4 ms·

the most importat skills to learn: 1. Sales = learn to knock on a 100 doors to get one sale. 2. Marketing = learn to communicate your value prop to specific c

the most importat skills to learn: 1. Sales = learn to knock on a 100 doors to get one sale. 2. Marketing = learn to communicate your value prop to specific companeis and hiring managers. 3. Delviery = learn to deliver products/projects end to end with all the management that goes in between. If you know all 3 you'll never be in a position where you don't have income. It takes about 4 years to really get a grasp of all 3 so start now ... don't just do a 8 hour job and go home and watch tv. Keep trying to sell your services to others ... at least 2-3 hours after work to other companies/startups/other industries. Its a big world - smeone needs your services - your survival depends on finding those people nad packaging your skilsl so that they buy.

rwyinuse 2y ago
Good advice if you don't have a family. Utterly impossible for someone with small kids and a wife who is also working.
- travelthrowaway 2y ago
  time-management and sleep deprivation, should write a book with that title 0600 - 0900 Your project 0900 - 1600 Corporate job 1700 - 2100 Family & free time (you need to learn how to make the most of it so that you can recharge as well) 2100 - 2300 The low-CPU low demanding part of managing a business paired with some interesting background content goes here
  - creativenolo 2y ago
    4 hours in the evening, nicely compartmentalised. If only. Where are the wake ups, the pickups & drops, the tidying, the admin, etc.
    - jodleif 2y ago
      Yeah it’s pretty simple. Just teach your kids to walk and the importance of no sleep interruptions, then they can get themselves to kindergarten and make their own food. /s
  - coldtea 2y ago
    >2100 - 2300 Yeah, your kids are gonna love that quality 21:00-23:00 time...
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      I think it's meant to be Family 17-21
    - ropejumper 2y ago
      The formatting is off, family time is 17:00-21:00 in GP's comment.
  - nunobrito 2y ago
    Some people will criticize but I follow a similar time management schedule. It was only when I've built my first startup that many of those skills had to be learned and to be quite frank, I only wish to have started earlier rather than being throw into for making enough money. Nowadays that schedule is accurate and I'm a family person with two young kids in the house. I just don't wake so early but that is mostly because I keep working on my personal projects until midnight~1 AM. The good thing is that I'm no longer so attached with my employer company. Mismanagement, demotion or those issues don't affect me so personally because my professional value is no longer just defined by the company where I work. My work outside company hours is valued by many others, albeit not profit-driven it serves as a good backup whenever falling into unemployment situations.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      My “backup” is not working 40 hours a week, then working on a side project and sacrificing time with my family and friends, not having time to exercise and travel and just relax. My backup is an always up to date resume with an up to date skill set, and a longer career document, a years worth of expenses in a HYSA in addition to retirement savings, low fixed expenses, and a decent network. I figure in a year someone , somewhere will give me a job or contract. While my wife hasn’t had to work since 2020 at 44 when I was 46, she has kept her CDL so if push comes to shove, she can get a job with the school system as a bus driver for the benefits while I build up an independent consulting clientele. I found a job quickly both in 2023 and last year.
  - mr_mitm 2y ago
    A certain amount of good quality sleep is not optional and sleep deprivation is not sustainable.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      7 hours isn't sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation is..no sleep. Or incredibly little sleep.
      - latexr 2y ago
        Considering the schedule has you stopping one task and one time and starting another exactly seven hours later, that’s not seven hours of sleep. Most people don’t stop a task and immediately fall asleep, or wake up and can start working. That gap means less than seven hours of sleep. And for many people seven hours isn’t enough. Sleep deprivation means not having enough quality sleep, it’s not a single number which can be applied to everyone all the time equally.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        It's a rough schedule. It's not work to the minute of 11:00pm then start unwinding. You might be pretty unwound by 10:30 and then answer a couple of emails before making a hot drink at 10:45 and calling it a night. It seems a bit silly to overly argue how that can't possibly describe a full night's sleep, when it clearly can.
        latexr 2y ago
        > It's a rough schedule. I agree, it is pretty rough, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and don’t think anyone should follow it if they intend to live a full happy life.¹ ¹ I know what you meant, I’m making a joke.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        You're a rough schedule! (I did it.)
  - jajko 2y ago
    You probably don't have kids. Or if you do, that's really low amount of time and overall pretty horrible long term life quality setup, I guess then wife picks up most of family chores. Maybe your career is stellar, added value as a parent and (not only) emotional anchor for your kids... not so much. Where is commute? Corporate jobs in IT are not 8 hours sharp and ciao, there is also lunch break to count in. Also 23-6 means 7 hours of sleep, too little for many. And so on.
    - InitialLastName 2y ago
      > Corporate jobs in IT are not 8 hours sharp and ciao He doesn't even have 8 hours there for the corporate job.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  Having a wife who is working takes some of the financial pressure off. My children were four and eight when I started my business and it wasn't a problem at all. In fact I would say it made many things easier because I had a more flexible schedule.
  - benhurmarcel 2y ago
    This thread is about doing this on the side, while still keeping a full time job.
ffsm8 2y ago
This will not work if the status quo actually changes to a degree that a significant portion of developers have to do this. It'd very quickly saturate the people willing to give you a chance. This was a good advice 10-2 yrs ago, but going forward? We'll have to see, but my gut says this will become just as likely to succeed as becoming a successful influencer... By which I mean that a few will occasionally make it/succeed, but it'll only be such a low fraction of the people trying for it that it rounds to 0.0%. and the ones succeeding will generally have been able to leverage an opportunity that most trying the same never had. (Not to discourage people from trying - without an attempt you won't even have the chance to grasp such an opportunity. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of an observer)
scarface_74 2y ago
Yes is just that easy. You don’t actually have to have anything to sell. If that’s all it takes, why do only 1 in 10 startups succeed and that isn’t even counting all of the people who are struggling in obscurity.
- coldtea 2y ago
  ...they didn't learn to sell well enough /s
- keeptrying 2y ago
  Start with ecommerece. Buy on Alibaba for $200 and sell it.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Anything easy to do margins tend toward $0.
    - keeptrying 2y ago
      Dude just try. Stop talking yourself out of everything!
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        I have a good paying job. But everyone is talking about “This one Trick” that will make as much as even an entry level CRUD developer.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
latexr 2y ago
> It takes about 4 years to really get a grasp of all 3 so start now That 4 years number sounds like an ass pull. What’s your source? Everyone is different and some of those skills come naturally to some people, so I sincerely doubt that number is even close to universal. Honestly, your whole suggestion seems straight out of one of those generic self-help scams that ignore the realities of life and always blame the user: “You gotta do the thing. If you’re not successful it’s because you didn’t want it enough, not because we’re dispelling the same dated advice to everyone”. Note I don’t think that’s what you’re doing, you’re not selling anything. I’m just saying I question the helpfulness and quality of the advice.
- keeptrying 2y ago
  Buy $200 of anything from Alibaba. Sell online. Max Cost of experiment: $200 + hours put in. You'll learn to sell. None of my advice is expensive in time or money. But it requires effort and ability to learn from failure. The learning from failure is the key part. Everything else is just qualia.
  - kcb 2y ago
    Just get a second job at Walmart. Same quality of advice. Anyway, the real advice is not to always preemptively work a second job. It's use your high engineering salary for as long as you have it to save, save, save and invest, invest, invest. This is how you shield yourself.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    And will your advice make enough to pay the average person’s bills?
    - zelda420 2y ago
      Why do you hate the idea of someone trying to start a new business so much that you make 15+ comments on this thread? This is ycombinator, you know the startup accelerator.

rwyinuse 2y ago

Good advice if you don't have a family. Utterly impossible for someone with small kids and a wife who is also working.

travelthrowaway 2y ago
time-management and sleep deprivation, should write a book with that title 0600 - 0900 Your project 0900 - 1600 Corporate job 1700 - 2100 Family & free time (you need to learn how to make the most of it so that you can recharge as well) 2100 - 2300 The low-CPU low demanding part of managing a business paired with some interesting background content goes here
- creativenolo 2y ago
  4 hours in the evening, nicely compartmentalised. If only. Where are the wake ups, the pickups & drops, the tidying, the admin, etc.
  - jodleif 2y ago
    Yeah it’s pretty simple. Just teach your kids to walk and the importance of no sleep interruptions, then they can get themselves to kindergarten and make their own food. /s
- coldtea 2y ago
  >2100 - 2300 Yeah, your kids are gonna love that quality 21:00-23:00 time...
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    I think it's meant to be Family 17-21
  - ropejumper 2y ago
    The formatting is off, family time is 17:00-21:00 in GP's comment.
- nunobrito 2y ago
  Some people will criticize but I follow a similar time management schedule. It was only when I've built my first startup that many of those skills had to be learned and to be quite frank, I only wish to have started earlier rather than being throw into for making enough money. Nowadays that schedule is accurate and I'm a family person with two young kids in the house. I just don't wake so early but that is mostly because I keep working on my personal projects until midnight~1 AM. The good thing is that I'm no longer so attached with my employer company. Mismanagement, demotion or those issues don't affect me so personally because my professional value is no longer just defined by the company where I work. My work outside company hours is valued by many others, albeit not profit-driven it serves as a good backup whenever falling into unemployment situations.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    My “backup” is not working 40 hours a week, then working on a side project and sacrificing time with my family and friends, not having time to exercise and travel and just relax. My backup is an always up to date resume with an up to date skill set, and a longer career document, a years worth of expenses in a HYSA in addition to retirement savings, low fixed expenses, and a decent network. I figure in a year someone , somewhere will give me a job or contract. While my wife hasn’t had to work since 2020 at 44 when I was 46, she has kept her CDL so if push comes to shove, she can get a job with the school system as a bus driver for the benefits while I build up an independent consulting clientele. I found a job quickly both in 2023 and last year.
- mr_mitm 2y ago
  A certain amount of good quality sleep is not optional and sleep deprivation is not sustainable.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    7 hours isn't sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation is..no sleep. Or incredibly little sleep.
    - latexr 2y ago
      Considering the schedule has you stopping one task and one time and starting another exactly seven hours later, that’s not seven hours of sleep. Most people don’t stop a task and immediately fall asleep, or wake up and can start working. That gap means less than seven hours of sleep. And for many people seven hours isn’t enough. Sleep deprivation means not having enough quality sleep, it’s not a single number which can be applied to everyone all the time equally.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        It's a rough schedule. It's not work to the minute of 11:00pm then start unwinding. You might be pretty unwound by 10:30 and then answer a couple of emails before making a hot drink at 10:45 and calling it a night. It seems a bit silly to overly argue how that can't possibly describe a full night's sleep, when it clearly can.
        latexr 2y ago
        > It's a rough schedule. I agree, it is pretty rough, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and don’t think anyone should follow it if they intend to live a full happy life.¹ ¹ I know what you meant, I’m making a joke.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        You're a rough schedule! (I did it.)
- jajko 2y ago
  You probably don't have kids. Or if you do, that's really low amount of time and overall pretty horrible long term life quality setup, I guess then wife picks up most of family chores. Maybe your career is stellar, added value as a parent and (not only) emotional anchor for your kids... not so much. Where is commute? Corporate jobs in IT are not 8 hours sharp and ciao, there is also lunch break to count in. Also 23-6 means 7 hours of sleep, too little for many. And so on.
  - InitialLastName 2y ago
    > Corporate jobs in IT are not 8 hours sharp and ciao He doesn't even have 8 hours there for the corporate job.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
tonyedgecombe 2y ago
Having a wife who is working takes some of the financial pressure off. My children were four and eight when I started my business and it wasn't a problem at all. In fact I would say it made many things easier because I had a more flexible schedule.
- benhurmarcel 2y ago
  This thread is about doing this on the side, while still keeping a full time job.

ffsm8 2y ago

This will not work if the status quo actually changes to a degree that a significant portion of developers have to do this. It'd very quickly saturate the people willing to give you a chance. This was a good advice 10-2 yrs ago, but going forward? We'll have to see, but my gut says this will become just as likely to succeed as becoming a successful influencer... By which I mean that a few will occasionally make it/succeed, but it'll only be such a low fraction of the people trying for it that it rounds to 0.0%. and the ones succeeding will generally have been able to leverage an opportunity that most trying the same never had. (Not to discourage people from trying - without an attempt you won't even have the chance to grasp such an opportunity. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of an observer)

scarface_74 2y ago

Yes is just that easy. You don’t actually have to have anything to sell. If that’s all it takes, why do only 1 in 10 startups succeed and that isn’t even counting all of the people who are struggling in obscurity.

coldtea 2y ago
...they didn't learn to sell well enough /s
keeptrying 2y ago
Start with ecommerece. Buy on Alibaba for $200 and sell it.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Anything easy to do margins tend toward $0.
  - keeptrying 2y ago
    Dude just try. Stop talking yourself out of everything!
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      I have a good paying job. But everyone is talking about “This one Trick” that will make as much as even an entry level CRUD developer.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

latexr 2y ago

> It takes about 4 years to really get a grasp of all 3 so start now That 4 years number sounds like an ass pull. What’s your source? Everyone is different and some of those skills come naturally to some people, so I sincerely doubt that number is even close to universal. Honestly, your whole suggestion seems straight out of one of those generic self-help scams that ignore the realities of life and always blame the user: “You gotta do the thing. If you’re not successful it’s because you didn’t want it enough, not because we’re dispelling the same dated advice to everyone”. Note I don’t think that’s what you’re doing, you’re not selling anything. I’m just saying I question the helpfulness and quality of the advice.

keeptrying 2y ago
Buy $200 of anything from Alibaba. Sell online. Max Cost of experiment: $200 + hours put in. You'll learn to sell. None of my advice is expensive in time or money. But it requires effort and ability to learn from failure. The learning from failure is the key part. Everything else is just qualia.
- kcb 2y ago
  Just get a second job at Walmart. Same quality of advice. Anyway, the real advice is not to always preemptively work a second job. It's use your high engineering salary for as long as you have it to save, save, save and invest, invest, invest. This is how you shield yourself.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  And will your advice make enough to pay the average person’s bills?
  - zelda420 2y ago
    Why do you hate the idea of someone trying to start a new business so much that you make 15+ comments on this thread? This is ycombinator, you know the startup accelerator.