for locals of that area. The young ones can't survive there and eventually have to rent (or provided as comp package) from established businesses (B&B/hotel).
radlad 2y ago
> And secondly... Are the second vacation homes really the problem? I'd guess the problem begins around 3rd or 5th, not the second one, which is a fairly common and usually also a good thing to have - for both the owner and the society. I'm not sure if you mean owning one primary home and two vacation homes, or one primary home and one vacation home when you mention a "second vacation home," but either way this strikes me as out of touch. In 2024, US home ownership rate is 65.6%. (https://www.bankrate.com/homeownership/home-ownership-statistics/ https://www.bankrate.com/homeownership/home-ownership-statis...) In 2022, 4.6% of housing was comprised of second homes. (https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/09/the-nations-stock-of-second-homes-2/ https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/09/the-nations-stock-of-second...) 4.6% of 65.6% is 3%, meaning at most 3% of Americans own a second home (but this doesn't account for citizens that own 3 or more homes, so the actual percentage is even lower.) I don't consider that to be common. I also wonder: why is it a good thing for society (or even most homeowners?)

Der_Einzige 2y ago

Do you like all your Capital fleeing to other countries? Because that's how you enrich Canada, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichenstein, etc at the USA's expense.

_whiteCaps_ 2y ago
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/speculation-vacancy-tax/how-tax-works/tax-rates https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/speculation-vacancy... We already have speculation tax in Canada.

nico 2y ago

They did this in the UK. A quick lookup says that a home that is vacant for over 1 year could be taxed 4x Additionally, since 2004, there’s a law that allows local authorities to take over empty homes and sell them, to make sure they are used for housing Not sure what the effects have been of either

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

> why doesn't someone introduce a legislation to tax vacant second homes at astronomical rates They tried this in China. People would just get divorced so each partner had their own home. It turns out you can easily find someone in your family to "buy" a house as well.

apwell23 2y ago
Vacant home doesn't mean a house with no owner. I am not sure how getting divorced makes vacant home occupied.
- Tade0 2y ago
  Vacancy is hard to prove and typically proxies like water usage or having lights on are used, but they're inaccurate.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  if someone shows up there 3-4 days a week, how would you know? Even China doesn't have the surveillance setup to tell if someone is living in a house or not (well, they can check to see if it is renovated, and can check to see if the lights turn on at night). It isn't really a rule of law society, so you can't use "the trust but sometimes verify system" they used in Vancouver, and it is definitely not like Switzerland where your neighbors are constantly spying on you. It is a bit counter intuitive, but checking on these things is harder in China than in the west.
  - apwell23 2y ago
    > if someone shows up there 3-4 days a week, how would you know? Its the same thing as taxes. No one is stopping you from making up fake receipts. But you don't do that because its fraud.

forgetfreeman 2y ago

Why? Because politicians aren't generally in the habit of introducing legislation that pisses in the face of the folks that fund their election campaigns. Oligarchy's a bitch.

bluGill 2y ago

We did that long ago - well the rates are not astronomical, but taxes are higher. Some states (probably all but I don't know how to look this up) have a homestead credit, and they date back to the 1800s. One thing missing - renters cannot homestead their apartment and so the funds that own the apartment have to charge more rent to cover taxes on those apartments.

freedomben 2y ago

This becomes devastating to people who are trying to sell the "second" home in a market where it often takes months to get sold.

apwell23 2y ago
fuck them!!
- tomrod 2y ago
  Because they want to sell an asset? That seems myopic.